so. what is a Tamahagane steel knife like?

[boomchakabowwow]

last night I had a difficult time falling asleep. so I turned on YouTube. I see a video where a Japanese knife maker is pouring black sand into a barrel full of hot charcoal to melt it into what looked like a meteor chunk. turns out he is melting Iron Sand!! they were filtering it with a hand held magnet!!

I was mesmerized by the process. but I wasn't sleepy enough to NOT think, "oh..looks expensive!"

very cool. very very cool. I'd probably never own one with my humble salary, so I figured I'd ask some of you. anyone have one?

 

[Corradobrit1]

last night I had a difficult time falling asleep. so I turned on YouTube. I see a video where a Japanese knife maker is pouring black sand into a barrel full of hot charcoal to melt it into what looked like a meteor chunk. turns out he is melting Iron Sand!! they were filtering it with a hand held magnet!!

I was mesmerized by the process. but I wasn't sleepy enough to NOT think, "oh..looks expensive!"

very cool. very very cool. I'd probably never own one with my humble salary, so I figured I'd ask some of you. anyone have one?

Never handled one but the impression I get is that modern carbon and carbon alloy steels are better suited for kitchen knife applications. It's certainly sexy though.

 

[jedy617]

I had one for a short time, a santoku made by a swordsmith. It's cool, but basically a simple carbon steel, probably with a lot more impurities than a factory produced steel. Legend has it that hitachi white 1 is modeled after the best tamahagane.

I would rather get some wootz steel made by Daniel Caubel or Mert Tansu. They are makers also making their own crucible steel but probably to a much higher quality compared to the japanese stuff to be honest. Can be had for under 2k: 240mm fine wootz pattern gyuto

 

[NickMinton]

I have a Tamahagane straight razor and the first heads up I got was “it’s not the best steel for an edge”

Certainly cool to try out if you have a chance but the few examples of knives I’ve seen that use it are $2k or higher

 

[Corradobrit1]

I would rather get some wootz steel made by Daniel Caubel or Mert Tansu.

Thats where I'm at too.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Of course if I had a Jnat fetish (which I don't, honest) then I could see an argument for Tamahagane.

 

[ethompson]

I’ve owned a few and have another one that’s not too far away from being delivered. Fun to play with but at best, Tamahagane is going to be equivalent to good simple carbons. It’s not some mystery super steel.

 

[blokey]

Technically speaking Tamahagane is not going to be better than contemporary blast furnace steel in China, crucible steel in India or later Bessemer process in Europe, it's a more labor intensive way to make purer steel from sand iron, more of a cultural heritage preservation and interesting thing to do.

 

[MowgFace]

In my opinion, you’re paying for the craft of home cooked steel. Not to say it’s scientifically perfect as modern steels, but much more romantic.

I’ve read that Iwasaki chose his spicy white as it was the close to traditional tamahagane. (The steel that Shigefusa and Heiji uses.) Plus, it is full of smoke and mirrors.

 

[billybunka]

Tried a tama knife from Hinoura a few days ago, beautiful knife. Lovely cutter although not sure how it retains edge or feels to sharpen. Also had to pass on 5k price tag. I think in general it’s for the story, aesthetic and tradition over pure function or form. That being said, Hirata swordsmith does do custom tama knives for 800-1500. Fun rabbit hole to fall down ! Cheers

 

[Noodle Soup]

I have a small utility knife I bought off a Japanese maker at the USN knife show in Las Vegas. It works fine and sharpens easy. Wish I could have bought something larger but prices started going up fast when you added length. Mine is around 150mm

 

[SWF]

As far as I know, Tamahagane is difficult to work with as blades can easily break during forging process. Especially thinner double bevel knives. But the result can be an astonishing beautiful, damast like finish if a swordsmith is making them:

 

[ethompson]

With thinner geometry, higher hamon, and higher hardness come increased risk of blade failure - this is true

 

[Rangen]

I have a couple of tamahagane kitchen knives. They are subtly different from the usual steels, but it's something I notice on the stones, not in the kitchen. Compared to my White #2 knives, the steel seems more wear-resistant on the stones, and doesn't have quite the same feel. White #1 has similar qualities, but perhaps more so. So I think I'd describe tamahagane for kitchen knives as, roughly, like White #1.5, in practice.

For razors, I find it easier to make an edge that is both keen and comfortable, than on any other steel. I think I get a bit more edge retention, more shaves before having to hone again, compared to the Swedish Steel that is used in most of my other razors. Almost all of my experience here is with Iwasaki. Again, it's a subtle effect. I have razors with better edge retention (Thiers-Issard C135, Filarmonica), but none with easier-to-achieve comfort.

Mostly, yes, I am caught up in the romance of homemade, traditional steel.

 

[Illyria]

Pain in the ass to make with a lot of chances for it to fail - is a hundred times worse to see than a normal failed blade.

It’s a gorgeous material, though. Also lovely for cladding

^ some of my low layer bloom steel cladding over 52100.

 

[panda]

I would love to try one but not inclined to pay price of admission. research lead me to believe heiji/shigefusa iwasaki steel is similar and that steel is awesome..

I think white1 is the sexiest steel but these days prefer plain old O1 for its durability and edge retention and low reactivity while still feels good on stones.

 

[DanielC]

**I have personally smelted and produced an average of around 2,000 pounds of bloom iron and bloom steel (western Tamahagane) over the past decade, using ores we mined ourself and from different parts of the world. Limonite, magnetite, hematite. You name it. I'm as much of an iron smelter as a wootzsmith.

I just don't use it that much In my prime days of smelting when we were doing 4 smelts a month, I wasn't worried about cladding kitchen knives or making honyaki. It was smelting. Learning it. Eating it. Enjoying it.

My smelting partner (one of the most prolific iron smelters in NA - happened to live 30min from me) is a swordmaker who specializes in early age European swords. It usually takes 20-30 pounds of raw bloom to make 1 sword. He always needs a lot of Bloomery on hand. I learned under him in a sort of apprenticeship-partnership. Basically I am his smelting partner and have ran over 100 smelts from 2012-present day. I've been given recommendation to witness the Shimane Tatara in Japan in the past by a friend and colleague of Akira Kihara.

I'm not really processing much bloomery these days as I'm consumed in other forms of steel making, but i sure as hell bet you guys there will be a nice big ol Gyuto with my name on it, with a sashikomi or hadori polish on it one of these days.

 

[refcast]

There's lotsa sword remnants for sale in Japan, and they're really cheap. . . Mostly lower quality stuff in general -- but definitely a way to try tamahagne.

Otherwise, low carbon tamahagane is like wrought with less inclusions, hopefully.

Edge and in sharpening is mostly like white steel, quite close. At worst, it feels like SK or yellow steel. Seriously, sometimes it does feel like those monosteel SK steel knives. Exclusion is iwasaki tamahagane, which is tamahagne that is (likely) smelted again to remove slag. That feels totally different than all other steels. Feels almost amorphous and the finest steel I've sharpened. Not my favorite edge though, but the easiest to polish and catch hair. I didn't like the shave, for the iwasaki razor i had.

Have tried razors, kanna, kitchen knives, honyaki in tamahagane. Also two vacuum remelt super pure white steel, one by kunio yokoyama and one by tsunesaburo, and raquin sc145

I view tamahagane as art and history

 

[ag36]

As other members has already stated,
not all tamahagne are equal, carbon contents, impurity, how it was forged.

Since cheap, badly made knife would not hold a edge properly and warp(1960s~2000s off brand knives in Japan)

I would assume a good tamahagne is similar to White 1 water honyaki but higher carbon content and little more impurity,
bad ones are worse than yellow steel.

Now let's break down the cost

Perhaps 30%+ failure rate plus the cost for tanto polishing.

White 1 water mirror finished is around 25k jpy so assuming it's double that for failure rate and add bit more for the time consuming tamahagne

Tanto polishing starts at jpy 10000 per son(3 cm) so 300 mm is 100k jpy plus.

Personally I wouldn't buy a tamahagne knive but I can see where the cost was from.