Stäl western knives?

[azn_knives_4l]

Saw these Stäl western profile knives in X50CrMoV15 steel while reading today and couldn't help but wonder about performance compared to Victorinox/Mercer. Any thoughts from owners? Thanks!

https://www.wincous.com/collections/stal-stamped-cutlery

 

[bill_zeng]

I think you shouldn't have high expectations for the performance of mass-produced knives made from X50CrMoV15. These knives are generally made to be very durable, with thicker edges, and they won't be very sharp. The material itself also determines the performance ceiling of these knives. They are just ordinary consumables for the restaurant industry

 

[azn_knives_4l]

I think you shouldn't have high expectations for the performance of mass-produced knives made from X50CrMoV15. These knives are generally made to be very durable, with thicker edges, and they won't be very sharp. The material itself also determines the performance ceiling of these knives. They are just ordinary consumables for the restaurant industry

Sounds about right Just curious because these are 75% cheaper than the Vics

 

[bill_zeng]

Sounds about right Just curious because these are 75% cheaper than the Vics

I couldn't find the price on the website. For commercial purchases, could you disclose the price?

 

[azn_knives_4l]

I couldn't find the price on the website. For commercial purchases, could you disclose the price?

US Amazon is showing $15.99 for the 8in (200mm) rn. Vic Swiss Modern is showing $53 but I've seen these over $60. I'd assume less variability on the Stäl but that's just due to pricing algorithms and relative popularity.

Edit: Fibrox handles are cheaper but these are supposed to be discontinued for consumers in the US.

 

[stringer]

Saw these Stäl western profile knives in X50CrMoV15 steel while reading today and couldn't help but wonder about performance compared to Victorinox/Mercer. Any thoughts from owners? Thanks!

https://www.wincous.com/collections/stal-stamped-cutlery

Yes I'm familiar with them. They are a brand made by a Kitchen ware conglomerate out of Guangdong province you might have heard of called Winco. They are very similar to Dexter, Mercer, Victorinox, etc. Equally crappy. Or an equally amazing value. I own several of them and probably have a dozen at work. They are one of the most commonly carried brands at American restaurant supply stores.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Yes I'm familiar with them. They are a brand made by a Kitchen ware conglomerate out of Guangdong province you might have heard of called Winco. They are very similar to Dexter, Mercer, Victorinox, etc. Equally crappy. Or an equally amazing value. I own several of them and probably have a dozen at work. They are one of the most commonly carried brands at American restaurant supply stores.

View attachment 331327

I must have missed the WinCo in the url and the splash page

 

[stringer]

I must have missed the WinCo in the url and the splash page

Here's one in action.

 

[aporigine]

Here's one in action.

goes to show that a food prep boss can get great good results with an ok knife.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Yes I'm familiar with them. They are a brand made by a Kitchen ware conglomerate out of Guangdong province you might have heard of called Winco. They are very similar to Dexter, Mercer, Victorinox, etc. Equally crappy. Or an equally amazing value. I own several of them and probably have a dozen at work. They are one of the most commonly carried brands at American restaurant supply stores.

View attachment 331327

Do you have any packaging for these Stäl knives lying around? There's no mention of country of origin in any of their marketing materials. Their Chinese chef knives state on the retail packaging so maybe that's true for the Stäl knives, too. Fwiw, here's Dexter describing one of their imported/OEM knives in response to your misinformation/your random website's misinformation yesterday claiming all US manufacturing. https://dexter1818.com/products/p94801-basics-8-cooks-knife/

Edit: Sorry, no referral fee for you.

Reddit isn't the best place to get your information.

Dexter Russell does everything, even sourcing the steel and injection molding their cheap plastic handles right in the USA.

This is from a person who catalogs which knives are American made.

https://www.nothingbutknives.com/american-made-knives/

View attachment 331189

Maybe this kind of behavior flies on Reddit. But if you spout off random misinformation here people will call you out on it. People come to this forum for legitimate info about knives and steels and such. I don't know everything. And when I don't know I don't say anything. But if someone else says something wrong and it is about my area of expertise then I will do my best to set the record straight.

Dexter is an American knife company using American materials to make tools in America.
Winco is a Chinese importer of knives and other restaurant supplies.
WinCo is an American discount grocer chain and entirely irrelevant to Chinese chef knives.

WinCo is a Chinese manufacturer based in Guangdong.
Dexter is an American manufacturer based in Massachusetts. If you have information that proves Dexter has been sourcing OEM stuff from China then you could probably find a false claims attorney and file suit. I would be happy to refer one for a small finders fee.

View attachment 331197

View attachment 331196

 

[stringer]

goes to show that a food prep boss can get great good results with an ok knife.

When it comes down to it you don't need fancy tools to cook food. They just make it a lot more fun.

I am a huge fan of restaurant supply commodity level stuff. And I have said it many times before, but in the US at least, a $10 Winco or $20 Dexter is a far better value than a $40 Victorinox.

Do you have any packaging for these Stäl knives lying around? There's no mention of country of origin in any of their marketing materials. Their Chinese chef knives state on the retail packaging so maybe that's true for the Stäl knives, too. Fwiw, here's Dexter describing one of their imported/OEM knives in response to your misinformation/your random website's misinformation yesterday claiming all US manufacturing. https://dexter1818.com/products/p94801-basics-8-cooks-knife/

Edit: Sorry, no referral fee for you.

You win! That's evidence they use OEM for something. I'm still convinced that the Chinese cleavers get made here in the US. For at least the past 15-20 years. I could be wrong.

I can look at the original packaging for a Stal in a minute. I'm headed to Restaurant Depot. They have them. I'll check.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

When it comes down to it you don't need fancy tools to cook food. They just make it a lot more fun.

I am a huge fan of restaurant supply commodity level stuff. And I have said it many times before, but in the US at least, a $10 Winco or $20 Dexter is a far better value than a $40 Victorinox.



You win! That's evidence they use OEM for something. I'm still convinced that the Chinese cleavers get made here in the US. For at least the past 15-20 years. I could be wrong.

I can look at the original packaging for a Stal in a minute. I'm headed to Restaurant Depot. They have them. I'll check.

Regarding cleavers, there's some real chance the WinCos started life as clones or counterfeits but it's virtually impossible for an amateur to prove or distinguish from OEM. In particular, the 7x2 shape is unique to exactly Dexter Russell and WinCo, handles match down to the texturing/ring spacing, and branding on both includes the rather peculiar 華式厨刀 (Chinese-style kitchen knife). There's no real possibility this is coincidence.

 

[Jovidah]

US Amazon is showing $15.99 for the 8in (200mm) rn. Vic Swiss Modern is showing $53 but I've seen these over $60. I'd assume less variability on the Stäl but that's just due to pricing algorithms and relative popularity.

Edit: Fibrox handles are cheaper but these are supposed to be discontinued for consumers in the US.

Comparing to the swiss modern handles is bs; they're almost twice as expensive even for the basic black plastic version (50 vs 32 euros).
It's silly because the fibrox is actually a way better handle (SM version is too skinny and narrow).

This Stäl stuff is most likely a home brand but unless they specify origin somewhere it's a guessing game who made them.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Comparing to the swiss modern handles is bs; they're almost twice as expensive even for the basic black plastic version (50 vs 32 euros).
It's silly because the fibrox is actually a way better handle (SM version is too skinny and narrow).

This Stäl stuff is most likely a home brand but unless they specify origin somewhere it's a guessing game who made them.

And here I am hating the Fibrox handle but embracing the Swiss Modern, lol. I mention because Fibrox is transitioning to industry-only in the US.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

So you said you were out on the cleaver thing but then just started a new thread with a thin veil to keep the discussion going so you could hopefully prove your point?

Good grief.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

So you said you were out on the cleaver thing but then just started a new thread with a thin veil to keep the discussion going so you could hopefully prove your point?

Good grief.

He continued to heckle not only in that thread but also here and so I responded. This is reasonable and it's unfortunate that you're bothered by it.

Edit: There is no 'thin veil' here from me. I asked about an unrelated topic.

 

[stringer]

Ok. I got the deets.

All of the Dexter stuff is marked Made in USA. Southbridge MA. (Also I realize that manufacturers game the system by just doing assembly in the US sometimes). I just have always seen Made in USA on Dexter stuff in stores and catalogs and I have had many sales reps tell me how they source their own proprietary steel from a US source (Dexsteel) which is probably just a version of XCRMo whatever.

Stal is made with German steel in China by Winco.

In the end, I was mainly just trolling you @azn_knives_4l . Consider it a rite of passage (ask @jedy617 . I have been harassing people for fun on the Internet since about the time Al Gore invented the thing. Thanks for being a good sport.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Ok. I got the deets.

All of the Dexter stuff is marked Made in USA. Southbridge MA. (Also I realize that manufacturers game the system by just doing assembly in the US sometimes). I just have always seen Made in USA on Dexter stuff in stores and catalogs and I have had many sales reps tell me how they source their own proprietary steel from a US source (Dexsteel) which is probably just a version of XCRMo whatever.

View attachment 331389
View attachment 331390


Stal is made with German steel in China by Winco.

View attachment 331387
View attachment 331388


In the end, I was mainly just trolling you @azn_knives_4l . Consider it a rite of passage (ask @jedy617 . I have been harassing people for fun on the Internet since about the time Al Gore invented the thing. Thanks for being a good sport.

Appreciate the confirmation on the Stähls and cleavers and Dexters.

Edit: Also for making meaningful statements even with the trolling. That's pretty important in public spaces and not everybody gets that.

 

[jedy617]

Nice mazaki

 

[aporigine]

The outcome of these recent tectonics for me is that I’m surprised and delighted that Dexter is US manufacture. I’d written the budget/pro brands off as all (mainland) Chinese ware.

 

[blokey]

I have seen WinCo and Dexter clever side by side, grind is not the same, WinCo is noticeably heavier and thicker

 

[azn_knives_4l]

I have seen WinCo and Dexter clever side by side, grind is not the same, WinCo is noticeably heavier and thicker

Thanks. Been a loooooong time since I've had a chance to compare up close and it's not something I even thought about back then.

 

[blokey]

Regarding cleavers, there's some real chance the WinCos started life as clones or counterfeits but it's virtually impossible for an amateur to prove or distinguish from OEM. In particular, the 7x2 shape is unique to exactly Dexter Russell and WinCo, handles match down to the texturing/ring spacing, and branding on both includes the rather peculiar 華式厨刀 (Chinese-style kitchen knife). There's no real possibility this is coincidence.

That style is very common, a Cantonese 小片刀 that Cantonese immigrants bought with them, it's kind like the plastic handle chef knives of the Chinese cleaver, every one makes them, from Chinese OEM to American to Japanese
https://dexter1818.com/products/s5198-traditional-8-x-3-chinese-chefs-knife/
https://www.wincous.com/products/kc-101?_pos=4&_sid=652cf8c28&_ss=r
https://www.mercerculinary.com/product/chinese-chefs-knife-wood-handle-8-x-3-1-4-20-3-x-8-3-cm/
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ecials/products/gesshin-chinese-cleaver-small
https://bernalcutlery.com/collectio...se-cleaver-stainless-clad-sk-carbon-beechwood
https://item.rakuten.co.jp/moonphase/10064087/

 

[azn_knives_4l]

That style is very common, a Cantonese 小片刀 that Cantonese immigrants bought with them, it's kind like the plastic handle chef knives of the Chinese cleaver, every one makes them, from Chinese OEM to American to Japanese
https://dexter1818.com/products/s5198-traditional-8-x-3-chinese-chefs-knife/
https://www.wincous.com/products/kc-101?_pos=4&_sid=652cf8c28&_ss=r
https://www.mercerculinary.com/product/chinese-chefs-knife-wood-handle-8-x-3-1-4-20-3-x-8-3-cm/
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...ecials/products/gesshin-chinese-cleaver-small
https://bernalcutlery.com/collectio...se-cleaver-stainless-clad-sk-carbon-beechwood
https://item.rakuten.co.jp/moonphase/10064087/

Not the shorter one in 7x2. I've actually only ever seen these from Dexter and WinCo. Would appreciate if you have any links on that particular shape. https://images.app.goo.gl/g8eBxCjUD6Vuwt2F9

Edit: Linking the Dexter, too, for reference. https://images.app.goo.gl/mo6w2HgFfxhNNFei6

 

[blokey]

Not the shorter one in 7x2. I've actually only ever seen these from Dexter and WinCo. Would appreciate if you have any links on that particular shape. https://images.app.goo.gl/g8eBxCjUD6Vuwt2F9

That one might be just them, but WinCo copying something is not entirely new, they could just slam a Nakiri on that handle.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

That one might be just them, but WinCo copying something is not entirely new, they could just slam a Nakiri on that handle.

Exactly why I described the possibility of cloning above.

 

[M1k3]

Imported from..... Canada? Mexico? New Mexico Prefecture?

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Imported from..... Canada? Mexico? New Mexico Prefecture? View attachment 332520

Definitely from the moon.