The Baking Thread: Q&A's, Tips, Equipment...Emotional Support

[HumbleHomeCook]

Alright KKF, how about a spot for all you experienced bakers to share your knowledge and us noobs to come for help?

Of all the things I mentioned in title the only thing I can offer is emotional support. And no doubt lots of questions.

In fact, I'll start with the first question...

I'm making a simple yeast dough using a stand mixer for the bulk of the work.

I suck at shaping the loaves. I get folds, creases, etc. I feel like maybe the dough is too dry?

After rising, I dump it on a floured surface, split into two, do a little kneading and then try to shape it but it just sorta stays as is and doesn't really shape easily. I'm sure I'm doing a horrible job describing this.

I welcome any and all thoughts.

And please, join in. Ask away, share lessons or recipes, tell us about good or bad equipment, and just generally talk the science of baking.

 

[ian]

After rising, I dump it on a floured surface, split into two, do a little kneading and then try to shape it but it just sorta stays as is and doesn't really shape easily. I'm sure I'm doing a horrible job describing this.

Probably the dough is too tight from the kneading. I wouldn’t knead after dividing, but if you do, let the dough rest for 20 min or something before you shape it.

Might help if you post some pics, or the recipe you’re using.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Thanks @ian.

I was actually wondering if it needed some more time to relax. Tight is a good description and everything bakes up nice.

I've used two different recipes and had the same experience with both.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Here's the recipe I used today. I know weights are preferred but this is the recipe that came with my stand mixer so thought I'd try it.

1 2/3 cups water
1 1/2 Tbs honey
2 1/4 tsps yeast
5 1/2 cups flour
1/2 cup nonfat dry powdered milk
2 Tbs salt
1/2 stick of butter

The other recipe I've used does not have the powdered milk and includes oil but I had the same issue with loaf shaping after dividing.

 

[RonB]

With recipes for foods, you can sorta wing it, but baking bread is more of a science. If you get one ingredient off by too much, you can change the dough considerably.

How did you measure the flour in the above recipe? If you measured it differently than the person posting the recipe, it will turn out differently. If you dip your cup into the flour, it will compact and you may have too much flour which will result in a dryer dough - unless that's the way the originator of the recipe did it. A lot of people use the "scoop and level" method. Use a spoon to put flour in the cup. and overfill the cup. Then use something that has a straight edge to level the flour in the cup.
One of the best things you can do is buy a scale to measure ingredients by weight, and until you have some experience, try to use recipes that measure ingredients by weight.
There are a ton of youtube videos on shaping dough, but watch a bunch to get an idea off what most people do. I like the Chain Baker because he is easy to follow, and he has a series on the Steps of Baking that might be helpful.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

With recipes for foods, you can sorta wing it, but baking bread is more of a science. If you get one ingredient off by too much, you can change the dough considerably.

How did you measure the flour in the above recipe? If you measured it differently than the person posting the flour, it will turn out differently. If you dip your cup into the flour, it will compact and you may have too much flour which will result in a dryer dough - unless that's the way the originator of the recipe did it. A lot of people use the "scoop and level" method. Use a spoon to put flour in the cup. and overfill the cup. Then use something that has a straight edge to level the flour in the cup.
One of the best things you can do is buy a scale to measure ingredients by weight, and until you have some experience, try to use recipes that measure ingredients by weight.
There are a ton of youtube videos on shaping dough, but watch a bunch to get an idea off what most people do. I like the Chain Baker because he is easy to follow, and he has a series on the Steps of Baking that might be helpful.

Yeah I took weights for the recipe today so that if I decide to keep using it I can move away from volumes.

 

[ian]

Doubt it’s the fault of the recipe at the moment, but idk. With practice, though, you should be able to shape anything in a huge range of possible hydrations. More likely just need to let the dough relax. And if it tenses up during shaping and becomes difficult to work with, let it relax again. Another thought: maybe you’re using too much flour during shaping? That would account for folds and creases. You really want to use as little as possible, just to make it possible to handle. Also, what’s your shaping method?

Personally, I wish I’d just gone straight to flour/water/salt/yeast recipes from the start rather than using recipes that include lots of other ingredients. It makes it harder to get a feel for the process and how the ingredients play off each other when there are more of them.

Bread ftw! Good luck, and post some pictures or videos!

 

[AT5760]

Ian’s advice is spot on. I’ve started a journal for bread and plan to do the same recipe at least 5-6 times before I branch to another one. I’ve been baking cakes, pies, cookies, etc for about 30 years. Bread is different. Fun challenge though.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Doubt it’s the fault of the recipe at the moment, but idk. With practice, though, you should be able to shape anything in a huge range of possible hydrations. More likely just need to let the dough relax. And if it tenses up during shaping and becomes difficult to work with, let it relax again. Another thought: maybe you’re using too much flour during shaping? That would account for folds and creases. You really want to use as little as possible, just to make it possible to handle. Also, what’s your shaping method?

Personally, I wish I’d just gone straight to flour/water/salt/yeast recipes from the start rather than using recipes that include lots of other ingredients. It makes it harder to get a feel for the process and how the ingredients play off each other when there are more of them.

Bread ftw! Good luck, and post some pictures or videos!

Yessir I think it is a combination of not letting relax and flour.

We just got the stand mixer so that's why I've been using the two recipes I have been. Got me a couple baking books I'm gonna dive into but wanted to try the "recommended" to get started.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Ian’s advice is spot on. I’ve started a journal for bread and plan to do the same recipe at least 5-6 times before I branch to another one. I’ve been baking cakes, pies, cookies, etc for about 30 years. Bread is different. Fun challenge though.

Yep, I pulled out a notebook and started making notes, to include weights so I stick to a recipe for a while learn.

 

[Michi]

Check out the "ChainBaker" channel on YouTube. He is doing a huge variety of breads, from very simple for beginners to quite fancy. The explanations and videos are excellent.

Another channel worth watching is "Foodgeek". Also lots of good videos there.

Both channels tend to use hand-kneading rather than a a stand mixer. Trust me: a stand mixer works just as well and is one hell of a lot less work

Pay attention to how these guys shape their breads. That method really works.

 

[RonB]

If you think you might like to try making bread, here's a very easy way to give it a try. And Brian offers ways to improve the bread too. No matter which way you choose, the bread should still taste the same.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

@ian here in the finished product you can see the fold lines that remained in the dough when I was "shaping" it.

 

[ian]

Looks tasty! Love the shine.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Looks tasty! Love the shine.

Rubbed it with butter straight out of the oven.

Daughter is here and she bakes a lot. She concurs that my dough is probably a little dry and a little tight.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Our bread pans have really been meatloaf pans for several years. They're alright but a little beat up.

I'm thinking USA Bread Pans.

Thoughts? Other suggestions?

 

[Michi]

I have the USA Pan 9” and 13” Pullman pans. They are fine.

 

[NameAlreadyTaken]

I have the USA Pan 9” and 13” Pullman pans. They are fine.

Totally agree with Michi. My USA Pan Pullmans are great for 100% rye sourdough, although as a result, I don’t have much to offer by way of suggestions about kneading (as pure rye dough ends up more like dry porridge).

 

[Seemore]

@ian here in the finished product you can see the fold lines that remained in the dough when I was "shaping" it.

View attachment 223763

 

[Seemore]

@ian here in the finished product you can see the fold lines that remained in the dough when I was "shaping" it.

View attachment 223763

Regarding the creases or fold lines in the finished loaf, I’ve found that they can come from two “opposite” causes. Too much flour when forming the final loaf can cause them; so can too much olive oil coating when bulk proofing prior to the final shaping. Having said that, there are almost no such things as serious “faults” with homemade fresh bread as long as it hangs together. Delicious has a lot of different appearances!

 

[gentiscid]

Freshly fed sourdough starter (1:2:2 ratio)

 

[PostLimón]

I have used this website for much of my baking journey. I find that Maurizio does a great job of explaining and showing his techniques. I've used his method for shaping a pan loaf for the last several loaves I have made. The link also includes a quick video.

Shaping a Pan Loaf

 

[Jovidah]

Regarding baking pans... the one that would really tempt me if I were to bake a lot of bread is the Challenger bread pan. But especially when considering all the added costs to ship it to Europe, you have to be really enthusiastic about bread baking to go down that road.

 

[ian]

Ya, I’d love that one. My Dutch oven is fine, but a little cramped sometimes.

 

[Michi]

Regarding baking pans... the one that would really tempt me if I were to bake a lot of bread is the Challenger bread pan. But especially when considering all the added costs to ship it to Europe, you have to be really enthusiastic about bread baking to go down that road.

That pan is great, but only good for baking bread. Get a nice large dutch oven instead, and you can use it for baking bread as well as lots of other things. I use a Le Creuset 7 ¼ quart dutch oven, which can accommodate even a quite large loaf.

 

[Jovidah]

Cast iron Dutch oven is what I use now, but the challenger bread pan looks a lot easier (and safer) compared to trying to carefully lower my dough into a pre-heated pan. But I just don't bake enough bread to warrant such a unitasker.

 

[Michi]

Cast iron Dutch oven is what I use now, but the challenger bread pan looks a lot easier (and safer) compared to trying to carefully lower my dough into a pre-heated pan. But I just don't bake enough bread to warrant such a unitasker.

The way I get my loaves into the hot dutch oven is to place a piece of parchment paper onto a small cutting board, put that on top of the banneton, and then invert the banneton so the dough ends up sitting on top of the parchment paper. Now I can score and spray the dough. Then I use the parchment paper like a sling and lower the dough into the dutch oven. When the loaf is done, the parchment conveniently allows me to lift the bread out of the pot.

 

[RonB]

Ya, I’d love that one. My Dutch oven is fine, but a little cramped sometimes.

Here's a cheaper solution. Just flip it upside down and use the lid as the base. It's much safer and much easier to load:

https://smile.amazon.com/Lodge-L8DD...1675742910&sprefix=lodge+double,aps,84&sr=8-2

 

[tally-ho]

Regarding baking pans... the one that would really tempt me if I were to bake a lot of bread is the Challenger bread pan. But especially when considering all the added costs to ship it to Europe, you have to be really enthusiastic about bread baking to go down that road.

Le creuset has one that is round and smaller.
Emile Henry has also different models but are ceramic instead of cast iron.

 

[Michi]

Here's a cheaper solution. Just flip it upside down and use the lid as the base. It's much safer and much easier to load:

https://smile.amazon.com/Lodge-L8DD3-Cast-Iron-Dutch/dp/B000LEXR0K/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3RB19XWJYJWL2&keywords=lodge+double+dutch+oven&qid=1675742910&sprefix=lodge+double,aps,84&sr=8-2

This will work. But you won't get a large loaf in there, so that's something to keep in mind.