The Elephant (not) in the Room

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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bermuda_chub

bermuda_chub

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Metaphorically speaking, to be sure. Are there any women here?

The question has been bouncing around in my head for weeks, but after reading the Wirecutter article in the New York Times slamming vegetable chopping gadgets, I felt compelled to start this thread. The gist of the article is that a surge of Tiktok videos promoting junkball plastic doohickeys that magically dice veggies has no basis in fact, and that chopping vegetables will always be a chore. The article doesn't delve into the obvious answer: buy a better set of knives and transform the task into the most pleasurable part of meal prep.

The only woman that I ever see mentioned here is Chelsea Miller, typically as the butt of jokes. It really doesn't make any sense. Some of the greatest professional chefs in the world are women, as well as some of the best home chefs that I know. While the physical element of knifemaking will likely always make it a male-dominated profession, there is no reason that using and collecting high end kitchen knives should be disproportionately enjoyed by men. From what I can tell, the greatest obstacle to women getting into this hobby is the overriding perception that knives are weapons, and therefore inherently unfeminine. Redefining fine knives as functional art, which is what they deserve to be seen as, would be a great leap forward for this hobby and an unparalleled business opportunity for knifemakers.

KKF is truly one of best online special interest platforms that I've ever discovered, and should take the lead in advancing this hobby. There are so many brilliant, articulate members here who enjoy helping those who have just discovered the world of craft knives. And frankly, there is so much to learn. By the end of 2024, my goal is to introduce five women chefs to this forum and encourage them to take part. Hopefully others will do the same.
 
For what it's worth, there are actually several female blacksmiths and sharpeners in the business and at least some female members here... but it simply rarely ever comes up.

Somehow there's a human habbit to assume other people in these kind of faceless internet interactions are the same gender, race, etnicity, etc until evidence of the contrary presents itself.
 
There have been women here (both posting and lurking).

But as with many a place, while not overtly misogynistic, there are times where I suspect it veers here into places that make women uncomfortable. Anonymity sometime brings out the not-best in people. As a result they leave.
 
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A cheap, sharp piece of metal cuts food. Arguably this forum is geared towards people having a better knife, but having a better knife doesn't make a better chef. Unless you're in a pro environment where you do heavy volume then a more expensive knife isn't realistically going to make a difference for most people.

My suspicion is that many people (maybe more boys than girls) look at expensive sharp knives and think, "that's so cool." Then they ostensibly try and work on their cooking so that they can buy expensive knives without having to deal with the social consequences of being a person who buys a lot of knives. Looking at this forum, the knife aspect leads and cooking is secondary.

I also suspect based on "traditional" gender norms that many people (maybe more girls than boys) care more about cooking than knives. If that's the case those people probably wouldn't encounter this forum or topic much at all. People into cooking tend to hunt recipes rather than knives.

TLDR: people who are interested in knives would be drawn to this forum. People who are interested in cooking probably wouldn't be as much. Based on many cultures' gender norms it follows that his forum's gender distribution is probably skewed to be male heavy.
 
WildBoar said:
I chalk it up to women, in general, having more common sense than men.
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Women rarely succumb to the “collector” impulse that drives many of us. I blame biology.

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In between the general belief that Gyutos shorter than 240mm are for sissies and the hundreds of posts from guys joking about "hiding" their latest purchase from their SO, I'd just wish the OP good luck. Not a critic but just what it is.

I'd be all about having dozens of women around here posting vids where they basically show much superior skills/efficiency with a 165mm Santoku... and then basically implying that their husband is such a killjoy or a dork that he "does not get it" and that she's smuggling her latest knife in the household and he's basically unaware enough that he does not catch upon it. Which, if you ask me, has a much higher chance of being true than the opposite.

I suspect, if such a crowd was around, they wouldn't be so readily welcomed. A lot of "240mm or sissies" men around here would feel so small in their shorts they couldn't even stomach it.

Before that happens though, most women that will come around here will quickly be fed up with the underlying G.I. Joe's culture. When you "smuggle" a new knife in and she doesn't say a word, believe me, it's just because she's smart enough to know that you need your toys, and patient enough to put up with it. And if she ever gets fed up with the smuggling, it will be because your blatant immaturity (and thinking of her as stupid) will have become enough of an affront that she cannot put up with it anymore. Then you'll probably see that she's made a mental list, and dates, of all the smuggling.

When you look closely at what's underlying a major difference between men and women, it appears that women tend to nurture what they conquer, whereas men tend to see what they conquer as a simple obeying "object" soon not worth their attention anymore - unless they have the "MOST" of them, the "BEST" of them, the "FASTEST" of them, the "BIGGEST" of them. It's not always true but it's there. So when comparing knives and cars to shoes and bags, men are driven into their hobby as to show superiority, whereas women are driven into their hobby as to show discernment, taste, and awareness of tendencies. The next pair of shoes or the next bag is not "SUPERIOR", it's nurturing the form that they've already conquered.

If women were exactly like men, then as soon as they would give birth, MOST of them wouldn't care about the baby anymore - giving birth would be the summit conquered, and she'd move onto something else to conquer.

If men were exactly like women, then they'd buy 100 knives because one or another would look prettier and more adapted alongside cut celeries, mushrooms, or radishes.

Which is NOT saying reciprocation never happens. It is just saying that the underlying tendency is what it is, and therefore the distribution is what it is.
 
Has it been your experience that men's hobbies and women's hobbies align a lot? It has not been mine. My wife has her own hobbies. She finds that mostly other women do those hobbies. My hobbies, I find other men doing them.

Seems OK to me. If that's mostly how it is, I don't see the point in pushing back on it. People enjoy what they enjoy, and that's fine.
 
Rangen said:
Has it been your experience that men's hobbies and women's hobbies align a lot? It has not been mine. My wife has her own hobbies. She finds that mostly other women do those hobbies. My hobbies, I find other men doing them.

Seems OK to me. If that's mostly how it is, I don't see the point in pushing back on it. People enjoy what they enjoy, and that's fine.
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Agree. I just think interest in home cooking is growing exponentially post-pandemic, and more people are taking an interest in preparing restaurant-quality food at home. Nothing makes cooking more enjoyable than using great knives. If you watch The Bear, think of the scene where Carm gives Sydney his knife. Pretty symbolic, I’d say.
 
ModRQC said:
I'd be all about having dozens of women around here posting vids where they basically show much superior skills/efficiency with a 165mm Santoku...
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I know quite a few professional women who rock 10" - 11" chef knives, who'd be *really* tickled by the assumption that the female KKF constituency would be using 165mm santoku by default lol
 
jedy617 said:
But to be fair I don't think she's interested in the object for it's intrinsic value, just what it represents.
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That’s true. It’s a work of fiction with a story arc and all that. But there’s a reason for the scene. If you take yourself seriously as a chef, then you probably love working with knives. They go hand-in-hand. We’re hosting a couple of well known chefs for a dinner party next month (one man, one woman), and as nervous as I am, I’m really excited to show them my knife collection.
 
bermuda_chub said:
That’s true. It’s a work of fiction with a story arc and all that. But there’s a reason for the scene. If you take yourself seriously as a chef, then you probably love working with knives. They go hand-in-hand. We’re hosting a couple of well known chefs for a dinner party next month (one man, one woman), and as nervous as I am, I’m really excited to show them my knife collection.
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Yeah it's interesting. I have a friend who is a chef and works in 2 michellin star restaurants. He really likes his knives, a shibata, and a few others. He doesn't know a ton about them but he likes them. I think that's where a lot of pro chefs fit in. They don't obsess over it or treat it as a hobby and join forums like we do
 
aporigine said:
Yup … another hypothesis bites the dust.
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My wife asked me early on why I like to collect knives.

I said, “Well you collect shoes, and purses….”
She broke in “Ok ok I get it!”
I continued “….and tops, and bottoms, and makeup, and jackets, and skin care products, and nail polish….”
“Fine! You can collect your knives!”

And the one and only thing we bought on our recent trip to Spain was a new handbag 🤣
 
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