The never ending question...one stone ?

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Jkr

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I’m looking for my first whetstone. I have never sharpened before, so it may not be for me.
I have read a lot, and know that some like hard – some like soft stones.
What I like, no one knows.
But im seeking the best stone for a guy who is just trying out sharpening, to see if he likes it. And get sharper kitchen knives in the process.

Money is short and I was thinking a combo-stone, but was advised against it (?).
Also the Naniwa super stones was not recommended for a beginner (?).

Info/criteria:
a good beginner stone.
If I don’t like sharpening, the stone should not cost much.
Stone should be usable as a ‘one stone only’.
If I like sharpening, the stone should be usable the next couple of years (be a part of a set).
My knives are dull, not round or chipped.
No need for a flattening block right away.

My knives:
German steel
VG10
AUS-8
Outdoor knives

The list of possible stones
King combi kw65 - #1000/6000 - price around 35€
King deluxe #1000 (or maybe #800) - Price around 28€
Naniwa BASE stones – two stones #1000+#3000 - Price around 60€
Naniwa pro #800 – Price around 60€
Shapton pro #1000, #1500 or #2000 - Price around 46€

Due to the Price tag im leaning against the King deluxe or one of the shapton pros.
The naiwa BASE combination is tempting, but I cant find much about the stones.

Any feedback and input to the above is highly appreciated.
 
SirCutAlot said:
One stone solution for the knives you mentioned ?

Naniwa Pro 800.

SirCutALot
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Thanks for the reply. I dont like it - thats the most expensive one :)
I get that would be the solution for the knive - but what about the other variables?
For the price of Naniwa pro 800 I can buy one of the Shapton pros + a Naniwa flattening stone #160. Would that be a better solution for at starting point?
 
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Maybe a Norton India combo, for really budget, but a Washita is a truly versatile one stone option.
 
For the steels you've listed, the lack of a desire for flattening, and the general utility, I'd recommend an Ultra Sharp combination diamond stone.

The diamond isn't necessary for those steels but you also don't have any finer carbon steels that are less attractive for diamonds. The diamond won't need flattening, can handle most any steel you throw at it, and give you a combination for a pretty reasonable cost (at least in the States).

You'll need something to put it on or hold it.

If you go this route, keep in mind, diamonds don't need much pressure.
 
Just my personal experience, but I started with a King 1000 and sharpened everything in my kitchen with it for a while (similar stuff at the time, german steel and VG10). The things got sharper and I got better (I think... maybe). I've learned that I enjoy the process of sharpening, and I subsequently added probably too many additional stones. I'm passing the 1000 on to a friend this weekend as his first stone.
 
The advantage of the Naniwa Pro 800 is in its exceptional versatility. You may find out that by varying pressure and the amount of water and raised mud you may use it for different tasks, from deburring problematic steels to thinning behind the edge with highly abrasion resistant steels. I'd add that it offers a great tactile feedback which is very helpful in the learning process, so you can feel when a burr comes off, or any remaining unevenness. Finally, it's quite fast, which is more important to a novice than to a more experienced user. Learning to keep a steady angle is something you'll learn, but will take some time. To an experienced sharpener having to perform twenty instead of five strokes is no big deal. A beginner though has to do quite an effort to perform just a few consistent ones.
 
Jkr said:
For the price of Naniwa pro 800 I can buy one of the Shapton pros + a Naniwa flattening stone #160. Would that be a better solution for at starting point?
Click to expand...
For sure. But flattening stones are not worth anything. Just buy one flat Granite tile and Silicon Carbide powder, this is way cheaper.#

SirCutALot
 
You will need something coarse if you want the sharpening of german steel to be productive. Something minimum 500 grain, in my mind.
I would get something like a coarse stone plus the JKI diamond 1k + 6k combo.
 
1 Stone selections can be difficult. You may get a number of recommendations that are out of your price range. Here at KKF a "1 stone solution" would need to cover a lot of sharpening bases (Edge sharpening, thinning, wide bevel finishing, touching up, etc) , and more expensive stones do this more effectively.

My honest suggestion would be Gesshin 2K, but as the OP mentioned cost, this may be cost prohibitive.

For a 1 Stone solution on the CHEAP end, i would say any 800-1200 stone could work but certain stones work better for certain types of sharpening. As you mentioned you dont love sharpening, i would stop at that one stone. Usually you get what you pay for, but there are great stones that can be found for $50US
 
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Shapton 1k is excellent. Easy to use, easy to maintain, and will easily grind the steels you mentioned. It was my first stone but still gets use, especially when family members bring me knives to sharpen
 
This is the most BOH whack job thing I've ever written on this forum, but in a pinch I used to use a flatiron griddle screen on top of a stainless steel table to flatten my stones. It was $2.00 USD for a pack of 20. You gotta have something to flatten with.

I'm going to second the opinions on the Shapton and the Naniwa. Either will do you just fine.
 
MowgFace said:
1 Stone selections can be difficult. You may get a number of recommendations that are out of your price range. Here at KKF a "1 stone solution" would need to cover a lot of sharpening bases (Edge sharpening, thinning, wide bevel finishing, touching up, etc) , and more expensive stones do this more effectively.

My honest suggestion would be Gesshin 2K, but as the OP mentioned cost, this may be cost prohibitive.

For a 1 Stone solution on the CHEAP end, i would say any 800-1200 stone could work but certain stones work better for certain types of sharpening. As you mentioned you dont love sharpening, i would stop at that one stone. Usually you get what you pay for, but there are great stones that can be found for $50US
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Thank you for the reply. Lots of good info and thoughts.
I dont know if i love sharpening yet. So, if it becomes a hobby, the stone should be usable in a setup. If sharpening just becomes a necessity, the stone should be a decent one in the kitchen.

From the list of stones i wrote, would you recommend one of the cheaper options?
 
Kawa said:
Shapton pro 1000.
Can do a bit of everything. Just not the most exclusive sharpness: it a rather coarse stone.
Cheap.


And a cheap flattening stone. You don't want it, but you simply need something to flatten.
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yes, I really dont want a flattening stone. But I can buy the shapton pro #1000 + naniwa flattening stone QA-0160
for around 60€. The same as a Naniwa #800. So stone + flattening would be tha better option here i guess.
Any opinion on why the Shapton #1000 and not the #1500 ?
 
Jkr said:
Thank you for the reply. Lots of good info and thoughts.
I dont know if i love sharpening yet. So, if it becomes a hobby, the stone should be usable in a setup. If sharpening just becomes a necessity, the stone should be a decent one in the kitchen.

From the list of stones i wrote, would you recommend one of the cheaper options?
Click to expand...

I completely understand where you're coming from.

As far as recommendations go, I LOVE my Shapton Pro 2K, and I keep it and a Shapton Pro 320 in my trunk as my "Sharpening GO Kit." Though as a one stone set up, you will be sacrificing sharpening speed for a higher grit edge. That is why i have a 320 as its partner, so i can get through the majority of my sharpening fast, then refine on the 2K.

I have only used the Shapton Pro 1K a couple times, but thought it was a good stone. I think if 1 stone is all you will start with, this would be a good choice. I have never used the Naniwa Pro 800 since they were rebranded from Chosera, but i liked that stone just fine as well.

You need a flattening stone. Though i might have the unpopular opinion that you dont need it right away. Just know, as long as you dont have one your stone is not flat.
 
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If money is tight, skip the flattening stone and buy some 60-80grit silicon carbide (SiC) powder and a flat piece of stone tile from the hardware store. When your stone gets dished, pour some powder on the tile and rub the stone on it til it's flat. It's fast and cheap, though a bit messy.

I'd also say that you dont NEED the flattening solution right away. For occasional sharpening, I'd argue that you could even put it off for a fairly long time.
 
Jkr said:
yes, I really dont want a flattening stone. But I can buy the shapton pro #1000 + naniwa flattening stone QA-0160
for around 60€. The same as a Naniwa #800. So stone + flattening would be tha better option here i guess.
Any opinion on why the Shapton #1000 and not the #1500 ?
Click to expand...

Not really. I guess the 1500 will be fine for 'one stone' aswell, because you say your knives are in dull, but good condition. Maybe even better, since it produces a bit of a finer edge which can be/feel sharper. I would not go for the 2000 as one stone, since real sharpening takes a lot longer on that one. For me personally: I guess the 1500 will do a lot more honor to your aus8 and vg10 then the pro1000 will.

If you want to do some chipped knives or really dull stuff, the 1000 will be better, since it is on the coarse side of a 1000. Many call it around 800 gritt, where the naniwa professional 800 (which is mentioned a lot here) is finer in use then the shapton 1000. So think about that if you also want to start practising on friends and families cheap knives (they are often chipped and actually need a 200ish stone to start with). With patience the 1000 will get you there aswell, the 2000 not so.


1000 seems to be a good allround gritt: can do some real sharpener (although slow) and you could finish on it and have a good sharp kitchen knive. Personally for the better steels (and to me thats anything thats not nameless crap-stainless) I would finish a bit higher for the sharper feel.
 
tostadas said:
If money is tight, skip the flattening stone and buy some 60-80grit silicon carbide (SiC) powder and a flat piece of stone tile from the hardware store. When your stone gets dished, pour some powder on the tile and rub the stone on it til it's flat. It's fast and cheap, though a bit messy.
Click to expand...
If you do go down this path, make sure that you have removed all of the SiC grit from your stone before using it to sharpen or you will contaminate your stone with a coarser, harder grit.
 
O, may I suggest you get the 220 gritt version of the naniwa flattening stone of the same series? I find it under the name A102.

The 60 gritt (your QA-0160 is actually a 60 gritt stone) will scratch and leave grooves and is very slow. It's almost as it has too little contact with the stone to actually grind. You see that also because it will not produce mud. For me, it was a stone ruiner.

The 220 is a very nice and cheap flattening stone. I've been using it for years. Its fast, cheap and last a long time. It is way quicker then the 60 gritt version (really) and can be used on almost all stones. Even my kitayama 8000 likes it.
The only drawback: it can glaze some really coarse stones, which is none of your concerns at this point. Thats why I use SiC powder for the really coarse stones
 
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The King 800 is an extremely good stone. Really, really good. Though it is a soaking stone, and it needs a reasonable amount of time.

[I haven't used the NP800 I don't think.]

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However if choosing just one stone I would 100% go for a combi. And if I can suggest a couple of things not on your list... Coarse x Fine India. Or I believe Suehiro make a Cerax 280 x 1500, which would be an awesome stone.
 
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