The worst of the worst western handles...who makes them?

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Dave Martell said:
Those of you who like Shigefusa westerns must have low expectations for fit 'n finish with high tolerance for wabi-sabi. :D

Seriously though, they're rough, poorly fitted, exposed sharp edges at the tang/bolster/rivets, with wood so unstable the scales move more than a willow tree in a hurricane. They're some of the most requested knives to rehandle. I suspect if it wasn't for their low numbers in westerns, as well as Fujiwara taking the lead, that they'd be #1.
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That's not nearly close to my experience. I think everyone is aware that the first rounds of westerns were fitted with un-stabilized wood, so shrinkage would happen for sure. A 5-10 year old knife with (thinner than most) un-stabilized scales... yes, I'd have it re-handled as well. I sure as heck wouldn't call them 'wabi-sabi'. By a long shot.

I only have a few shigs, so I don't count myself as a Shig apologist, but... 'more than a willow tree in a hurricane'? I think that's a little dramatic. This sounds more like a Shig-bait thread to me than anything else.

J- truly horrible collection of terrible wabi-sabi shigs ya got there. Good for you I have lower expectations than you, so I'd be happy to throw them in the trash for you, after I inspect them for their lousy handles first, of course.
 
Gregmega said:
That's not nearly close to my experience. I think everyone is aware that the first rounds of westerns were fitted with un-stabilized wood, so shrinkage would happen for sure. A 5-10 year old knife with (thinner than most) un-stabilized scales... yes, I'd have it re-handled as well. I sure as heck wouldn't call them 'wabi-sabi'. By a long shot.

I only have a few shigs, so I don't count myself as a Shig apologist, but... 'more than a willow tree in a hurricane'? I think that's a little dramatic. This sounds more like a Shig-bait thread to me than anything else.

J- truly horrible collection of terrible wabi-sabi shigs ya got there. Good for you I have lower expectations than you, so I'd be happy to throw them in the trash for you, after I inspect them for their lousy handles first, of course.
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Greg, there's no reason to get upset here. I'm just stating what I've seen is all. I see thousands of Japanese knives a year (and I've been at this since 2004) and beyond that I get emails asking for quotes that often have attached pictures with explanations of problems. Like I said I'm just stating what I see. If you've got good fit 'n finished Shigs then that's awesome, and I thank you for weighing in here, but I ask that you don't get mad at me for stating what I (too) know to be true.
 
Dave Martell said:
Greg, there's no reason to get upset here. I'm just stating what I've seen is all. I see thousands of Japanese knives a year (and I've been at this since 2004) and beyond that I get emails asking for quotes that often have attached pictures with explanations of problems. Like I said I'm just stating what I see. If you've got good fit 'n finished Shigs then that's awesome, and I thank you for weighing in here, but I ask that you don't get mad at me for stating what I (too) know to be true.
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I didn't sense any anger, just opinion.
 
parbaked said:
Really...thousands knives a year...is that like 2-3 knives a day people are sending you???
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maybe thats why it is usually an unusual long wait... haha. Dave can open a museum with all those knives, maybe higher output than some factories in japan. i wonder how he has time to post here!
 
brooksie967 said:
If those are bad i guess my Ashi handles are the shits too.

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total **** mannn ill take a martell over that anyday! the pin i mean.
 
Dave Martell said:
Greg, there's no reason to get upset here. I'm just stating what I've seen is all. I see thousands of Japanese knives a year (and I've been at this since 2004) and beyond that I get emails asking for quotes that often have attached pictures with explanations of problems. Like I said I'm just stating what I see. If you've got good fit 'n finished Shigs then that's awesome, and I thank you for weighing in here, but I ask that you don't get mad at me for stating what I (too) know to be true.
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I certainly didn't intend for it to read as upset at all, I was kinda going for facetious. Please don't think less of me for sharing my experience:).
 
The biggest disappointment in westerns to hit my box was a Carter - back before he realized there was money to be made by offering a decent handle. At the time it was almost automatic - get a new Carter, send it to Martell for a new handle, have a nice knife. Turned those little half tang bastards into works of art.
 
parbaked said:
Really...thousands knives a year...is that like 2-3 knives a day people are sending you???
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Sometimes I get no knives each day and other times I get a whole bunch. Saying thousands would be conservative actually.
 
inzite said:
maybe thats why it is usually an unusual long wait... haha. Dave can open a museum with all those knives, maybe higher output than some factories in japan. i wonder how he has time to post here!
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This sounds similar to the last post(s) you made about me.

And yes sharpening knives is a big part of my business, it's how I started and it's easily 50% of my income.
 
Gregmega said:
I certainly didn't intend for it to read as upset at all, I was kinda going for facetious. Please don't think less of me for sharing my experience:).
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I didn't mean to assume you were upset, it's the written word thing and all, sorry.
 
Dave Martell said:
Now you're being a dick. Are you butthurt about me talking badly about your love Fujiwara?
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nah, TF got bad handles but cuts well :D. and wow, you had to edit out the "pin" :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:?

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pwYdo8H.jpg
 
swarth said:
Is this a troll? Or marketing?
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probably the later, u know, shigs prices are a new high every day, the last time i checked prices of "other" knives they weren't following the same trend ;)
 
Maybe it's all in the eye of the beholder? When I held my first J-knife (a Carbonext gyuto) I was genuinely impressed by how nice the handles were. They are probably by all definition bog standard plain pakkawood western handles...but still I find them very comfortable. Just like the other Carbonext and Fujiwara (Kanefusa, the cheap one) knives. Are they perfect when you look at them under magnification? Probably not. But when you compare them to the dull western POM handles, or the cheapish handles they put on Chinese knives... well... it's still leaps and bounds ahead and feels a ton better.

As a slight aside... there was one exception to my 'crap handles on Chinese-made knives'... this little thing:
https://www.blokker.nl/p/bk-skills-officemes-9-cm/1137568/images/full/1137568.jpg
Crappy soft chinese made X-50, bog standard cheap crap.... but the handle is coated in some kind of rubbery plastic that may look like crap, but is arguably one of the most comfortable, grippy (especially when wet) and best working handles I've ever touched, especially on such a small knife. It's a shame it's on such a crappy blade... that handle is the only reason I haven't tossed it out years ago.
So I guess moral of the story is that looks and functionality don't necessarily always go hand in hand... nor do good blades and good handles.
 
Jovidah said:
Maybe it's all in the eye of the beholder? When I held my first J-knife (a Carbonext gyuto) I was genuinely impressed by how nice the handles were. They are probably by all definition bog standard plain pakkawood western handles...but still I find them very comfortable. Just like the other Carbonext and Fujiwara (Kanefusa, the cheap one) knives. Are they perfect when you look at them under magnification? Probably not. But when you compare them to the dull western POM handles, or the cheapish handles they put on Chinese knives... well... it's still leaps and bounds ahead and feels a ton better.
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honestly, I agree with ya i mean most knives from jp in western handle are at least ok - minus TF western handles but I guess it's really some #SALTY season here so even Shigs and Ashi get the stick HAHA.
 
inzite said:
honestly, I agree with ya i mean most knives from jp in western handle are at least ok - minus TF western handles but I guess it's really some #SALTY season here so even Shigs and Ashi get the stick HAHA.
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Well I can imagine if you handle them on a daily basis and actually construct your own.... your bar gets put a little higher. This eventually happens to all of us when going down the rabbit hole. Most of us here have ridiculously skewed knife standards as it is anyway. Give a random person on the street a Tojiro DP or Fujiwara FKM and they'll go 'wow... it's so sharp, this is the best knife I ever laid my hands on... it's a genuine work of Japanese art'. Ask for opinions here and people will say 'well it comes with a crap edge, needs some thinning, and the handles are boxy crap.. but it's decent as a beater or a cheap gift'.
 
Dave Martell said:
This sounds similar to the last post(s) you made about me.

And yes sharpening knives is a big part of my business, it's how I started and it's easily 50% of my income.
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i was merely quoting your original post that went up in smokes, you know, about throwing people to the back of the line if they emailed you etc and some examples of people being out of their knives for extended period of time with the risk of going even longer if they emailed you or spoke out lmao. thought things turned for the better but maybe not.
 
Jovidah said:
Well I can imagine if you handle them on a daily basis and actually construct your own.... your bar gets put a little higher. This eventually happens to all of us when going down the rabbit hole. Most of us here have ridiculously skewed knife standards as it is anyway. Give a random person on the street a Tojiro DP or Fujiwara FKM and they'll go 'wow... it's so sharp, this is the best knife I ever laid my hands on... it's a genuine work of Japanese art'. Ask for opinions here and people will say 'well it comes with a crap edge, needs some thinning, and the handles are boxy crap.. but it's decent as a beater or a cheap gift'.
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i agree with the points about people having different expectations but for some of the top knives coming out of japan i dunno man, shigs and ashi honyakis i'm sure folks who own them can speak to the quality.
 
inzite said:
i was merely quoting your original post that went up in smokes, you know, about throwing people to the back of the line if they emailed you etc and some examples of people being out of their knives for extended period of time with the risk of going even longer if they emailed you or spoke out lmao. thought things turned for the better but maybe not.
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Is it out of your system yet? I'd like to get back to talking about how ****** Fujiwara knives are. :D
 
Dave Martell said:
Is it out of your system yet? I'd like to get back to talking about how ****** Fujiwara knives are. :D
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yep, handles are horrible esp on the nashiji, mine cuts lovely though :D. and the yo shig is good too in both handles and cutting :D.
 
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