Toyama Knives

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Hamesjo

Hamesjo

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Hi everyone, I was curious if anyone had information about where Toyama knives are available besides from Japanese Natural Stones. Google search hasn't led to anything and I'm wondering if his offerings exist anywhere else
 
Many of Watanabe knives are made by Toyama, thus the similarity. Toyama knives can only be found online @ JNS or in some local stores in Japan.

Watanabe is a vendor (not a knife maker) of knives, sharpening stones (he has a lot of knowledge and is one of the few reliable sources for natural sharpening stones) and even jewelry and since recently sells his knives via several western vendors, but not via local stores in Japan.

However - browse around here - you will find ample information and feedback on Toyama knives
 
Matus said:
Many of Watanabe knives are made by Toyama, thus the similarity. Toyama knives can only be found online @ JNS or in some local stores in Japan.

Watanabe is a vendor (not a knife maker) of knives, sharpening stones (he has a lot of knowledge and is one of the few reliable sources for natural sharpening stones) and even jewelry and since recently sells his knives via several western vendors, but not via local stores in Japan.

However - browse around here - you will find ample information and feedback on Toyama knives
Click to expand...
Which stores out of curiousity?
Will be in nihon soon
 
Matus said:
I must admit I do not know the answer. The information comes from Maksim so I suppose he knows more, but he is now on a vacation and thus probably not easy to reach.
Click to expand...
Cheers
 
Thank you guys for the info. I browsed a decent amount here and was trying to clear up whether Watanabe was an apprentice maker himself or of Toyama makes both lines. In any case I have one of his gyutos and it performs like a champion..definitely going to nab more
 
Matus said:
Many of Watanabe knives are made by Toyama, thus the similarity. Toyama knives can only be found online @ JNS or in some local stores in Japan.

Watanabe is a vendor (not a knife maker) of knives, sharpening stones (he has a lot of knowledge and is one of the few reliable sources for natural sharpening stones) and even jewelry and since recently sells his knives via several western vendors, but not via local stores in Japan.

However - browse around here - you will find ample information and feedback on Toyama knives
Click to expand...

I always wondered why Toyama and Watanabe knives look the same and reading the posts (said and unsaid) in this forum, I made my own conjectures about it. Little did I know that Watanabe doesn't make knives. So his photos of forging knives is all for show. I'm so appalled
 
Matus said:
Many of Watanabe knives are made by Toyama, thus the similarity. Toyama knives can only be found online @ JNS or in some local stores in Japan.

Watanabe is a vendor (not a knife maker) of knives, sharpening stones (he has a lot of knowledge and is one of the few reliable sources for natural sharpening stones) and even jewelry and since recently sells his knives via several western vendors, but not via local stores in Japan.

However - browse around here - you will find ample information and feedback on Toyama knives
Click to expand...
You noted once before that someone other than Toyama makes Watanabe KU finished knives, is this only true of cheaper Watanabes? Or does that include KU knives in the professional series?
 
Last edited:
kerotan said:
I always wondered why Toyama and Watanabe knives look the same and reading the posts (said and unsaid) in this forum, I made my own conjectures about it. Little did I know that Watanabe doesn't make knives. So his photos of forging knives is all for show. I'm so appalled
Click to expand...
Really? Watanabe is just a brand? Can definitely say I’m not surprised though.
 
labor of love said:
You notes once before that someone other than Toyama makes Watanabe KU finished knives, is this only true of cheaper Watanabes? Or does that include KU knives in the professional series?
Click to expand...
The pro line including KU were/are Toyama, the cheaper KU are definitely not Toyama.

My KU gyuto has same steel, cladding, profile, and even the same low spots as the kasumi.
 
Guys, it is not like this was mentioned for the first time. But I would hate to see people being ‘appalled’ by Watanabe. He does not claim anywhere that he is making knives, he simply has his own brand. I do not know how many different suppliers he has. But one of them is Toyama and that is no secret. He sells good knives (his nakiri became a legend) and that is what matters.

I am actually wondering whether he did some of those 125SC knives he had (still has?) - as those looked very ‘hand made’. I know he bought a lot of 125SC steel directly from Achim Wirtz, but we have not seen a complete line of knives made with that steel yet, but such projects may take more time. Who knows.

He is also knowledgeable about natural stones I myself have bought a few from him and they have all been excellent.
 
Watanabe Kanji is cooler than Toyama’s technically speaking. Also the handle upgrade options, direct ordering custom requests...when in doubt order Watanabe.
 
I ordered a second Nakiri Pro from Watanabe earlier this month and will be interested to see if it's very similar to the one I bought last year. This one is going to be a Christmas gift for my granddaughter. While both of them are 180mm long I found that he also sells shorter versions of that Nakiri 120 and 150mm anybody try those?
 
Matus said:
Guys, it is not like this was mentioned for the first time. But I would hate to see people being ‘appalled’ by Watanabe. He does not claim anywhere that he is making knives, he simply has his own brand. I do not know how many different suppliers he has. But one of them is Toyama and that is no secret.
Click to expand...

While I've seen this before I'm still not convinced that it's fact rather than learned conjecture. If Sinchi was savvy enough to rep different makers as his own, I would think he would have gone to decent handles / horn awhile back.
 
Matus said:
Guys, it is not like this was mentioned for the first time. But I would hate to see people being ‘appalled’ by Watanabe. He does not claim anywhere that he is making knives, he simply has his own brand. I do not know how many different suppliers he has. But one of them is Toyama and that is no secret. He sells good knives (his nakiri became a legend) and that is what matters.

I am actually wondering whether he did some of those 125SC knives he had (still has?) - as those looked very ‘hand made’. I know he bought a lot of 125SC steel directly from Achim Wirtz, but we have not seen a complete line of knives made with that steel yet, but such projects may take more time. Who knows.

He is also knowledgeable about natural stones I myself have bought a few from him and they have all been excellent.
Click to expand...

Something is wrong here...
The Watanabe English website clearly states that the knives they sell are "painstakingly crafted by the Watanabe family."
It also states that Shinichi makes the Special and Custom knives himself.
The bio section of their website also says that Shinichi and his two brothers are the 6th generation of a blacksmith family.
There are also photos of a person, I assume to be a Watanabe, actually forging a knife.
Just to be clear, the Watanabe brand do claim to make the knives that they sell.
I can't imagine why Shinichi, who is so honest in a business as shady as natural stones, would lie about making knives.

I am really curious about your source of information, and if it is complete and accurate.
Is it possible that part of the story is lost in translation?
 
:Iagree:

I don't doubt that some blades are sourced from other smiths but I do doubt that Shinichi doen't make knives at all and Watanabe is just a "brand".
 
Shinichi makes knives, just not the best ones he seems to be famous for(allegedly).

Watanabe family may imply a lineage of knife making tradition that is passed from an elder Watanabe and currently is produced by Toyama (also allegedly).
 
The information comes of course from Maksim and Toyama obviously does not have the need to keep his relationship with Watanabe private - otherwise neither me nor anyone else would get to it. There is an older mirror version if the Watanabe English webpage that shows Toyama in his workshop:
http://www13.plala.or.jp/knife/english/pro/index.htm
The photos have very low resolution, but comparing to Maksim’s video from one of his visits to Toyama makes it clear.

As I said - Watanabe might be making some knives. But given his very fast responses to emails, he can’t be spending too much time on n the workshop. Whether some if his family members make knives is something I can not say anything about. He did inherit a large workshop, but according to Maksim it us geared towards lower end large volume production and supposedly it is not in use.

And about the handles - it is all a matter of the source, it is actually not very common to find knives with good quality handles as there is shortage of them in Japan.

If you check out the Japanese version of his site, you will find only 2 links (that after 1 more click both lead to the same page) of kitchen knives - a set of 5 knives. The description is neutral, the kanji appears different:
https://translate.googleusercontent...700283&usg=ALkJrhgJwD3jceqMUYzwSCISuWJw67voXw

On the main page Iwao Watanabe is mentioned as a smith, but it is not clear what knives does he make.

Rest of knives are outdoor knives and the origin is not clear - at least with the automatic English translation.

I personally do not care much who makes knives for Watanabe (as I do not care who makes Kochi line for Jon or who did StainLess Itinomonn line for Maksim) - I am just trying to get the message over, that Shinichi is not a knife maker, but a vendor.
 
Matus said:
Many of Watanabe knives are made by Toyama, thus the similarity. Toyama knives can only be found online @ JNS or in some local stores in Japan.

Watanabe is a vendor (not a knife maker) of knives, sharpening stones (he has a lot of knowledge and is one of the few reliable sources for natural sharpening stones) and even jewelry and since recently sells his knives via several western vendors, but not via local stores in Japan.

However - browse around here - you will find ample information and feedback on Toyama knives
Click to expand...
Wait so watanabe is a vendor? For years i thought he was the actual maker of the knives so why are toyamas so much more expensive than wats if toyama makes some of his knives?
 
You think the 'famous headchef' of a kitchen is cooking every steak?

Afaik if you buy a Watanabe blade you might get one made by one of his masters.

If it was made by the man who taught him (at least partially) then to me the essential essence that would make it a Watanabe knife is there.

Either way you see it, I STILL need to try both of their knives but I'll be in Sanjo soon enough and will shake both their hands
 
Matus said:
I am just trying to get the message over, that Shinichi is not a knife maker, but a vendor.
Click to expand...

If Shinichi makes all the knives on the Specials pages and all the custom knives, as he claims, then he is a knife maker and more than just a vendor.

I agree that there is very limited information on the Japanese site, but that's not their online store or business site.
If you look through the Specials section of the English web store, there are dozens of unique kitchen knives that Shinichi claims to have made.

He even claims to make the damascus for some of the knives on this page:
http://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/damascuschefknife.htm

I am not trying to argue, but I am genuinely confused that your statements completely contradict Shinichi's.
Saying he is not a knife maker is calling him a liar, and I just don't see any evidence for that...just my opinion.
 
Here we go again...

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/tf-or-watanabe.38102/

tenor.gif
 
Well I can only say based on the Nakari Pro I got from him is that it's a fantastic blade. I also got the handle with the horn and the matching saya. The fit of the saya is perfect.
 
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