What cuts better than a Denka?

[stringer]

In that example didn’t you rather mean « less margin…than with a [lower] HRC »?

Yeah, edited, thanks

 

[Cliff]

My Denka is super thin behind the edge but rather beefy higher up. I prefer thinner, softer knives for hard stuff, as Stringer says. Thinner is more important than softer -- Y Tanaka B1 works great, too. But things like my massive Kurouchi Wat 270 get used for softer produce.

 

[EricEricEric]

Isamitsu AS

 

[ModRQC]

Yeah, edited, thanks

Not to correct you... But for an instant there I thought I'd been wildly mistaken on some concepts for a long while. You don't tend to misspeak, and I don't have that level of absolute certainty that I didn't second guess myself and second read your post. Thanks for ultimately clarifying.

 

[fatboylim]

What about buttercup squash and sweet potatoes? Is you also recommend ginga and masamoto ks for those?

I had the same thought too. My Masamoto KS was good once you broke through the butternut squash. For me it didn't have the power and wedged too much at the heel for the first breakdown of the butternut squash. The KS has a lovely distal taper and slices so well. But my Denka performed better. That said, I did get a good Denka example. The KS for me is a better all round knife, but not quite as sharp, powerful or thin.

Just my experience though.

 

[Cliff]

It may depend which generation KS you have. Newer ones tend to me more on the laser side. Even my 270 is pretty thin. If your Denka is super thin, then no worries about hard stuff, apart from torque.

 

[labor of love]

So my thoughts on my 210 Yo Denka Gyuto.

It's one of the thinnest, stiffest, toughest, sharpest and powerful blades I have tried (and still own). It also lacks food release the ability to rock chop with it's low tip.

So I tested out 50 knives between my friends collection and mine that included many of the names already listed and more expensive than the Denka. Yet its performance was unmatched on hard veg e.g. Large carrots and butternut squash.

The Denka is the reason I love Aogami Super steel.

Interestingly, the only knife that equals the Denka in performance is a thin chinese vegetable cleaver. But the cleaver has a limited tip, blunts faster and food release is worse and relies too heavily on power by its height. The Denka achieves all of this at half the height!

So these are my theories to it's performance,
1. Thinness due to hollow grind (and hence the poor food release)
2. Stiffness due to San Mai weld forged (not lamented steel)
3. Sharpness due to High HRC
4. Tough Edge retention due to Aogami Super steel
5. Power due to slighty increased blade height

So when I rotate between other knives, I have better rock choppers (Hiromoto honyaki) , better food release knives (Kiyoshi Kato WH Nakiri) and more finely finished slicers (Ittetsu Ikeda/Oni honyaki).

There is no holy grail knife. The Denka does fulfill the Specialist performance knife on tough vegetables role and is fun to sharpen and chop!

But, I have two Kiri Cleavers to try out soon so perhaps the Denka can be equalled!

We are lucky to have great choices in different knives! I absolutely love my Denka but only for its specialist role.

I’m extremely jealous of your Denka. Saw the pics you posted couple weeks ago. Really flat profile (which I love) so many of the new ones are really curvy, that’s the thing I look for most when I’m TF shopping tbh

 

[Migraine]

Mad not to see Catcheside mentioned in this thread (as far as I can see).

Insane cutters.

 

[fatboylim]

Mad not to see Catcheside mentioned in this thread (as far as I can see).

Insane cutters.

I haven't tried those yet!

 

[fatboylim]

I’m extremely jealous of your Denka. Saw the pics you posted couple weeks ago. Really flat profile (which I love) so many of the new ones are really curvy, that’s the thing I look for most when I’m TF shopping tbh

Yeah I have a good one! It really is so much fun to chop with.

 

[Choppin]

"Softer" lasers are the perfect tool for hard veggies. And ginga/ks at 60-62 are classic examples. A denka would work great too. But less margin for error for torque fracture than with a lower HRC.

+1. Love my Ashi for that, also CCK 1302 and a 11” vintage Sab that’s quite thin 1/3 close to the tip.

 

[fatboylim]

+1. Love my Ashi for that, also CCK 1302 and a 11” vintage Sab that’s quite thin 1/3 close to the tip.

I don't have the Ashi but the CCK 1303 is great for this too. I upgraded to the Masahiro tx-101 recently too!

 

[SwampDonkey]

great writeup!

do you have any other favorites for hard veggies, maybe 2nd and 3rd place behind the Denka? I'm always looking for the best knife for that...

Squash Bustin Championship

After receiving some wonderful suggestions on a 240 gyuto and questioning what constitutes The Ideal Squash Knife, I decided to have a little squash bustin playoff instead of watching my football team get their ass kicked tonight. I ended up with a Kochi 240 ironclad, a Shigeki Tanaka ginsan...

www.kitchenknifeforums.com

I wrote this a while ago but it holds pretty true. Still like my S. Tanaka quite a bit, the Makoto Ryusei 240 is also surprisingly pleasant for squash/sweet potatoes. Kinda like those midweight-ish knives since they're stiffer and don't suffer the stiction issues that some lasers do.

 

[NordicBurr]

Im no chef. Not by a long shot. I just enjoy cooking immensely.
My old trusty knives were from Zwilling which I used for some 20 years. One day I tried my friends japanese kitchen knife. It was a revalation. I found this great forum with all of you experienced guys and girls and it did not take long to see that if you wanted some of the best knives opinion was that TF was a good choice. So I ordered three knives directly from TF website (Gyoto, Nakiri and a Petty knife with those wood covers - I forgot the names of them). I had to wait for 2 years for them to arrive (oh my it was a long wait). Needles to say when I finally got them I was excited. And now that I have used them for about a year I am still so happy to use them. Using Japanese knives are really a different experience. Only problem now is that I really do not see myself needing any other knives. I also got two Hasegawa cutting boards which actually was another great revelation (if you havent tried these you should really research and maybe try).
Im sure there are a lot of amazing knives made from other knife-makers. Maybe even knives equally good. Cheaper even. Since these are my first and will hopefully be my last there are other forum members here who can make much better qualified advice than I can.
Really I would just like to thank you all for this forum and for introducing me to the world of knife making. To have a global forum like this where someone like me can seek advice and get inspired is special. So THANK YOU - and forgive me for getting hopelessly out of topic

Greeting too you all and have a wonderful weekend.

Daniel
Copenhagen, Denmark

 

[fatboylim]

Squash Bustin Championship

After receiving some wonderful suggestions on a 240 gyuto and questioning what constitutes The Ideal Squash Knife, I decided to have a little squash bustin playoff instead of watching my football team get their ass kicked tonight. I ended up with a Kochi 240 ironclad, a Shigeki Tanaka ginsan...

www.kitchenknifeforums.com

I wrote this a while ago but it holds pretty true. Still like my S. Tanaka quite a bit, the Makoto Ryusei 240 is also surprisingly pleasant for squash/sweet potatoes. Kinda like those midweight-ish knives since they're stiffer and don't suffer the stiction issues that some lasers do.

The S. Tanaka is such a good knife for the price. Where my Denka performed better over the S. Tanaka is, the Denka is taller giving more power through the blade and thinner behind the edge. My Denka is another level over my S. Tanaka (whose petty I still own)!

Steel wise, tougher knives I prefer Aogami Super. For delicate or slicing knives I prefer White or Blue steels. Just me though.

 

[SwampDonkey]

The S. Tanaka is such a good knife for the price. Where my Denka performed better over the S. Tanaka is, the Denka is taller giving more power through the blade and thinner behind the edge. My Denka is another level over my S. Tanaka (whose petty I still own)!

Steel wise, tougher knives I prefer Aogami Super. For delicate or slicing knives I prefer White or Blue steels. Just me though.

Pure curiosity but what is your Denka height? My Tanaka 240 is 55 mm tall, though my Cook's Edge version is a different profile and taller than the K&S version

 

[fatboylim]

Pure curiosity but what is your Denka height? My Tanaka 240 is 55 mm tall, though my Cook's Edge version is a different profile and taller than the K&S version

Very similar height and very interesting upgraded S. Tanaka you have! Similar to a cleaver having height and power through the blade, it sounds like your upgraded S. Tanaka has this too!

 

[Choppin]

Squash Bustin Championship

After receiving some wonderful suggestions on a 240 gyuto and questioning what constitutes The Ideal Squash Knife, I decided to have a little squash bustin playoff instead of watching my football team get their ass kicked tonight. I ended up with a Kochi 240 ironclad, a Shigeki Tanaka ginsan...

www.kitchenknifeforums.com

I wrote this a while ago but it holds pretty true. Still like my S. Tanaka quite a bit, the Makoto Ryusei 240 is also surprisingly pleasant for squash/sweet potatoes. Kinda like those midweight-ish knives since they're stiffer and don't suffer the stiction issues that some lasers do.

That’s cool. I just recalled my 210 Toyama nakiri was fantastic on butternut squash. Better to use it with attention and avoid peeling though.

 

[fatboylim]

That’s cool. I just recalled my 210 Toyama nakiri was fantastic on butternut squash. Better to use it with attention and avoid peeling though.

The Toyama 210 Nakiri was a cooooool knife. Weight and height combined, but not so nimble. Really enjoyed the Toyama 240 gyuto iron clad too. The Kiyoshi Kato took the workhorse slot and with the Denka lazering everything hard veg, it meant the all rounder in the Toyama Gyuto got left out.

I should have kept that Toyota 210 Nakiri though! But I bought (and since sold) a CCK and generally went to cleavers to replace the tall Nakiri... I'm full circle now trying out Kiri Cleavers!

 

[Choppin]

The Toyama 210 Nakiri was a cooooool knife. Weight and height combined, but not so nimble. Really enjoyed the 240 gyuto iron clad too. The Kiyoshi Kato took the workhorse slot and with the Denka lazering everything hard veg, it meant the all rounder in the Toyama Gyuto got left out.

I should have kept that Toyota 210 Nakiri though! But I bought (and since sold) a CCK and generally went to cleavers to replace the tall Nakiri... I'm full circle now trying out Kiri Cleavers!

Yeah I really liked my 210 Toyama nakiri, ended up selling it and sometimes find myself missing it.

I sold it because I couldn’t find a good grip for it. It’s very forward balanced so my brain wanted to hold it like a cleaver (two fingers on the blade) but it’s not tall enough for that. And a regular pinch grip just didn’t feel right due to the balance. I should have rehandled it and tried again.

I sold it and got a 1302, which I really like. Feels very different but serves the same purpose.

 

[shobudonnie]

What about the nine? I know I will never be able to obtain one of these. How does it stack up against a Denka?

 

[fatboylim]

What about the nine? I know I will never be able to obtain one of these. How does it stack up against a Denka?

Unfortunately I only have longer term experience with Japanese makers.