Bought a Masahiro carbon steel 330 mm gyuto - any knowledge on it?

[Knivperson]

Been looking for a long gyuto for some time, and when this came up I bought it.

Does anyone know of how it performs, what the steel is and how hard it is? Considering maybe sending it for thinning and a kasumi polish.

Any experience?

https://carbonknifeco.com/products/...0mm-new-old-stock?_pos=7&_sid=c7cd70b3c&_ss=r
It's in transit atm, btw.

/Knivperson

 

[deltaplex]

The general consensus is that the Virgin Carbon monos (like the one linked above) are all some specialty run of Takefu V2 made for them and they HT them in the HRC 62-63 range.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/help-with-mystery-japanese-steel.37597/

 

[deltaplex]

Also: since it's a monosteel knife adding a kasumi finish won't have the contrast between the steel types that you'd see if it were a clad knife; in my experience they do benefit from a thinning.

 

[Knivperson]

Thanks.

 

[Benuser]

A good occasion to thin the left side as well and, if you wish, slightly ease its asymmetry by moving the edge a bit.

 

[Cliff]

I have seen them mentioned as fairly hard V2 pretty often, but their US importer lists them at Rockwell 59-60, which feels about right on my gyuto:

https://www.sointuusa.com/brand_masahiro/

 

[deltaplex]

I have seen them mentioned as fairly hard V2 pretty often, but their US importer lists them at Rockwell 59-60, which feels about right on my gyuto:

https://www.sointuusa.com/brand_masahiro/

The MV stainless ones are all in that 58-60 range, I've seen more reports that the carbon ones are (or were) run to a higher hardness than the stainless.

 

[Knivperson]

A good occasion to thin the left side as well and, if you wish, slightly ease its asymmetry by moving the edge a bit.

This masahiro i linked to from ckc is the same as the vc one? I v2 steel which is similar to blue 2?

 

[deltaplex]

This masahiro i linked to from ckc is the same as the vc one? I v2 steel which is similar to blue 2?

Yeah, that's a VC, vintage stock though. V2 in general is kind if in between shirogami 2 and aogami 2, no one knows exactly (that I've seen) what the Masahiro "special" version of it is though.

 

[Cliff]

Older ones may have had harder V2 (or their proprietary version of it), but the current versions of the VC are listed at 59-60

 

[pleue]

I have a 270 suji. I sharpen it asymmetrically and lean into the geometry. Handle is chonky. Steel is nice, doesn't feel that hard but not squishy either. Could be thinned but I'd play with it before you send it out. If 330 isn't your cup of tea, holler at me.

I don't see a need to polish a knife like this. I'd probably coffee etch it and start beating it up.

 

[Knivperson]

I have a 270 suji. I sharpen it asymmetrically and lean into the geometry. Handle is chonky. Steel is nice, doesn't feel that hard but not squishy either. Could be thinned but I'd play with it before you send it out. If 330 isn't your cup of tea, holler at me.

I don't see a need to polish a knife like this. I'd probably coffee etch it and start beating it up.

Will do.

 

[Knivperson]

Question: once I break the knife in, will it go from VC to just C? Wait... Maybe it's listed as just carbon because it's old stock?

 

[kpham12]

I also bought one of the vintage Masahiros. I wanted to compare to my 300 mm “modern” Masahiro gyuto.

The “modern” Masahiro is very asymmetric and decently thin BTE for a mass produced knife. Cuts well, can steer a little. The surface of the knife can be a little sticky before you get some patina on it, but afterwards, food release is actually quite good due to the asymmetrical grind.

Steel is very good IMO, behaves like a typical low alloy simple carbon steel with a good heat treat. Easy to sharpen and deburr cleanly. Edge retention is good, especially after thinning and resharpening at a more acute angle. It’s not a super steel or anything, but can last through a shift in a prep kitchen fine and is really easy to touch up. I can’t say what the actual HRC is, but after a good amount of use, I would guess north of 60, but maybe not all the way up to 63. I like the steel better than the SK steels I’ve tried which are more commonly used in these types of gyuto.

I have noticed that older/vintage Kanto style gyutos like the Masahiro tend to be noticeably thinner BTE than the modern mass produced ones. They also seem to have more hand grinding and convexing done to them as well compared to the ones available today which I would think have more automation in the production process. Handles are usually a bit nicer too on the older ones.

This is my 300 mm Masahiro after about 2.5 hours of thinning.


Also, here is a 210 mm Masahiro VC after about 1-1.5 hours of thinning.

Question: once I break the knife in, will it go from VC to just C? Wait... Maybe it's listed as just carbon because it's old stock?

I believe the Virgin in Virgin Carbon is used to refer to the fact that the steel used in the knife has not been used for anything else prior to that. Like the knife was not made from melted down tools, leaf springs, etc. I think the term is used by producers to indicate that the knife is of high quality. For example, the Suien knives at JKI are also sold as VC.

 

[Knivperson]

I also bought one of the vintage Masahiros. I wanted to compare to my 300 mm “modern” Masahiro gyuto.

The “modern” Masahiro is very asymmetric and decently thin BTE for a mass produced knife. Cuts well, can steer a little. The surface of the knife can be a little sticky before you get some patina on it, but afterwards, food release is actually quite good due to the asymmetrical grind.

Steel is very good IMO, behaves like a typical low alloy simple carbon steel with a good heat treat. Easy to sharpen and deburr cleanly. Edge retention is good, especially after thinning and resharpening at a more acute angle. It’s not a super steel or anything, but can last through a shift in a prep kitchen fine and is really easy to touch up. I can’t say what the actual HRC is, but after a good amount of use, I would guess north of 60, but maybe not all the way up to 63. I like the steel better than the SK steels I’ve tried which are more commonly used in these types of gyuto.

I have noticed that older/vintage Kanto style gyutos like the Masahiro tend to be noticeably thinner BTE than the modern mass produced ones. They also seem to have more hand grinding and convexing done to them as well compared to the ones available today which I would think have more automation in the production process. Handles are usually a bit nicer too on the older ones.

This is my 300 mm Masahiro after about 2.5 hours of thinning.


Also, here is a 210 mm Masahiro VC after about 1-1.5 hours of thinning.



I believe the Virgin in Virgin Carbon is used to refer to the fact that the steel used in the knife has not been used for anything else prior to that. Like the knife was not made from melted down tools, leaf springs, etc. I think the term is used by producers to indicate that the knife is of high quality. For example, the Suien knives at JKI are also sold as VC.

Great reply thanks a lot. It will be here tomorrow. Will try it out ootb, sharpen it and try again and see if I think it needs thinning. Found your video on yt yesterday. They cut excellently i think!

The old stock one i ordered is also mass produce right? What does that mean compared to say my dalman or kamon?

 

[kpham12]

Great reply thanks a lot. It will be here tomorrow. Will try it out ootb, sharpen it and try again and see if I think it needs thinning. Found your video on yt yesterday. They cut excellently i think!

The old stock one i ordered is also mass produce right? What does that mean compared to say my dalman or kamon?

Lol, definitely not going to out cut a Dalman or Kamon, but the old stock Kanto style gyutos I’ve tried tend to be thinner with smoother grinds. They tend to be closer to knives made by producers like Ashi Hamono while the newer ones are usually not ground as thin. So I would think the vintage Masahiros would need less thinning than the regular ones, if any. Plus, you’re buying a 330 mm gyuto. I don’t know if you’ve used really big knives like 270+ before, but at that length, the weight of the knife does a lot of the work so a 330 should just fall through a lot of stuff without much effort.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

...

I believe the Virgin in Virgin Carbon is used to refer to the fact that the steel used in the knife has not been used for anything else prior to that. Like the knife was not made from melted down tools, leaf springs, etc. I think the term is used by producers to indicate that the knife is of high quality. For example, the Suien knives at JKI are also sold as VC.

In the casting world, this is correct. "Virgin" means all raw materials with no reclaim.

I don't know for sure about in the steel world, but in my world reclaim can mean impurities and oxides.

 

[Benuser]

I wouldn't be surprised if some retailers deliberately for commercial reasons this time underestimate the hardness of the Masahiro VC, as they are relatively inexpensive. My guess — only based on comparison — would be 61-62Rc. 59Rc doesn't correspond at all with my experience.

 

[blokey]

Great reply thanks a lot. It will be here tomorrow. Will try it out ootb, sharpen it and try again and see if I think it needs thinning. Found your video on yt yesterday. They cut excellently i think!

The old stock one i ordered is also mass produce right? What does that mean compared to say my dalman or kamon?

For hand made knives, especially Kamon, the grind will be much more complicated, what you have at the heel will be drastically different from the tip, from grind height, convexity to thinness, for most production knives the grind will be very similar all the way.

 

[Knivperson]

First cut: