Brazilian Cherry Wood for Cutting Board

[PPIIBBSS]

I'm currently deciding between a Hinoki board and a Brazilian Cherry board.

I am leaning toward the cherry board, as it's a gorgeous board from a small craftsman who I'd like to support, but I'm worried that the wood may be too hard.

I've seen lists and charts which show that Hinoki is significantly softer than Brazilian Cherry (yet the cherry contains no sililca).

Can anyone with experience in this area help to enlighten me on the pros and cons of choosing this wood over Hinoki?

Thanks a ton!
Sky

 

[McMan]

Wood database is a good resource:
https://www.wood-database.com/jatoba/
Looks like Brazilian cherry (jatoba) is twice as hard as maple. If you've found a like a guy you like/trust, perhaps you could discuss what other woods he works with. "Brazilian cherry" looks like it's somewhat of a catch-all term, though, so it might be used in reference to something that's not jatoba.

 

[PPIIBBSS]

Wood database is a good resource:
https://www.wood-database.com/jatoba/
Looks like Brazilian cherry (jatoba) is twice as hard as maple. If you've found a like a guy you like/trust, perhaps you could discuss what other woods he works with. "Brazilian cherry" looks like it's somewhat of a catch-all term, though, so it might be used in reference to something that's not jatoba.

I believe it is Jatoba

Wood database is a good resource:
https://www.wood-database.com/jatoba/
Looks like Brazilian cherry (jatoba) is twice as hard as maple. If you've found a like a guy you like/trust, perhaps you could discuss what other woods he works with. "Brazilian cherry" looks like it's somewhat of a catch-all term, though, so it might be used in reference to something that's not jatoba.

I believe he is working with Jatoba. Is Jatoba generally considered good for edge retention? It seems very very hard, which worries me just enough to ask haha

 

[McMan]

I believe it is Jatoba

I believe he is working with Jatoba. Is Jatoba generally considered good for edge retention? It seems very very hard, which worries me just enough to ask haha

Personally, I would avoid something twice as hard as maple.

 

[ReiHamono]

Will it be end grain?

 

[captaincaed]

I have a board that’s half maple half Jatoba. It’s as hard as they say. It’s better than poly, but wouldn’t be my first choice.

My favorite board is pine. Super easy on edges. Totally not the “sexy” wood but it’s very functional. Absorbs tons of oil too, has never needed re-oiling in the 2 years since I made it. My 2c.

 

[Ruso]

I have a board that’s half maple half Jatoba. It’s as hard as they say. It’s better than poly, but wouldn’t be my first choice.

My favorite board is pine. Super easy on edges. Totally not the “sexy” wood but it’s very functional. Absorbs tons of oil too, has never needed re-oiling in the 2 years since I made it. My 2c.

Any problems with sap and/or pine smell?

 

[SwampDonkey]

Teak is my preferred. Nice hardness level, smells good, has lots of natural oils so it's less likely to warp than maple/walnut/cherry and stands up well in my humid environment.

The higher silica content than maple doesn't really matter unless you're a professional spending hours a day on the board or you rock chop exclusively and there's an absurd amount of board contact, even then it will take a long time to show for a hoke cook. I don't notice any edge difference between cherry end grain and teak end grain. I'd definitely advise end-grain though, and something at least 1.5" thick in whatever wood you choose.

This is a Teakhaus one:

 

[captaincaed]

Any problems with sap and/or pine smell?

I haven't noticed any. The mineral oil soak really tampa down anything like that. My sample size is 1, but the larch board company is basically using a pine variety and they've done pretty well.

End vs edge grain has little impact on edge life. Silica and hardness are the culprits, in that order.

 

[adrianopedro]

I'm currently deciding between a Hinoki board and a Brazilian Cherry board.

I am leaning toward the cherry board, as it's a gorgeous board from a small craftsman who I'd like to support, but I'm worried that the wood may be too hard.

I've seen lists and charts which show that Hinoki is significantly softer than Brazilian Cherry (yet the cherry contains no sililca).

Can anyone with experience in this area help to enlighten me on the pros and cons of choosing this wood over Hinoki?

Thanks a ton!
Sky

Brazilian Cherry Wood is called Amburana, it's a very soft wood perfect for cutting boards. It's all I use to cook and cut meat in my work events.

 

[PPIIBBSS]

Brazilian Cherry Wood is called Amburana, it's a very soft wood perfect for cutting boards. It's all I use to cook and cut meat in my work events.

Well as to be expected from the internet, I've gotten very mixed answers haha. I'll have to ask the maker to be more specific about what he means by "Brazilian Cherry."

 

[adrianopedro]

Well as to be expected from the internet, I've gotten very mixed answers haha. I'll have to ask the maker to be more specific about what he means by "Brazilian Cherry."

That's the one I'm talking about, and very common here in Brazil for cutting boards, has no silica.

https://www.wood-database.com/cerejeira/
Amburana cearensis

 

[captaincaed]

I just realized I was thinking of Brazilian Redwood, my bad.

 

[dglevy]

I haven't noticed any. The mineral oil soak really tampa down anything like that. My sample size is 1, but the larch board company is basically using a pine variety and they've done pretty well.

End vs edge grain has little impact on edge life. Silica and hardness are the culprits, in that order.

I'm a fan of pine too.The wood is cheap and its easy to make a cutting board at home with few tools. But are you saying that end versus edge grain has little impact on knife edge life, in general? That's surprising to me. I thought the consensus was that end grain is better for edge retention.

 

[captaincaed]

That's the internet echo chamber consensus. But any remotely scientific test I've ever seen doesn't bear that out. After 15 years of woodworking, INTENTIONALLY cutting into wood and reaharpening hand tools, the wood species has way more impact on blunting than any other factor. Silica content and hardness drive blunting through a combination of abrasion and chipping.

The Americas Test Kitchen test is the best I've seen, and shows no real difference. Matches my own experience.

Any stories about "the edge slides between the wood fibers" is just nonsense. Try cutting on a board and fitting your edge between rock maple fibers. Good luck. Rubbish.

What end grain DOES do well is hide cutting scars over time. Edge grain gets noticeably more scuffed. On the other hand, one pass with a hand plane, or 10" with a sandpaper progression, and my edge grain looks good as new. End grain needs a router or drum sander to flatten. That's a lot more tooling. Hand sanding end grain is like polishing honyaki. Shoot me.

 

[captaincaed]

The article is pay only, but if anyone has access, I seem to recall they had a section on using a robot for end vs edge grain tests.

 

[Jovidah]

That's the internet echo chamber consensus. But any remotely scientific test I've ever seen doesn't bear that out. After 15 years of woodworking, INTENTIONALLY cutting into wood and reaharpening hand tools, the wood species has way more impact on blunting than any other factor. Silica content and hardness drive blunting through a combination of abrasion and chipping.

The Americas Test Kitchen test is the best I've seen, and shows no real difference. Matches my own experience.

Any stories about "the edge slides between the wood fibers" is just nonsense. Try cutting on a board and fitting your edge between rock maple fibers. Good luck. Rubbish.

What end grain DOES do well is hide cutting scars over time. Edge grain gets noticeably more scuffed. On the other hand, one pass with a hand plane, or 10" with a sandpaper progression, and my edge grain looks good as new. End grain needs a router or drum sander to flatten. That's a lot more tooling. Hand sanding end grain is like polishing honyaki. Shoot me.

The problem with all the 'scientific tests' so far was that all the ones I've seen were severely flawed... to the point that their results become meaningless. Sample size too small, assuming 'factory knives' have perfect equal sharpness, only focusing on slicing vs chopping action. ATK literally has the robot cutting in the exact same spot for the entire test length. It should be possible to test this properly, in a way that reflects actual home or pro usage, but as of yet no one I've seen has actually done this.
It doesn't help that places like ATK have a reference for sharpness that's basically 'running a Victorinox through an electric sharpener'.

It's also possible that there's an interaction effect where it will show up more or less depending on species (for example depending on silicate content). All of my experience is on European beech wood... where even just the cutting feel is very different. Edge-grain vs end-grain beech wood the cutting feedback changes drastically, and for the better - though I won't speculate on the mechanics. But it makes it hard to go along with 'there is absolutely no difference' when the feel and sound alone changes so much.

Agreed, you also see far less damage on an end-grain board but for me - putting retention aside for a moment - the difference in cutting feel is enough to make it worth it.These days my knife usage is too eratic / spread out over too many knives it say anything sensible about edge retention anymore, but at the time when I made the switch the difference was noticable enough to make it difficult to write it off as entirely placebo (especially since the end-grain board was cheap).

I agree with you that hardness and silicate levels can also wreak havoc on your edges. Using a bamboo board for my bread knife was a really bad call... and after they started to feel and sound like 'scraping with sand' I've also lost a lot of my enthusiasm for even bamboo utensils.
Regarding hardness I've seen 'sweetspot' janka scale numbers floating around in the past.

But as a European it's really easy; go for beech wood; it's been the OG standard for a reason...and it's actually the affordable option too!

 

[TB_London]

I skim my endgrain maple boardsmith with hand planes, it’s barely needed doing in the years I’ve had it though.

To OP Are you home cook and ok at sharpening? If so most wood boards will be fine, just may need to retouch an edge once a month instead of every two.
Feel and feedback is something that would make using it nice or nasty so that’d be my focus.

 

[rickbern]

That's the internet echo chamber consensus. But any remotely scientific test I've ever seen doesn't bear that out. After 15 years of woodworking, INTENTIONALLY cutting into wood and reaharpening hand tools, the wood species has way more impact on blunting than any other factor. Silica content and hardness drive blunting through a combination of abrasion and chipping.

The Americas Test Kitchen test is the best I've seen, and shows no real difference. Matches my own experience.

Any stories about "the edge slides between the wood fibers" is just nonsense. Try cutting on a board and fitting your edge between rock maple fibers. Good luck. Rubbish.

What end grain DOES do well is hide cutting scars over time. Edge grain gets noticeably more scuffed. On the other hand, one pass with a hand plane, or 10" with a sandpaper progression, and my edge grain looks good as new. End grain needs a router or drum sander to flatten. That's a lot more tooling. Hand sanding end grain is like polishing honyaki. Shoot me.

@captaincaed, I have a thirty year old board I’ve only used for carving roasts that could use a refresh. Edge grain American cherry. What progression? Like knives, 240-320-400?

 

[naptight]

I'd definitely advise end-grain though, and something at least 1.5" thick in whatever you choose.

I just finished a big maple and grain board and it's so heavy! Its 2" thick. I was thinking about turning it into two 1" boards to half the weight. Why do you think The board needs to be at least one and a half inches thick? Why are most cutting boards so thick?

 

[SwampDonkey]

I just finished a big maple and grain board and it's so heavy! Its 2" thick. I was thinking about turning it into two 1" boards to half the weight. Why do you think The board needs to be at least one and a half inches thick? Why are most cutting boards so thick?

The thickness helps mitigate warping. 1" thick boards are going to warp a lot more easily than 1.5" or 2" ones.

 

[naptight]

Even though it's huge it was only like $40 in materials. I'm tempted to just resaw it. I use rubber feet, get both sides wet when walking, and have a rack to get even airflow around it whole drying.

 

[John Loftis]

The article is pay only, but if anyone has access, I seem to recall they had a section on using a robot for end vs edge grain tests.

That’s my butcher block in the front of the review thumbnail. I tried hard to get the data from their study but they wouldn’t share it. They have a long-standing relationship with Teakhaus, which is fine. They rated us #2 in that study, which was disappointing but they are dancing with who brung ‘em.

 

[John Loftis]

Even though it's huge it was only like $40 in materials. I'm tempted to just resaw it. I use rubber feet, get both sides wet when walking, and have a rack to get even airflow around it whole drying.

Swamp donkey is exactly right. It will likely warp. There’s a correlation between surface area and the thickness an end grain board needs to be. I have a ridiculous amount of data points on this.

 

[John Loftis]

The problem with all the 'scientific tests' so far was that all the ones I've seen were severely flawed... to the point that their results become meaningless. Sample size too small, assuming 'factory knives' have perfect equal sharpness, only focusing on slicing vs chopping action. ATK literally has the robot cutting in the exact same spot for the entire test length. It should be possible to test this properly, in a way that reflects actual home or pro usage, but as of yet no one I've seen has actually done this.
It doesn't help that places like ATK have a reference for sharpness that's basically 'running a Victorinox through an electric sharpener'.

It's also possible that there's an interaction effect where it will show up more or less depending on species (for example depending on silicate content). All of my experience is on European beech wood... where even just the cutting feel is very different. Edge-grain vs end-grain beech wood the cutting feedback changes drastically, and for the better - though I won't speculate on the mechanics. But it makes it hard to go along with 'there is absolutely no difference' when the feel and sound alone changes so much.

Agreed, you also see far less damage on an end-grain board but for me - putting retention aside for a moment - the difference in cutting feel is enough to make it worth it.These days my knife usage is too eratic / spread out over too many knives it say anything sensible about edge retention anymore, but at the time when I made the switch the difference was noticable enough to make it difficult to write it off as entirely placebo (especially since the end-grain board was cheap).

I agree with you that hardness and silicate levels can also wreak havoc on your edges. Using a bamboo board for my bread knife was a really bad call... and after they started to feel and sound like 'scraping with sand' I've also lost a lot of my enthusiasm for even bamboo utensils.
Regarding hardness I've seen 'sweetspot' janka scale numbers floating around in the past.

But as a European it's really easy; go for beech wood; it's been the OG standard for a reason...and it's actually the affordable option too!

Great thoughts. The minute ATK said silica-laden wood had no impact on edge retention, alarm bells should have been ringing. We all love a good contrarian, I guess… to be the one (or endorse the one) whose insight dumps conventional wisdom on its ear.

I like edge grain beech. It’s cheap and durable. Not sexy, but solid.

 

[John Loftis]

@captaincaed, I have a thirty year old board I’ve only used for carving roasts that could use a refresh. Edge grain American cherry. What progression? Like knives, 240-320-400?

80-120-180 should be fine

 

[naptight]

Swamp donkey is exactly right. It will likely warp. There’s a correlation between surface area and the thickness an end grain board needs to be. I have a ridiculous amount of data points on this.

Do you have any ideas on making them lighter or easier to handle? I used 9 board feet to make it, so it's a beast.

I also like beech for a light colored hardwood for furniture making. It mills nice and easy like walnut but it's less than half the price.

 

[John Loftis]

I'm currently deciding between a Hinoki board and a Brazilian Cherry board.

I am leaning toward the cherry board, as it's a gorgeous board from a small craftsman who I'd like to support, but I'm worried that the wood may be too hard.

I've seen lists and charts which show that Hinoki is significantly softer than Brazilian Cherry (yet the cherry contains no sililca).

Can anyone with experience in this area help to enlighten me on the pros and cons of choosing this wood over Hinoki?

Thanks a ton!
Sk

As others have noted, Jatoba is really hard (and open pored). I can’t remember if it’s loaded with silica, but based on its density it probably is. Hinoki has a lot of fans in the Japanese knife community, in part because it’s a tree native to Japan and therefore a popular wood for cutting boards there. It is a softwood (cypress) and smells nice. Based on its softness and edge grain orientation, it tends to be much less durable.

So… it depends on what you are going for. If you want a long lasting, durable board that is gentle on knife edges, my screening criteria would be: end grain, hardwood, Janka hardness in the 800-1600 range, no silica, small-ish pores.

 

[John Loftis]

Do you have any ideas on making them lighter or easier to handle? I used 9 board feet to make it, so it's a beast.

I also like beech for a light colored hardwood for furniture making. It mills nice and easy like walnut but it's less than half the price.

What are the dimensions of your board?

 

[captaincaed]

That’s my butcher block in the front of the review thumbnail. I tried hard to get the data from their study but they wouldn’t share it. They have a long-standing relationship with Teakhaus, which is fine. They rated us #2 in that study, which was disappointing but they are dancing with who brung ‘em.

Wow nice!

Teak is for boats. I take ATK with a huge grain of salt. They're very hard on equipment.