Carbon Steel Pans...My Exploration Is Over

[esoo]

I just saw this headline recently - haven't had a chance to read it over:
https://www.popsci.com/diy/make-stainless-steel-non-stick/

 

[boomchakabowwow]

Here is my Matfer Bourgeat pan I bought when this thread started. It is seasoned about as good as I can get it. The chain mail I have keeps the carbon from getting thick and flaking. I have no flaking in my food. I am playing with other stuff now, so I am not using it a lot right now.

View attachment 204745

carbon copy of my pan. hahah..pun!! a freaking pun!!

 

[Michi]

I just saw this headline recently - haven't had a chance to read it over:
https://www.popsci.com/diy/make-stainless-steel-non-stick/

Starting with a properly pre-heated stainless steel pan definitely reduces sticking. Meat will still stick itself to the surface but, if you just leave it alone for two or three minutes, it will end up coming loose by itself (or nearly so).

 

[sansho]

lol.
even though you can use the leidenfrost effect with a drop of water to roughly gauge the pan's temp, it's not the lidenfrost effect that reduces sticking. that makes no sense.

 

[Michi]

What reduces sticking is a hot-enough surface. If the pan is too cold, the meat sort of bonds itself to the surface and, eventually, you have to tear it loose, often with bits of meat remaining on the surface. If the pan is hot enough to begin with, that doesn't happen.

 

[DavidScubadiver]

There is nothing wrong with adding fat to a pan for cooking. Whether it’s a spritz of avocado oil, a dab of bitter, a glob of ghee. No more is needed to keep eggs and crepes from sticking to your preheated stainless or carbon pan.

Nonstick pans suck because you use them beyond their useful life and wind up with a ****** pan that probably poisons you. Maybe it isn’t even waiting until it is ****** before it does so.

What I’m not sure about, frankly, is why mear sticks but crepes don’t. I like that it does (because I like the fond) but not sure why the pan grabs one and not the other.

 

[ian]

lol.
even though you can use the leidenfrost effect with a drop of water to roughly gauge the pan's temp, it's not the lidenfrost effect that reduces sticking. that makes no sense.

Leidenfrost means that there’s an insulating vapor layer that keeps the water from boiling rapidly, no? Maybe they’re focusing just on the existence of a vapor layer. At least theoretically, I can maybe imagine there being a vapor layer underneath some onions I’m sauteeing, coming from the evaporating water content, and I can imagine it contributing to the onions sliding. Not that onions stick much anyway…. Although when you’re sauteeing something so moisture laden, the pan often gets pretty wet pretty quick, so probably you don’t have the same heat differential that you do when you watch a bead of water skate, so probably there’s no vapor layer?

 

[mengwong]

Agreed … I'm thinking of the giant domes of steam that sometimes form under eggs … and of the rapid escape of water vapour from potatoes in the deep fryer … that phenomenon at a smaller scale could well lift the food from the pan, so long as it's hot enough to sizzle. That's the other benefit of the jet engines under commercial woks … it's not about the seasoning, it's about the heat!

 

[sansho]

Leidenfrost means that there’s an insulating vapor layer that keeps the water from boiling rapidly, no? Maybe they’re focusing just on the existence of a vapor layer. At least theoretically, I can maybe imagine there being a vapor layer underneath some onions I’m sauteeing, coming from the evaporating water content, and I can imagine it contributing to the onions sliding. Not that onions stick much anyway…. Although when you’re sauteeing something so moisture laden, the pan often gets pretty wet pretty quick, so probably you don’t have the same heat differential that you do when you watch a bead of water skate, so probably there’s no vapor layer?

yes, but the article seems to focus on searing meat. it does have some interesting theories about other contributions to the meat-sticks-less-if-you-start-with-hot-pan-effect (but really, it's more like meat releases better after a bit of cooking if you start with hot pan). it talks about metal surface pore size and protein interaction with iron... idk if that stuff is bs though.

but it also claims that the leidenfrost effect is responsible for this. i'm not buying it. the effect is a marked reduction in heat transfer by contact with vapor and not the dense phase. even if you start with room temp (and not frozen) food, i don't think the pan temp stays above the leidenfrost point locally. also, a piece of meat is heavy, and that helps ensure good contact. and sometimes, you even press it into the surface with a spatula for even better sticking (better heat transfer).

i'm not sure exactly what's going on, but i think good formation of dry, maillard-y crust is a key part of it. maybe it sticks better to the meat above than to the pan below. i wonder if there's a paper about it somewhere.

 

[ian]

i don't think the pan temp stays above the leidenfrost point locally.

Yea, that seems likely in these situations.

 

[mengwong]

Update…

I had managed to “strip the seasoning” – exactly where the nightshades were, the black had gone to silver:

After a salt scrub and some use by others I discovered the wok was now rusty! How exciting!


I boiled water in the wok for about two minutes hoping to convert Fe2O3 -> Fe3O4, then re-seasoned on the stove with two coats of camellia oil, and we are back in action after about 10 minutes of work.



The first paper towel used as oil applicator browned and blackened, but after a rinse the second paper towel stayed white.

 

[lane]

This is the reason behind some of this:

https://modernistcuisine.com/mc/the-maillard-reaction/
And this also addresses some other reasons for doing it as well.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/food/2021/03/08/preheating-skillets-cast-iron-nonstick/