that is something pretty unique to the US, I have always wondered why nobody has looked into the gaps in the system and plugged those.
perhaps that, and a lot of pretty dumb Dr's trying to make easy money by keeping patients happy (don't ask how I know).Because the companies have a lot of lobbying power? There’s so much f’ed up stuff here that survives for the same reason.
Boston University Creates a new Covid strain that has an 80% kill rate
Isn't this what happened the first time around?
Fun?Yeah, it is unclear. I doubt we'll ever learn what really happened. Knowing that they're making super covid strains for fun worries me. We've got enough troubles in the world already.
I knew someone would take offense at that comment. Take a day off. I know exactly what they're doing, the problem is them not doing it very well sometimes, and the strain could escape and kill a bunch of people. I live near Fort Meade, and they've had problems in the past. We don't even know how covid started, but there's a good bit of evidence it escaped from a lab. I know there's opinions that it did not, but no one really knows, and the powers that be have no problem lying to us (for our own good of course!).Fun?
Since when is science for 'fun'? Try read the paper and you'll see they are exploring to find handles on future strains, there is one guarantee; new strains will appear. Same thing happens with Ebola, Anthrax, smallpox etc
while not very accurate IMO as recently two Ebola vaccines were created fi not for this rare strain;
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/17/world/uganda-ebola-lockdown-intl-hnk/index.htmlhttps://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/clinicians/vaccine/index.html
it's pretty impossible to work on that sort of vaccines without having the pathogen at hand.
it sure did not sound like you understand what they are doing...of course that sort of research is risky but I do know one thing, the risk of strains escaping from such a controlled environment is far lower than the risk of what is creeping out of the tundra, rainforest etc right now due to global warming.Has anyone heard that the idiots have made a strain of covid with an 80% mortality rate?
Boston University Creates a new Covid strain that has an 80% kill rate
Isn't this what happened the first time around?
there's a good bit of evidence it escaped from a lab. I know there's opinions that it did not
I have absolutely no doubt that Russia, China, USA, etc try to impose their world views and believes on the rest of the world and effect others through economic, informational, cultural, military and other means. There is also no question in my mind that Russia sees the US and NATO as a opponent and would do what it can to distabilize them. I just think you give them too much power and ability in doing so.
While they may not have been as succesfull with their own vaccinations (due to a justified distrust of the Russian government), and their kinetic operations have fallen far short of their own expectations (luckily!), I wouldn't underestimate how succesful their (mis)information operations in the last decade have been. Compared to the cold war the Kremlin-cronies have a far higher electorate than they ever had during the cold war...and they even have 'friendlies' like Orban in power in western institutions.totally agree! I guess we can consider oursleves lucky in discovering the Russians did not do too well internally either...neither with their vaccination numbers nor with executing operations.
Except that nothing I said above here is controversial in the slightest... it's all quite well-known and familiar to anyone who has a clue about Russia or what's talked about in security circles. This isn't new either... during the Cold War the KGB arguably spent more effort on 'active measures' than on gathering intelligence. There's no reason to assume this stop given the continuity between Soviet and Russian security institutions. The only real difference is that through the internet they've gotten a far bigger reach.Not that I disagree with you guys about conspiracy theories in general or even vaccinations in particular. I just wanted to point out that you sound like conspiracy theoriests yourselves. You can't possibly believe that Russia and China are to blame for all the things you seem to blame them for.
The irony is that Russia in some ways has the same problems controlling the narratives within their own population as western governments do. Distrust of the government is higher in Russia than here, hence they had issues with vaccine adoption.I have absolutely no doubt that Russia, China, USA, etc try to impose their world views and believes on the rest of the world and effect others through economic, informational, cultural, military and other means. There is also no question in my mind that Russia sees the US and NATO as a opponent and would do what it can to distabilize them. I just think you give them too much power and ability in doing so. Russian COVID denial and vaccine opposition was much, much higher than in the US for example
I knew someone would take offense at that comment. Take a day off. I know exactly what they're doing, the problem is them not doing it very well sometimes, and the strain could escape and kill a bunch of people. I live near Fort Meade, and they've had problems in the past. We don't even know how covid started, but there's a good bit of evidence it escaped from a lab. I know there's opinions that it did not, but no one really knows, and the powers that be have no problem lying to us (for our own good of course!).
it sure did not sound like you understand what they are doing...of course that sort of research is risky but I do know one thing, the risk of strains escaping from such a controlled environment is far lower than the risk of what is creeping out of the tundra, rainforest etc right now due to global warming.
I vote for doing research in order to have a chance of being prepared when something breaks loose by crossing over into another species than having to scramble to start doing research after finding out the hard way.
Actually regarding origins of the virus... Grayswandir isn't entirely off his rocker here. While it's impossible to really give a definitive answer anymore as to its origins, especially when any WHO investigations were the equivalent of visiting a murder scene after you gave the murderer a full year to tamper with the crime scene to hide all the evidence (and they have a huge incentive to do so).... there's enough smoke that you cannot rule out there was a fire.Your language usage is interesting. "Evidence" that there is some conspiracy or cover up going on.... And only "opinions" that it is a naturally occuring pathogen.
This is exemplifies the discussion about disinformation.
I guess there is a philosophical question about truth and belief. We won't ever know the 'true' origins of Covid... So believe what you will. You can choose to follow mainstream scientific discourse... or the more exciting world of possibilities that confirm you pre-existing biases.
These fairly prosaic articles [1], [2] or [3] might convince you that the virus likely originated somewhere along a zoonotic chain. Or they might not. If not; ask yourself.... why just covid? There are a lot of awful diseases in the world to choose from.
Probably because you made an erroneous assumption about a person you don't know. I think a lot people have a false sense of security in regards to how easily a virus could escape from a lab (and they have escaped, many times), even under biosafety level 4 conditions. We're getting too big for our britches, and the same people you seem to be in awe of are the very same people who are destroying the earth, or at least destroying its suitability for sustaining human life.it sure did not sound like you understand what they are doing...of course that sort of research is risky but I do know one thing, the risk of strains escaping from such a controlled environment is far lower than the risk of what is creeping out of the tundra, rainforest etc right now due to global warming.
I vote for doing research in order to have a chance of being prepared when something breaks loose by crossing over into another species than having to scramble to start doing research after finding out the hard way.
It matters.I agree, we do not know what the origin of SARS-Covid 2019 is, and it hardly matters...it is here to stay and I do prefer science to engage in how to prevent further major impact of it by tinkering with the known strains allowing us to prepare. The chance that something creeps out from under the door of one of those labs is there, knowing how these labs work I'll take that over sitting back doing nothing and allow us to be 'amazed' what pops out on the other end of the fast breeding reactor we have allowed large parts of the world to become.
The problem with social media is that it's rather trivial to fill it with fake accounts... you could see this playing out in real-time on twitter in both the lead-up and follow-up to the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It's like a chorus all singing to the same note and the same conductor... all coming out with very predictable narritives. First it was 'lets not escalate! NATO intervention would mean world war 3!', then it was 'save lives because arming Ukraine will only cost more lives in the long run', and then came the predictable 'we must stop the killing we need a ceasefire / peaceful solution now' when it became obvious that Russia's invasion stalled, they lost the momentum and wanted to solidify their gains by freezing the conflict.Maybe it is naive of me... but I agree.
Clearly there is a cold war of disinformation... The thing is... there is an active market for 'bad' ideas. In fact, I'll go one step further. My instinct is that the most successful disinformation campaigns aren't invented overseas. Savvy foreign actors likely look for local narratives that serve their objectives and amplify them.
Partisan politics, biased media and a lack of trust in institutions are all largely domestic issues. Social media is a catalyst for these problems. While foreign actors can definitely take advantage of these weaknesses, they didnt create them.
Yeah I think it's a rather fruitless affair to debate the origins because there's a very high chance we're simply never able to call it one way or the other (barring some very unlikely sequence of events leading to a democratization of China and opening of all their archives). In the end it's just 'something we have to deal with'.I agree, we do not know what the origin of SARS-Covid 2019 is, and it hardly matters...it is here to stay and I do prefer science to engage in how to prevent further major impact of it by tinkering with the known strains allowing us to prepare. The chance that something creeps out from under the door of one of those labs is there, knowing how these labs work I'll take that over sitting back doing nothing and allow us to be 'amazed' what pops out on the other end of the fast breeding reactor we have allowed large parts of the world to become.
too many conspiracy commonplaces, exaggerations and probably a few straw men in one message, I opt outProbably because you made an erroneous assumption about a person you don't know. I think a lot people have a false sense of security in regards to how easily a virus could escape from a lab (and they have escaped, many times), even under biosafety level 4 conditions. We're getting too big for our britches, and the same people you seem to be in awe of are the very same people who are destroying the earth, or at least destroying its suitability for sustaining human life.
Luftmensch,
Are you really so naive it think the world isn't filled with conspiracy? Crack open a history book, they're filled with conspiracies of every kind. Why are some people so arrogant to think that somehow conspiracies no longer exist? I'm not talking about Elvis sightings or little gray aliens by any means. Disinformation and misinformation flows in both directions. Ask yourself who, historically speaking, has told more big lies, the people or the governments we allegedly create?
Controlling the weather is a misnomer Michi, but we can certainly manipulate it, and with a degree of control must people never imagined was possible. You can still find the information, despite the Internet becoming more Orwellian by the day. I don't take Ivermectin, but I do know the media purposely misrepresented it and made it sound "conspiratorial". Maybe that's the disinformation Luftmensch was talking about, I don't really know.
Meanwhile, all those vaccines they developed at the speed of light, with little oversight and no testing, based on new vaccine technology (mRNA). It doesn't work and has lead to more then a handful of deaths so far. Now they're pushing it hard on infants and young children. The vaccines had no effect in slowing down the transmission of covid, something they told us it did, and a fact they like to skip over as quickly as possible when people start asking questions.
Thinking critically, especially in this day and age, well, it's more important now then at any other point in history. Questioning "authority" should never be anathema, especially where it matters most, in the halls of academia, in government, and in the media. Unfortunately, that's exactly what's been happening, and it's gone mainstream. If you're not a lemming, you're a "conspiracy theorist". I find it all more then a little bit disconcerting. If you start asking questions, you're immediately lumped together with characters like Alex Jones.
By the way, I love science, but it's simply a way to study and understand the world around us, a very simple method that when used correctly, can be very valuable and lead to amazing discoveries and new technologies. Why would anyone be against the seeking out of knowledge and furthering our understanding of the reality we currently find ourselves living in? It's not a sacred cow though, and shouldn't be treated as such. Imagine if the wrong people had a stranglehold on "science" and the only opinions that mattered was their own? Peer reviewed research would become meaningless, at least to a certain degree, depending on the field of study.
tbh I would LOVE a cost benefit analysis of continued covid research versus either another highway lane expansion that has never and will never ameliorate traffic congestion or the marginal benefit of having one more aircraft carrier.I feel like there are a lot of absolutist views being put forward here.
I mean, yes it matters where covid came from, which is why people spent a lot of time trying to find out. It's not the most important thing to figure out by any means, but it does matter. And maybe we won't ever be able to resolve this, which is ok, but some of the opinions above seem to use this as a reason why it doesn't matter, which doesn't make sense.
And isn't there a legitimate cost/benefit discussion about gain of function research in the scientific community? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not like this is the only way to protect against future strains. Dismissing someone's qualms about it as ignorant and misguided seems nearly as extreme as calling for an immediate end to such research. Noone's really an expert here, as far as I know. I personally am inclined to let the research go forward, because of my general pro-science attitude, but I'm also aware that this inclination is not based on any sort of rigorous cost/benefit analysis, so is basically worthless.
tbh I would LOVE a cost benefit analysis of continued covid research versus either another highway lane expansion that has never and will never ameliorate traffic congestion or the marginal benefit of having one more aircraft carrier.
cost benefit of science is what IMHO is one of the reasons for scientific fraud and publication pressure, some portion of science just needs to happen without the expectation that something comes out, allow it to stumble across something new and important. The illusion of control drove pharma away from labs doing a mix of basic and targeted research and got them into 'high throughput screening' that went out of fashion fast when it did not pay off...that became molecular level HTS and gene HTS, we'll see how those fare in future years.
for entertainment purposes, sure. but that's not the kind of analysis that's important.
those proposals are apples-to-oranges in the sense that GoF research has essentially unlimited risk. excluding 'butterfly effect' assessments, there's a practical limit on the harm a highway lane or a boat can create, and it's pretty low.
i'm not opposed to GoF research. just saying.
In this discussion, I’m using a larger definition of cost, where “killing everyone” is a big cost.
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