Covid: the shape of things to come

[MarcelNL]

I thought the original Covid “vaccinations”were supposed to do that, but they’re telling us the same thing with the “new and improved” Covid “vaccination”?

Go read up on Covid, viruses, and vaccines and vaccination... don't skip Polio, o wait, the permanent paralysis only affects 1 in about every 200 so it cannot be that bad.

 

[gregfisk]

I’ll never understand people who live in an alternate universe. How can you be so hopelessly ignorant to the reality that we’ve all been living in. Just the statistics alone tell you all that you need to know, thank you to the people who have posted them and tried to explain. And then there are the undeniable first hand experiences that have happened all around us. It’s kind of like some people just don’t want to know what’s really going on in the world so they live in a fantasy world and try and get the rest of us to join them. I have two cousins , both religious. One lives in Spokane Washington and the other in Florida. Both were non believers in the beginning and thought the virus was not a big deal. Then they both ended up in the hospital for over a week each and both almost died. My cousin from Spokane is still really messed up living with long Covid. He can no longer remember peoples names that he meets for the first time and his memory is half what it used to be. And he just doesn’t seem right socially anymore. It’s like he’s not really there in the present and is sort of tuned out half the time. Now that the virus has mutated to a lesser evil I understand how we all just want to move on. I’ve done it myself self since my chances of dying are much less. All I can say is the people living with their head in the sand and who have survived are damn lucky for sure.

 

[sansho]

note that it's certainly not guaranteed that approved antivirals will stay effective!

i'm also glad that we once again have (probably) effective vaccines. at least for now.

 

[ReiHamono]

The “vaccine” doesn’t prevent infection and it doesn’t prevent transmission either.

On top of all of that if you don’t suffer multiple severe comorbidities and if you’re not 65+ the vaccine posses a greater risk to your health than the virus does

Why were people forced to take this “vaccine”?

Also, why hasn’t the FDA recommended this “vaccine” continue safety and effectiveness testing over the last two years????




https://t.co/FvTn01zv3J">pic.twitter.com/FvTn01zv3J</a></p>&mdash; True North (@TrueNorthCentre) <a href="

 

[gregfisk]

I have no problem with her comments and no one ever said that the vaccines would prevent transmission. What the vaccines did do and are still doing is preventing people from dying. Why is that so hard for some people to understand? The amount of people that would have died without the vaccines would have been astronomical compared to the reality we’re in today. I just don’t get the pushback and the constant belittling of what was accomplished in such a short amount of time. Oh, and we all didn’t die today from the vaccine poisoning that was supposed to happen according to the Q-nuts that are pushing all this nonsense.

 

[MarcelNL]

OMG, pleaase DO read up on vaccines and perhaps when you have some more processor time left read up on drug development...please, questioning things is OK, trying to pass on blame because layman expectations are way beyond reality is lame.
While you are at it, look at the risk of contracting Covid in all age groups, versus the risk the vaccination carries and report back, you are once more regurgitating propaganda rather than supporting your claims with data!

 

[MarcelNL]

BTW; what a nonsense question, the studies they did are PUBLIC and the results were submitted to EMA and can be found within seconds, so a question from an ignoramous is suddenly carrying any weight?

"I want to know if you tested the vaccine for the prevention of contracting green hair, and I want a clear yes or no, as I'm sure the public wants to know'

Read the Summary of product characteristics or SmPC and you know what was tested, that applies to the guy asking the question and anyone believing he had a point.
https://www.pfizermedicalinformatio...chments/comirnaty-spc-english-17may2021_1.pdf
You can also find all the studies they did at Clinicaltrials.gov it takes some reading though.

 

[gregfisk]

BTW; what a nonsense question, the studies they did are PUBLIC and the results were submitted to EMA and can be found within seconds, so a question from an ignoramous is suddenly carrying any weight?

"I want to know if you tested the vaccine for the prevention of contracting green hair, and I want a clear yes or no, as I'm sure the public wants to know'

Read the Summary of product characteristics or SmPC and you know what was tested, that applies to the guy asking the question and anyone believing he had a point.
https://www.pfizermedicalinformatio...chments/comirnaty-spc-english-17may2021_1.pdf
You can also find all the studies they did at Clinicaltrials.gov it takes some reading though.

Hahahaha.... exactly!

 

[Greenbriel]

Also, why hasn’t the FDA recommended this “vaccine” continue safety and effectiveness testing over the last two years????

Dear God I come here to get away from this nonsense but I can't let this go (it popped up in my daily roundup). I've professionally written and researched A LOT on this topic. Here's something from a recent story I wrote:

All medicines carry some risk, but with vaccines, the benefits far, far outweigh the risk to individuals, and to public health. All vaccines are continually monitored for safety by scientists, federal, state, and local health agencies, healthcare providers and the public. Systems are in place to coordinate this monitoring — the Vaccine Safety Datalink Project and the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) are used in tandem to allow scientists to monitor vaccine safety. COVID-19 vaccines use these systems in addition to a program called V-Safe, which uses smartphones to add an additional layer of reporting.

@gregfisk did a good job of explaining (or trying, good luck with that bud ) that vaccines prevent death and hospitalization, not transmission and infection.

Over and out.

 

[sansho]

honest question... did any sarscov2 vaccine prevent infection or transmission of the original variant(s) (i.e. of the viral samples available at design time)?

 

[gregfisk]

Dear God I come here to get away from this nonsense but I can't let this go. I've professionally written and researched A LOT on this topic. Here's something from a recent story:



@gregfisk did a good job of explaining (or trying, good luck with that bud ) that vaccines prevent death and hospitalization, not transmission and infection.

Over and out.

Thanks for this. I’m certainly not a scientist, and I certainly don’t have the in depth knowledge that you do. I just try and use common sense along with the information that’s out there. Unfortunately, it feels like talking to some of these people is like talking into a black hole. Everything goes in and nothing ever comes out.

 

[Greenbriel]

Thanks for this. I’m certainly not a scientist, and I certainly don’t have the in depth knowledge that you do. I just try and use common sense along with the information that’s out there. Unfortunately, it feels like talking to some of these people is like talking into a black hole. Everything goes in and nothing ever comes out.

I'm no scientist either, I didn't mean to give that impression! I write for a couple of healthcare companies. If you like I can DM you some links to a couple of things I wrote that talk (respectfully) about vaccine hesitancy and reasons for it (it's not all Q-Anon craziness, there are some more legit reasons people worry), and ideas for how to bring people around (not at all easy once the notion has cemented itself in the brain).

 

[Greenbriel]

honest question... did any sarscov2 vaccine prevent infection or transmission of the original variant(s) (i.e. of the viral samples available at design time)?

Hey bud!

Short answer: yes.

Here's a snippet from Yale Medicine (totally untrustworthy source, what do they know? ).

For example, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine had 95% efficacy in the clinical trials that led to it becoming the first vaccine to get an emergency use authorization (EUA) from the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in December 2020.

Full story here: What’s the Difference Between COVID-19 Vaccine Efficacy and Effectiveness?

 

[Greenbriel]

https://t.co/FvTn01zv3J">pic.twitter.com/FvTn01zv3J</a></p>&mdash; True North (@TrueNorthCentre) <a href="

At the risk of sounding like an anti-vaxxer, HOAX! That's not how clinical trials work.

https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/...-intended-to-test-effect-on-transmission.html

 

[Michi]

Since Omicron, vaccines have not been terribly effective against infection. They do help some, but not a lot.

But they are still very effective at preventing severe disease and death.

If you are vaccinated and get Covid, your chances of coming out the other end much quicker, with less severe symptoms (and alive), are around twenty times better than of a person who is not vaccinated.

That's why our hospitals still have a massively disproportionate number of unvaccinated patients in them. In absolute numbers, there are fewer unvaccinated patients than vaccinated ones. But when you work out what the proportional share of unvaccinated vs vaccinated patients should be, you find that, for every vaccinated person in hospital, there are around 15 unvaccinated ones.

 

[MarcelNL]

There is some evidence that the current Omikron Ready (TM) vaccines DO offer some protetction against transmission;
Note; keep in mind that other household members can be infected by a multitude of people other than those in their household.

from the RIVM website, (basically the equivalent of CDC):

Contagiousness after vaccination​

You can still become infected with the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 after you have been vaccinated. Vaccination protects against illness caused by the coronavirus. Various studies have been published showing that vaccination also reduces transmission of the virus from one person to another. RIVM research (such as VASCO) shows that vaccination significantly reduces transmission of the Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2. A booster jab offers 63% protection against transmission of the virus to other household members. A person who has a booster jab and later gets a SARS-CoV-2 infection has reduced their risk of passing the virus on to their household members by more than half, compared to someone who is unvaccinated and gets COVID-19. International research on transmission of the virus has had more mixed results.

 

[Greenbriel]

But they are still very effective at preventing severe disease and death.

If you are vaccinated and get Covid, your chances of coming out the other end much quicker, with less severe symptoms (and alive), are around twenty times better than of a person who is not vaccinated.

Absolutely @Michi. I am immunocompromised and as a result was extremely careful throughout the pandemic. Unfortunately I contracted Omicron a few months ago (with four shots in me at the time, I’ve since had the bivalent booster). I was absolutely terrified - I have had a cold caught from my nephew turn into near-pneumonic acute bronchitis). My wife and I both had very mild symptoms, basically a cough (no throat pain) and lethargy. We tested negative 5-6 days later and merrily went about our lives. I know that this wouldn’t have been the case were I not vaccinated.

Vaccines are a medical marvel that, like antibiotics, are being squandered by those without the knowledge or desire to protect them.

 

[Luftmensch]

So... I am adding (semi) needless activity here...

Maybe somebody will appreciate this anecdote... I am having a holiday in rural New Zealand. In some of the slow mornings I read the news while enjoying a coffee. For entertainment I have checked-in with KKF every few days. I read the Eric^3 post on Thursday morning. Later that day I went into a countryside knick-knack shop and engaged in small talk with the shopkeep. In particular, I said how nice it was to catch some sunshine (large parts of Oz have had seemingly endless rain and floods). Apparently that was enough consent for her to talk about how the "leftist global elite" were controlling the weather .... from there she proceeded to talk about Pfizer's shocking admissions to the EU.

Fun experience. I it interesting how conspiracy theories can clump... and how quickly this 'news' had spread to the middle of nowhere (we're talking rural NZ here). Mind you... we're also talking about 'news' that hasn't even made the third page of the two newspapers I frequently read.

Love ya NZ. We all have people with mixed opinions - Australia certainly has plenty of them!

Not much to add but I thought it was a fun sequence of coincidences.

 

[Jovidah]

That's not a coincidence at all; a lot of the 'conspiracies' are just desinformation / destabilization campaigns run by other nationstates (Russia is probably the biggest one but certainly not the only one; for example China also has significant troll armies). They just throw everything at the wall and hope something sticks.
Why do you think half the anti-vax spouting channels also suddenly became very opinionated on the Russian invasion of Ukraine in an anti-Ukrainian fashion after the invasion stalled in march?

 

[Michi]

Why do you think half the anti-vax spouting channels also suddenly became very opinionated on the Russian invasion of Ukraine in an anti-Ukrainian fashion after the invasion stalled in march?

Because Covid is kind of getting boring these days and it's more fun to rally behind a different conspiracy theory? Especially when it turns out that all the previous conspiracies regarding Covid didn't happen?

 

[MarcelNL]

That's not a coincidence at all; a lot of the 'conspiracies' are just desinformation / destabilization campaigns run by other nationstates (Russia is probably the biggest one but certainly not the only one; for example China also has significant troll armies). They just throw everything at the wall and hope something sticks.
Why do you think half the anti-vax spouting channels also suddenly became very opinionated on the Russian invasion of Ukraine in an anti-Ukrainian fashion after the invasion stalled in march?

that something I also noticed, and pretty much the same crowd has suddenly become activist pro-farmers around here...(our farmers will need to scale down due to environmental issues of large scale bio industry, they produce like 10 times more dairy and meat than ever needed in our country)

A collegue of me, used to be ICU nurse, was vaccine sceptic but has no gone off the chart anti vaxx and also thinks 'they' control the weather... I never heard anything further about mind control through the graphene and chips in the vaccines, they either prevented that scheme from happening or it was not true after all?

 

[Michi]

"They", if the control the weather, are just like God then. Time to give in and admit defeat. "They" are just insurmountably powerful…

 

[Jovidah]

Because Covid is kind of getting boring these days and it's more fun to rally behind a different conspiracy theory? Especially when it turns out that all the previous conspiracies regarding Covid didn't happen?

that something I also noticed, and pretty much the same crowd has suddenly become activist pro-farmers around here...(our farmers will need to scale down due to environmental issues of large scale bio industry, they produce like 10 times more dairy and meat than ever needed in our country)

A collegue of me, used to be ICU nurse, was vaccine sceptic but has no gone off the chart anti vaxx and also thinks 'they' control the weather... I never heard anything further about mind control through the graphene and chips in the vaccines, they either prevented that scheme from happening or it was not true after all?

I can't speak for the people buying into this crap, but if you look where it originates from it's very often tied to people, organizations or states that simply want to destabilize the countries and populations it's aimed at. Hence the 'throw everthing and see what sticks'. There's no real need for any of it to come true in the long run, and often no real interest in the actual content of the issue; it's all about destabilizing, undermining unity, etc.
In Russian eyes, long term stategic health problems and societal divide as a result of all this antivaxbullshit is a complete win simply because it weakens western societies by destabilizing them. Similarly they'll latch on to anything else that can create or amplify fissures, be it a farmers protest, racial issues, focus on ethnonationalism, leaving the EU (Brexit was arguably the biggest succes Russian secret services had within Europe), etc. Similarly, in the past Russia has also been tied to amplifying and/or supporting certain green movements because their interests alligned. So for example they were pretty big on supporting anti-shale movements in Eastern Europe because it would have led to energy independence from Russia if they went down this path, taking away their main source of leverage.
Once you know what to look for it becomes pretty straightforward to recognize the Russian trolls, Russian bought-and-paid-for 'politicians', or people who bought into or read their message. There's a lot of common strands.

 

[MarcelNL]

I can't speak for the people buying into this crap, but if you look where it originates from it's very often tied to people, organizations or states that simply want to destabilize the countries and populations it's aimed at. Hence the 'throw everthing and see what sticks'. There's no real need for any of it to come true in the long run, and often no real interest in the actual content of the issue; it's all about destabilizing, undermining unity, etc.
In Russian eyes, long term stategic health problems and societal divide as a result of all this antivaxbullshit is a complete win simply because it weakens western societies by destabilizing them. Similarly they'll latch on to anything else that can create or amplify fissures, be it a farmers protest, racial issues, focus on ethnonationalism, leaving the EU (Brexit was arguably the biggest succes Russian secret services had within Europe), etc. Similarly, in the past Russia has also been tied to amplifying and/or supporting certain green movements because their interests alligned. So for example they were pretty big on supporting anti-shale movements in Eastern Europe because it would have led to energy independence from Russia if they went down this path, taking away their main source of leverage.
Once you know what to look for it becomes pretty straightforward to recognize the Russian trolls, Russian bought-and-paid-for 'politicians', or people who bought into or read their message. There's a lot of common strands.

totally agree! I guess we can consider oursleves lucky in discovering the Russians did not do too well internally either...neither with their vaccination numbers nor with executing operations.

 

[Barmoley]

totally agree! I guess we can consider oursleves lucky in discovering the Russians did not do too well internally either...neither with their vaccination numbers nor with executing operations.

Not that I disagree with you guys about conspiracy theories in general or even vaccinations in particular. I just wanted to point out that you sound like conspiracy theoriests yourselves. You can't possibly believe that Russia and China are to blame for all the things you seem to blame them for.

 

[MarcelNL]

Not that I disagree with you guys about conspiracy theories in general or even vaccinations in particular. I just wanted to point out that you sound like conspiracy theoriests yourselves. You can't possibly believe that Russia and China are to blame for all the things you seem to blame them for.

good point, yet after digging into some background over the last few months I tend to think THAT conspiracy is more likely than any of the others (controlling weather, implanted chips, etc). It's not that China and Russia are to blame for everything, it seems quite likely to me that their hybrid warfare -the 'primakov doctrine'- is a key contributor.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/06/05/primakov-not-gerasimov-doctrine-in-action-pub-79254

 

[Barmoley]

I have absolutely no doubt that Russia, China, USA, etc try to impose their world views and believes on the rest of the world and effect others through economic, informational, cultural, military and other means. There is also no question in my mind that Russia sees the US and NATO as a opponent and would do what it can to distabilize them. I just think you give them too much power and ability in doing so. Russian COVID denial and vaccine opposition was much, much higher than in the US for example

 

[gregfisk]

I don’t have any idea how much influence Russia or China has over our US society but I’m certain that they try. IMO, if we use our brains and logic it’s fairly difficult for them to influence use as a whole. Why so many people believe all of these conspiracy theories I will never know. I used to think that most Americans were pretty intelligent but that has completely gone out the window in the last two plus years. What’s missing in people’s lives that allows them to believe that the government and or big pharma are against them and trying to harm them?

 

[ian]

big pharma are against them and trying to harm them?

Cue endless news articles about the opioid epidemic.

 

[MarcelNL]

Cue endless news articles about the opioid epidemic.

that is something pretty unique to the US, I have always wondered why nobody has looked into the gaps in the system and plugged those.