Demeyere Atlantis and induktion.
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Jovidah
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I think beyond a certain minimum level it's hard to truly speak of best... it's all a compromise. I had a similar experience with the deMeyere proline vs multiline. IMO neither is truly better than the other; they're just different pans with different strengths. Yes, infinite milimeters of aluminium will be an awesome heatsink and give perfect heat distribution. But it will also make the pan slow as hell to heat up, slow to cool down, and potentially so heavy you can't properly toss food in it anymore.
Yeah, I have been talking strictly for induction here, as that OP is cooking on and I am also using. Induction is generally less evenly heating that gas. IIRC in my induction cooktops manual, there is even a recommendation to use thick base cookware.
On a nice gas cooktop, I imagine I would be often using bi-metal copper. But I believe I would still own the Fissler saute also, among some other disc ware, and also for example the mcook frypan you have might well be in my stack, as a lighter option.
For @HappyamateurDK though, I would still once more suggest just ordering the Lagostina saute also from Amazon germany
. (Since your wife didn't fall for the Fissler). Then you can heft and compare both the Affinity and Lagostina, and after that, return one unless you want both. I'll be sad if you pick the Affinity though after that still, it would hurt too much, so I don't mind if you don't .I'm just saying though, that there will be a rather big difference in how they spread and store heat for cooking bigger batches of food. You will need to stir more on the Affinity in a pan of that size, at least if you dislike the food not cooking so well around the edges. The nice thing about disc based pans is when you kind of crowd the pan, they the keep going well better than thinner, clad ones.
Here, one in stock. LAGOSTINA Accademia Lagofusion Pan CM 28 Height 12 cm
https://amzn.eu/d/i98cUll
btw, the 6 Falk Copper Core pans that I have been using for a couple years now are also better cladded cookware than the Affinity is thermally. The Falk has likely the same, or more copper than the Affinity has aluminum - and copper is a better conductor of heat.
And yes I agree with Jovidah, in that there is a certain compromise in all things pans. For the 28cm saute being discussed here though, from my experience, I sit firmly in saying that thicker is better (for induction especially). There is not so much need for responsiveness in a pan like this IMHO. In some others, more, just not for a saute like this imo.
Agree with this. I cook on gas, and in ~28 cm I have the following saute pans: Mauviel 2.5mm copper, Fissler OP, and Le Creuset enameled cast iron dutch oven (low sidewalls 30 cm but fits like a 28).
In large saute pans one typically cooks types of food that will benefit more from an even pan compared to a more responsive pan. So even though I use copper a lot, in larger diameters I can feel the 2.3mm of my Mauviel not being enough, so of the three mentioned above it's my least used pan.
I think for the OP, he just has to bite the bullet and try out the De Buyer. It's a different journey for everyone, and maybe for him the De Buyer will be enough. If not, he now has a wide range of alternatives. FWIW I also really love my Lagostina Lagofusion cookware.
Yeah, if he bought the rounded Affinity that he linked to,
https://www.debuyer.com/en/stainless-steel-riveted-saute-pan-affinity-814.html
at least it has a very small bottom area for a 28cm like I suspected. So that will make it seem like the pan heats somewhat evenly, as the bottom flat cooking area to heat is so small actually. In fact the same size as in the straight wall 24cm apparently.
So at least I would say its the better purchase than the straight walled affinity would be. The straight wall 28 would be pretty bad though then, at least for a regular 8" +- induction hob. For a bigger one I imagine it would get better, but probably still not for my tastes for a saute. While @HappyamateurDK hasn't confirmed, I have deducted the he currently likely uses a similar size hob as mine tough, as he implied the fear that the Atlantis 28cm would not fit on their cooktop.
I can imagine how badly the heat spreads after the rounded areas beyond the flat 20 cm in the rounded pan though when there is elevation. But I do have clad with a ~20cm flat bottom in Falk, so while the Affinity will be worse, I suppose that the flat area could do "a okay".
Needless to say that good food can be cooked in any though.. I'm just sour I couldn't get him on board with me ahaha, but I decided to keep pushing just a little still, since he can still turn back I guess, or order also the Lagostina. But yeah, these are just pans.. and I'll stop now, I guess..
https://www.debuyer.com/en/stainless-steel-riveted-saute-pan-affinity-814.html
at least it has a very small bottom area for a 28cm like I suspected. So that will make it seem like the pan heats somewhat evenly, as the bottom flat cooking area to heat is so small actually. In fact the same size as in the straight wall 24cm apparently.
So at least I would say its the better purchase than the straight walled affinity would be. The straight wall 28 would be pretty bad though then, at least for a regular 8" +- induction hob. For a bigger one I imagine it would get better, but probably still not for my tastes for a saute. While @HappyamateurDK hasn't confirmed, I have deducted the he currently likely uses a similar size hob as mine tough, as he implied the fear that the Atlantis 28cm would not fit on their cooktop.
I can imagine how badly the heat spreads after the rounded areas beyond the flat 20 cm in the rounded pan though when there is elevation. But I do have clad with a ~20cm flat bottom in Falk, so while the Affinity will be worse, I suppose that the flat area could do "a okay".
Needless to say that good food can be cooked in any though.. I'm just sour I couldn't get him on board with me ahaha, but I decided to keep pushing just a little still, since he can still turn back I guess, or order also the Lagostina. But yeah, these are just pans
.. and I'll stop now, I guess..
HappyamateurDK
Senior Member
Yeah, if he bought the rounded Affinity that he linked to,
https://www.debuyer.com/en/stainless-steel-riveted-saute-pan-affinity-814.html
at least it has a very small bottom area for a 28cm like I suspected. So that will make it seem like the pan heats somewhat evenly, as the bottom flat cooking area to heat is so small actually. In fact the same size as in the straight wall 24cm apparently.
So at least I would say its the better purchase than the straight walled affinity would be. The straight wall 28 would be pretty bad though then, at least for a regular 8" +- induction hob. For a bigger one I imagine it would get better, but probably still not for my tastes for a saute. While @HappyamateurDK hasn't confirmed, I have deducted the he currently likely uses a similar size hob as mine tough, as he implied the fear that the Atlantis 28cm would not fit on their cooktop.
I can imagine how badly the heat spreads after the rounded areas beyond the flat 20 cm in the rounded pan though when there is elevation. But I do have clad with a ~20cm flat bottom in Falk, so while the Affinity will be worse, I suppose that the flat area could do "a okay".
Needless to say that good food can be cooked in any though.. I'm just sour I couldn't get him on board with me ahaha, but I decided to keep pushing just a little still, since he can still turn back I guess, or order also the Lagostina. But yeah, these are just pans
View attachment 192627
I really appreciate your effort
and who know..maybe I have made the wrong choice.. time will tell. It's the strait walled version I bought. The number is 3741.28
Thanks,
time will tell yes indeed, it is a really nice looker! It should also have 18/10 on the outside, which is nice. And well, it doesn't always go right with knives either, right?
I (kind of don't) hope you fall in love with it..
time will tell yes indeed, it is a really nice looker! It should also have 18/10 on the outside, which is nice. And well, it doesn't always go right with knives either, right?
I (kind of don't) hope you fall in love with it.
.HappyamateurDK
Senior Member
ThanksThanks,
time will tell yes indeed, it is a really nice looker! It should also have 18/10 on the outside, which is nice. And well, it doesn't always go right with knives either, right?
I (kind of don't) hope you fall in love with it.
it sure does looks nice. And it feels really solid and sturdy..almost heavy. Had you tried the affinity on induction yourself?
Are there any induction units that don't suck? And by "suck" I mean "have comically small induction elements that can't evenly heat anything but the smallest pans." All the ones I've seen/used have induction coils that are way too small. That goes for the nice Vollrath one I own as well as the Control Freak I wish I owned. And it goes for all the full-sized rangelike cooktops I've actually seen anyone do the flour test with. I love the virtues of induction, which are real, but I hate the drawbacks.
HappyamateurDK
Senior Member
Well.. I would say it depends a lot what pans and pots you use. But my Voss/Electrolux works pretty good. I used a stainless 12 liter pot with a 26 cm base the other day. Worked great for browning meat. But especially cast iron works really good on induction. I love my le creuser on induction
It is very beautiful @HappyamateurDK .
My Debuyer pans are a Milady ss frypan which is kind of a nice looker too and a 32cm B carbon steel countrypan with double handles.
I haven't tried Affinity on induction, but I have other clad, so the mentioned Falk copper cores, plus Fiskars Norden, a 26cm saute 3,5mm.
Seeing your pan I am more and more tempted to get the Affinity saucepan that has multiple times sat in my Amazon basket though, but I have way too many pans already. I'm a pan dork.
My Debuyer pans are a Milady ss frypan which is kind of a nice looker too and a 32cm B carbon steel countrypan with double handles.
I haven't tried Affinity on induction, but I have other clad, so the mentioned Falk copper cores, plus Fiskars Norden, a 26cm saute 3,5mm.
Seeing your pan I am more and more tempted to get the Affinity saucepan that has multiple times sat in my Amazon basket though, but I have way too many pans already. I'm a pan dork.
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Initially I hated the small induction range in our current in-between-house, but I leanrned to work it....
Sure there are better ones, with more and finer control, but IME it all comes down to using th eproper pots and pans and -very important- learning to read them!
Induction in a commercial kitchen, I dunno...I'm sure it can be done, for home cooking it for sure can work IMHO.
I'm happy that my induction unit has 100 power settings and a knob to select them. Most have a quite small number of power settings that you have to select using membrane switches or some other horrible soul-crushing technology. But my main gripe with induction is the coil size. If "using the proper pots and pans" means "only using small-to-medium pans," it's not really a workaround. Even high end/conductive/massive cookware can't alleviate the problem. Dust the pans with flour and check the browning pattern; even with copper core or something super thick like All Clad's D7, you'll get a 5 inch (or so) scorched donut in the middle of the pan and the rest will be significantly cooler. Evenly searing, say, scallops is next to impossible. Using cast iron or carbon steel, the results are much worse because they're such poor conductors.
My crappy electric glass-top resistance range has a 12" burner with an element that is actually 12" across. I can use my large saute pans, stock pots, dutch ovens, and whatever else on there without any issue. But I can only use like a third of my pots and pans (all of which are induction compatible) on my induction hob because they're too large and the heat is too uneven. 8" skillet? Fine. 1.5qt stockpot? Sure. 10" skillet? That's pushing it. And that's a shame.
My crappy electric glass-top resistance range has a 12" burner with an element that is actually 12" across. I can use my large saute pans, stock pots, dutch ovens, and whatever else on there without any issue. But I can only use like a third of my pots and pans (all of which are induction compatible) on my induction hob because they're too large and the heat is too uneven. 8" skillet? Fine. 1.5qt stockpot? Sure. 10" skillet? That's pushing it. And that's a shame.
HappyamateurDK
Senior Member
The milady series is very nice looking too.. unfortunately I seems they doesn't make a saute pan in that series.
Fiskars makes some really good pans and pots too often at a reasonable price. I have a 28 cm Fiskars Rottiser+. it's the best aluminium pan for induction I've tried.
I don't know if you know this brand.. but for non stick. My overall favourite is Scanpan HaptiQ stainless series. Those are really good. And still made en Denmark.
I have a de buyer Mineral B 28 cm pan too. What are your experience with carbon pans on induktion?
I probably won't have time to try out the. Affinity before the weekend. But I will make sure to come back with a review. I've really enjoyed this thread
thanks for all your input.I don't think it could have 18/10 on the outside, as that wouldn't be ferromagnetic.Thanks,
time will tell yes indeed, it is a really nice looker! It should also have 18/10 on the outside, which is nice. And well, it doesn't always go right with knives either, right?
I (kind of don't) hope you fall in love with it.
New cooktops often seem to have some double or triple zones, that activate by some logic for different sized cookware. I've seen up to 32cm "rings" online for home cooktops. Those of course should better heat a big pan, but I have no experience with those. I bet some here have models like them, though.
I would love to see a scorchprint with Darto n35 saute on some 32cm, or 28cm induction hob for example. or then with some big thin clad pan. It would tell a lot.
I was asking miele once about their full surface induction cooktops, those with multiple small rings. I asked if they would say they evenly heat bigger round pans. With that question, essentially they rather would have had me buy a cooktop with a 28cm round ring, which would offer up to 5500w for that single hob and said that does it best. The full surface ones are interesting, but maybe they would not really be so nice for round pans.
But sure I believe the Miele they suggested me would indeed be better than my current one at handling bigger pans, of course. I just have little idea how much better. But so this is also why I was asking about OPs biggest hob size.
I remembered seeing their video. This one:
Basically similar to demeyeres triplinduc. So the magnetic stainless is after the 18/10.
The short answer is yes. Especially in Europe and Asia, there are both PICs and full-size cooktops that don't suck at all. In the U.S. even pretty basic induction cooktops and ranges cost far more than they should. For example, I bought my higher-end 60 cm Neff flexinduction cooktop for ~$800 back in 2017, while a similar cooktop in the U.S. retails for ~$2.5K. BTW, the 'flex' is because the cooktop has 9 smaller oval inductors that can be used to accommodate pans of different sizes. An oblong Dutch oven, for example, or a 10x15" teppanyaki fit perfectly. Even some of my bigger sauté pans activate 3-4 inductors. There are even higher-end so-called 'zoneless' induction cooktops made by Siemens and other companies (including Thermador) that have a matrix of 3" circular inductors, which simply adapt to where you've placed the pan on the cooktop and activate accordingly.
As far as inexpensive PICs go, I've read good things about the Max Burton XL: https://www.amazon.com/Max-Burton-6600-Digital-Induction/dp/B07QD7FZTP. It has a 9" induction coil, which is far larger than those found in most PICs or even built-in cooktops/ranges.
I've attached a photo showing my Fissler 32 cm serving pan on my Neff cooktop showing the results of the flour test/scorchprint. The temperature difference between the center of the pan and the base of the sidewalls was ~40°F.
Attachments
Right, my ideal cooktop would probably be something like this: NEFF - T59PS5RX0 - Induktionskochfeld
That central circular hob has three concentric inductors underneath, which can accommodate pans with bases from 21 to 32 cm in diameter. And there's a guy who used to post on Chowhound who routinely used 40-45 cm diameter pans on it successfully. Here's the manual showing the details: https://media3.neff-international.com/Documents/9001294663_C.pdf
Meanwhile, both lateral sections have four of the smaller flex inductors, so you could use rectangular or oval pieces of cookware with no issues at all. Or just use 1-2 smaller pots/pans on each side.
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haha, we selected the (almost?) equivalent from Siemens
They have just this I guess then:The milady series is very nice looking too.. unfortunately I seems they doesn't make a saute pan in that series.
Fiskars makes some really good pans and pots too often at a reasonable price. I have a 28 cm Fiskars Rottiser+. it's the best aluminium pan for induction I've tried.
I don't know if you know this brand.. but for non stick. My overall favourite is Scanpan HaptiQ stainless series. Those are really good. And still made en Denmark.
I have a de buyer Mineral B 28 cm pan too. What are your experience with carbon pans on induktion?
I probably won't have time to try out the. Affinity before the weekend. But I will make sure to come back with a review. I've really enjoyed this thread
https://www.debuyer.com/en/stainless-steel-riveted-saute-pan-milady-669.html
Yes, as you can imagine Fiskars are popular here in Finland. I used to have some also, but Im not using ptfe pans anymore since soon 4 years. I did use the Fiskars Norden ceramic coateds as a gateway drug to real stainless after that though still. I should have skipped that phase, but it was part of the learning curve lmao.
Even if I tried hard pushing you to a thiccc bottom stainless pan, I do indeed also use and even enjoy carbon steel and cast iron on my cooktop. Darto and Skeppshult, mainly. The evennes performance of course is not quite up to par, but they get a free pass and with a long preheat they can cook
. Just not "quite" as evenly as my stainless options.I sometimes use an alu-clad induction adapter under my nicely milled bottom 28cm Skeppshults though to help it even out a bit, and it does help, but its fiddly at best using it. I did not have as good experience with the adapter and my Debuyer countrypan sadly, it seems it cant pump the heat into it as well..
The adapter has small legs that elevate it from a little from the cooktop, so it hasn't so far fried the elctornics of my cooktop so thats nice though. Its 3 mm thick.
HappyamateurDK
Senior Member
They have just this I guess then:
https://www.debuyer.com/en/stainless-steel-riveted-saute-pan-milady-669.html
Yes, as you can imagine Fiskars are popular here in Finland. I used to have some also, but Im not using ptfe pans anymore since soon 4 years. I did use the Fiskars Norden ceramic coateds as a gateway drug to real stainless after that though still. I should have skipped that phase, but it was part of the learning curve lmao.
Even if I tried hard pushing you to a thiccc bottom stainless pan, I do indeed also use and even enjoy carbon steel and cast iron on my cooktop. Darto and Skeppshult, mainly. The evennes performance of course is not quite up to par, but they get a free pass and with a long preheat they can cook
I sometimes use an alu-clad induction adapter under my nicely milled bottom 28cm Skeppshults though to help it even out a bit, and it does help, but its fiddly at best using it. I did not have as good experience with the adapter and my Debuyer countrypan sadly, it seems it cant pump the heat into it as well..
The adapter has small legs that elevate it from a little from the cooktop, so it hasn't so far fried the elctornics of my cooktop so thats nice though. Its 3 mm thick.
Skeppshults are very Nice products. As you mention they are milled at the bottom. And therefore sit much better on a glastop stove then most enameled cast iron. I had a skeppshult pot as well as an old Danish made Copco(about 50 years old) but I ended up giving them away because the pure cast iron was a bit annoying when making acidic food. Like food with tomato or wine.
Now all my cast iron is enameled, and it works great. But I usually put some work into finding the one in the store with the most flat bottom. It can vary quite a bit.
I also have enamelled cast iron and use it for cooking food on induction, just not as often as stainless, or bare iron pans. I use ECI in the oven of course, or then on the stovetop for cooking soups mainly. I also use them for storing soups cooked in stainless pans. I also use an ECI braiser sometimes for making bolognese, its a bit of one trick for me. Then an LC long handled saucepan for pizza sauce or perhaps boiling some potatoes if I am feeling fancy and want to do it .
ECI is in a bit of a bad spot for induction imo, since it heats badly, while serving a similar role as stainless, which can be good performers, provided thickness is on point for the task. Food can be cooked in ECI, but they are just not so good at spreading the heat. I also dislike hand washing ECI, as its more fragile and the sink and its surrounding can be a mess of stuff sometimes, then I'd need to clean it up enough to get nice access for washing the precious ECI pan, while my stainless I would toss in the DW or just on top of the other stuff there in the sink to wait for motivation. Not that I'd have any dings on my ECI, but still.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't still like using them though, I do like to use them and want to own them, though I sure don't need all the 6 I have. I could go down to one cocotte and the braiser easily, the rest are either redundant or just collecting dust really. Somebody sell me an ECI, or a regular CI or CS for that matter though, but with an induction compatible heat diffusing disc attached to the bottom.
.ECI is in a bit of a bad spot for induction imo, since it heats badly, while serving a similar role as stainless, which can be good performers, provided thickness is on point for the task. Food can be cooked in ECI, but they are just not so good at spreading the heat. I also dislike hand washing ECI, as its more fragile and the sink and its surrounding can be a mess of stuff sometimes, then I'd need to clean it up enough to get nice access for washing the precious ECI pan, while my stainless I would toss in the DW or just on top of the other stuff there in the sink to wait for motivation. Not that I'd have any dings on my ECI, but still.
Doesn't mean I wouldn't still like using them though, I do like to use them and want to own them, though I sure don't need all the 6 I have. I could go down to one cocotte and the braiser easily, the rest are either redundant or just collecting dust really. Somebody sell me an ECI, or a regular CI or CS for that matter though, but with an induction compatible heat diffusing disc attached to the bottom.
HappyamateurDK
Senior Member
Hi again
So... The review
The maiden voyage for the De buyer was taken making pasta( a bit like Ragu, but faster and with minced beef)
First of all, it confirmed that is was a good choice not going the Demeyere.
way.. it would have bin too wide.
The bottom is flat as a pool table, and I really appreciate that..not all pans and pot actually is.
It response on induktion really fast. Even the walls become hot pretty quick. It's heat distribution is good and even, exept for the last outer 1,5 cm of the frying area towards the edge. That requires some extra time to get op to temperature.
It browns the meat nicely, and with fluid in it it is possible to keep a really low temp simmering.
The Finnish and built quality seems really hight. It is clear when using it that its main force is being really fast responding to cracking the heat up or down. Heat distribution is absolutely approved. It's good, but nok perfect.
And now to something that will make you happy. I found out that a 28 cm might be on the big side for everyday cooking for 3 people. Today I walked into a store that. At the very back of the store, almost hidden. Had a few red boxes. The dust suggest they had bin there for a while.. it was a small selection of lagostina pots and pans. And I had to bring home a 26 cm saute pan
A review of that will follow.
https://www.lagostina.com/en/product/detail/accademia-lagofusion-sautepan-with-lid-cm-26-1221
HappyamateurDK
Senior Member
Hi again.
The lagostina was in use tonight.
I'm gonna lay down flat. It's better then the De Buyer in every way. Exept perhaps the finish, but the difference is minimal.
A joy to use.
The lagostina was in use tonight.
I'm gonna lay down flat. It's better then the De Buyer in every way. Exept perhaps the finish, but the difference is minimal.
A joy to use.
I pretty much want that same Lagostina pan that you are now enjoying! A nice size and indeed, they are rather wonderful when it comes to induction cookware. I'm sure you will continue to like it more and more.
Did you get a good deal on it? There is a good deal right now on their 20cm saucepan on amazon.de, I actually got a 3xcamel for it, lowest price ever (edit. since 21 anyway lol) there, a mere 80 EUR. Just wish I didn't have all these pans already!
Did you get a good deal on it? There is a good deal right now on their 20cm saucepan on amazon.de, I actually got a 3xcamel for it, lowest price ever (edit. since 21 anyway lol) there, a mere 80 EUR. Just wish I didn't have all these pans already!
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HappyamateurDK
Senior Member
I'm pretty sure I paid full price for it. I paid about 255 Euro's for it. So it ain't cheap. I wouldn't be surprised if it can be found cheaper online.
One thing though. I've never had stainless steel pans before. After use it had developed some faint bluish stains on the inside of the pan. Not on the middle, but out towards the he edge.
Is this normal? I'm pretty sure I didn't overheat it. But I did use salt in the food.
Don't worry about the stains, its normal and I never clean the mild discolorations on any of my pans. The appearance can and will change over time.
You might get rid of them with some mild natural solution if you want, like ketchup or vinegar. I haven't explored them much though. Or the next time you make an acidic food in them they could be gone. If you want, you can get rid of them with bar keepers friend (BKF), or a similar product for sure, but for me its a bit of a waste. I resort to BKF then once the pan bottoms are covered in too much stubborn blackish stuff, nearing crust, for my tastes though.
HappyamateurDK
Senior Member
Thanks... I will leave it then. But do you have any idea why it comes? I would think it should be on the middle if it was caused be overheating?
You probably didn't think you actually overheated it, but more in terms of enough to discolor or something. I think you are right though, you did not overheat the pan. Don't worry about the stains, they will appear somewhere, come and go etc.. The Lagostina should then also be a much better choice against the mishap of actual overheating (think warping) with its vastly thicker bottom compared to the Affinity pan, btw.
