Denka from epicedge really any better?

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Knivperson

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Dear everyone. Im new here. Searched on "denka" and read all posts basically, but I didnt precisely got my question answer ed. Here goes.

So, by accident I fell upon this reddit thread stating that denka gyutos from epicurean edge are a bit more expensive, so that the usual problems regarding F&F is avoided. So, as Im looking to buy a 210 mm denka gyuto, I wrote EE to confirm or disconfirm this. This is our correspondance:

"Dear Epicedge.

I'm considering buying a Denka No Hotou gyoto 210 mm with traditional WA handle. I've read about some bad fit and finish on these knives though, but then I stumbled upon a reddit post, stating that you guys pay 100 USD more for Fujiwara to finish the knives better, since you got 50 % returns before this agreement was made with him.

Is it true, and what can I expect - are these knife looked over by you guys to ensure grind, straightness and so forth? It's a lot of money since I live in Denmark and have to pay 25 % customs plus tax and other expences.

Best regards"

"Thank you for your email. When we first started selling Fujiwara knives, as you note, we had a large return problem -- this despite the exceptional quality of the steel and of the heat treatment. We negotiated to receive a higher level of fit and finish as well as individually inspecting and addressing any issues in the knives that we feel to be a problem. Since beginning this program, we have had virtually no returns and instead have had hundreds of very enthusiastic users of Fujiwara's exceptional knives. I think you will also find that they are spectacular.
Please let me know if I can be of further assistance,

Sincerely,"


Super fast respons and service btw. Haven't bought from this dealer before.

So, my question is: The 210mm denka gyuto is more than a 100 usd more than directly off fujiwaras own homepage - is it really worth it to get it from EE?

Anyone ordered from both places? Thanks
 
The bigger question is... if you're willing to pay 100 USD extra to get a project knife that isn't a project knife, why not buy something nice in the first place? ;)
 
Im open for suggestions
Jovidah said:
The bigger question is... if you're willing to pay 100 USD extra to get a project knife that isn't a project knife, why not buy something nice in the first place? ;)
Click to expand...
Im open for suggestions on better performer 210/240mm range 🙂
 
Well I think you're best off filling out the questionaire then so people can make more informed suggestions, but at the price those go for almost anything is on the table, including custom from a good amount of makers.
Also keep in mind that when ordering from the US you're playing customs lottery. If you get hit, it's gonna add a significant extra cost to anything you order from outside the EU.
 
I've handled a few Denkas and Mabs at EE a few years back, and at the time they seemed of better quality than what is often described and seen around here. Grinds were even and I didn't notice any major issues. Bolsters/handle junction on western handle ones were still a little funky looking, but functionally good. A lot of the issues described are cosmetic, but at the price you can understand people not being happy. The Denka I got came from somewhere else and grinds were also even and everything was fine and functional, bolster wasn't pretty, but perfectly functional and comfortable. Spine and choil were not eased. I got it just to check what all the hoopla is about and it turned out to be a really well performing knife, so much so that I had it rehandled and choil and spine rounded. It is even better now. So EE seems to have better fit and finished knives and they seem to be good to work with. Can't comment on if increase in the price is worth it, as that is up to the buyer.
 
Thanks, I posted the questionnaire (I hope I posted in the right forum!). I'll reconsider the choice and then maybe order from EE, if I don't change my mind.
 
Value of course is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, if I had to keep only one gyuto, it would be a Denka. Until you try one you'll always be wondering. Vetting the blade and trusting the vendor is key.
 
just to play devils advocate, If you are worried about fit and finish at this price point just get a the9nine, or other "western" maker of similar quality. Im not trying to be cute. Im kinda serious, as these guys pay a bit more attention to those fit and finish things.

Just an idea. Id really love to try a denka too, but I can thin n sharpen if needs be. For the same money one can get quite a knife...
of course it wouldn't be a TF Denka though.
 
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Knivperson said:
Are they good performers?
Click to expand...
Some of the best. But everyone has their preferences. My favorite knife I own is my the9nine 240 gyuto. He builds em a bit heavier than some, but the edges are thin and they cut.
I have no issues doing fine work like horizontal cuts into garlic with that knife.
I have paid more for knives and will again, but at the price point... the fit n finish is higher than most j knives
 
I haven't noticed super clean grinds from any TF dealer, including the one of interest. I see facets on all of their grinds (light reflecting at different angles). I don't think they are flawed to the point of.being unusable. I've had other knives I had to modify to make usable. The steel is very easy to sharpen and deburr, keeps an edge a long time. Handles don't seem any different at different vendors.

I like how mine performs, but the grinds and profiles are all different. Think of them like Carters with blue steel. But a bit thicker. Every one is unique.

If you crave consistency, try elsewhere. These may be handpicked, but they still come from a shop that's OK with a fair degree of variety. Keep that in mind.

All that said, mine is a "break glass in case of heavy prep" knife. It's a worker. But I got to pick from a selection, and wouldn't have chosen one of the others I compared to.
 
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captaincaed said:
I haven't noticed super clean grinds from any TF dealer, including the one of interest. I see facets on all of their grinds (light reflecting at different angles). I don't think they are flawed to the point of.being unusable. I've had other knives I had to modify to make usable. The steel is very easy to sharpen and deburr, keeps an edge a long time. Handles don't seem any different at different vendors.

I like how mine performs, but the grinds and profiles are all different. Think of them like Carters with blue steel. But a bit thicker. Every one is unique.

If you crave consistency, try elsewhere. These may be handpicked, but they still come from a shop that's OK with a fair degree of variety. Keep that in mind.

All that said, mine is a "break glass in case of heavy prep" knife. It's a worker. But I got to pick from a selection, and wouldn't have chosen one of the others I compared to.
Click to expand...
I beg to differ. The Morihei TF's with the fine finish have consistent blade roads from what I've seen. The red handle Denka's seem to have better F&F but the bolster on the Yo knives are the real weak spot. This is one aspect that could easily be addressed imo.
Personally I like the knife to knife variation as I can handpick the specs that suit me best without getting involved with customs.
 
I have one that’s been antagonizing me for weeks now, and at a price that’s been extremely difficult to resist. One of these days I’ll stop talking trash and pony up.
 
I would agree with

lemeneid said:
Used to be true. But TF these days are much improved so you don’t get much benefit buying from EE.
Click to expand...

I've ordered a number of knives directly, and they have markedly improved over time. I got 2 240 denkas this year alone and was extremely happy with both of them.

Knivperson said:
Im open for suggestions

Im open for suggestions on better performer 210/240mm range 🙂
Click to expand...

At the denka price point, there are people here that will definitely point you to other options. Taking out the subjective "what knife truly feels the best on the board" (as its so dependent on the work you intend to do and personal taste) I will say a denka will always be a my go to knife in a professional kitchen. It's not much of a competition honestly. It preforms wonderfully, has a rougher aesthetic that will naturally carry the look of wear better, easy to sharpen, holds a edge extremely well while inexplicably not chippy, and its stainless cladding drastically drops the maintenance while avoiding having to change knives for certain tasks because item x doesn't play well with carbon or iron.
 
Sure. And we all wish you good luck in that lottery...

Leaving the sarcasm away, yes, go for it if you know what to expect, if you’re fine with it and if you really know what you’re doing.
 
Knivperson said:
It seems it could be ok to order from TF, then?
Click to expand...
I would say you are better off ordering directly if you really want one. Shipping should be cheaper. I don't know how much tax and custom duties you have to pay. In Germany you can expect around 30% additional, expect at least 20%, American don't (have to) factor that in.
I have heard lots of good stories about people loving their Denkas and also know one who has one which is excellent but only after a tune up. There are more stories about bad ones in the Maboroshis. Most people only buy the 210 since the price increasement to the 240 is ridiculous.
Personally won't buy a Denka in the foreseeable future, if I pay that much I want a pretty perfect product. I mostly use 240s and the price is just too high. Imo there are lots of other knives which will fare pretty much as well or close enough for less. My Shi.Han 52100 does exactly what ragz said for a better price. You have quite some makers in Europe who will do a great product for less like Isasmedjan, Dalman, Birgersson, Yanick Puig, Kamon and many more.
Personally I don't buy in the artificial hype people on here create even if the Denkas will be a damn fine knife. Also you have to consider people like different things in knives. On the other hand it shouldn't be too hard to resell your Denka but expect to lose some money, looking at the prizes preizzo sold his tuned up Denkas for.
 
A simple advice from me - Keep things simple and go slow. Enjoy the journey of discovering the kitchen knives, imporve your sharpening skills.
In particular - as the other guys say - buy a knife from a european craftman. Simple, cheaper, no (bad) surprises.

3 times "simple". I am sure you got the point. ;)
 
Yeah I don't see the point of diving straight into the other end of the pool either. Even if you got a perfect Denka it's questionable whether you'd have the experience or the skill to really distinguish it from a non-perfect one, or any other good knife at half the price, or take advantage of whatever added benefit it's supposed to have.
Almost any knife (that isn't a laser) is going to be heavier than a Kono HD2 - that's a given. But it sounds to me like you haven't exactly ironed out your preferences or really looked around that much.
For the price of the Denka (especially if you include import tax) you could basically go to cleancut, buy a Yoshikane in both 210 and 240... decide which you like most and sell the other, then go back and buy another knife of another maker, and still have money to spare.
Alternatively if you were more certain about the length you could probably buy 3 good or 2 great gyutos for what you'd end up paying for the Denka. Or a gyuto and a suji... etc...
 
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I've had many Denka in my shop at this point. Anything new has been pretty terrific. Obviously, they don't clean up the scratch pattern too well, but neither does Carter, and people pay 1k all day for them. The bolsters and western handle fitment are always a bit wonky; arrant grind marks are prevalent. Tips and edges are super thin with no waviness.

Now, I haven't seen an older Denka that wasn't heavily modified, so that says something.
 
Thank you guys. Since I have decided on a 240 mm I dont think ill go with a denka. From my other thread I think ill maybe look into watanabe pro 240 stainless clad blue or toyama 240 stainless clad. Maybe look at some european bladesmiths, maybe start a New thread about it! :)
 
Knivperson said:
Dear everyone. Im new here. Searched on "denka" and read all posts basically, but I didnt precisely got my question answer ed. Here goes.

So, by accident I fell upon this reddit thread stating that denka gyutos from epicurean edge are a bit more expensive, so that the usual problems regarding F&F is avoided. So, as Im looking to buy a 210 mm denka gyuto, I wrote EE to confirm or disconfirm this. This is our correspondance:

"Dear Epicedge.

I'm considering buying a Denka No Hotou gyoto 210 mm with traditional WA handle. I've read about some bad fit and finish on these knives though, but then I stumbled upon a reddit post, stating that you guys pay 100 USD more for Fujiwara to finish the knives better, since you got 50 % returns before this agreement was made with him.

Is it true, and what can I expect - are these knife looked over by you guys to ensure grind, straightness and so forth? It's a lot of money since I live in Denmark and have to pay 25 % customs plus tax and other expences.

Best regards"

"Thank you for your email. When we first started selling Fujiwara knives, as you note, we had a large return problem -- this despite the exceptional quality of the steel and of the heat treatment. We negotiated to receive a higher level of fit and finish as well as individually inspecting and addressing any issues in the knives that we feel to be a problem. Since beginning this program, we have had virtually no returns and instead have had hundreds of very enthusiastic users of Fujiwara's exceptional knives. I think you will also find that they are spectacular.
Please let me know if I can be of further assistance,

Sincerely,"


Super fast respons and service btw. Haven't bought from this dealer before.

So, my question is: The 210mm denka gyuto is more than a 100 usd more than directly off fujiwaras own homepage - is it really worth it to get it from EE?

Anyone ordered from both places? Thanks
Click to expand...

I'd consider paying over the odds for a EE TF denka—just to get it quicker, and not having to deal with international shipping. Value of course is subjective, $100 not much to some in the grand scheme of things.

I got mine used—a perfect denka IMO.
 
Corradobrit1 said:
I beg to differ. The Morihei TF's with the fine finish have consistent blade roads from what I've seen. The red handle Denka's seem to have better F&F but the bolster on the Yo knives are the real weak spot. This is one aspect that could easily be addressed imo.
Personally I like the knife to knife variation as I can handpick the specs that suit me best without getting involved with customs.
Click to expand...
You are free to differ. This is what I've seen in person from the line and store in question in the past two weeks. I haven't seen all the options out there. Just replying to the question OP asked.
 
captaincaed said:
You are free to differ. This is what I've seen in person from the line and store in question in the past two weeks. I haven't seen all the options out there. Just replying to the question OP asked.
Click to expand...

You're lucky to be near EE. I'm a huge fan of supporting local knife shops—a fave pastime for me in NYC—engaging face-to-face, seeing knives in person, etc.
 
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