Do You Yakatori?

[HumbleHomeCook]

So for the past couple years I've found myself getting all fascinated with yakitori. I'll get super geeked out on videos and equipment research (usually a couple times a year) but always decide it just seems like a lot of expense and some effort for what it is.

Just the idea of getting the binchotan started seems like a PITA. And the konro seems pretty task focused. And both are expensive.

But...

It seems really cool too. The butchery is awesome. I've even started cutting off the butt skin and such and just searing them in a pan. So it is having an influence but I always stop myself before taking the full plunge.

So what say you yakitori practitioners? Glad you jumped in? Lessons and advice to share?

 

[Noodle Soup]

Never had real yakitori and the cost of binchotan char coal seems way too much for some grilled chicken. I'm going to Tokyo soon and hope to learn if its really worth the effort and expense.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Never had real yakitori and the cost of binchotan char coal seems way too much for some grilled chicken. I'm going to Tokyo soon and hope to learn if its really worth the effort and expense.

Well it does burn super hot so you can cook fast and I've seen videos of quenching so it can be reused so that helps some I guess... A little...

 

[superworrier]

There's a big gap between good and really good yakitori. Generally I don't like chicken that much (unless it's fried) but I love yakitori. I think it'd be really fun to do it myself but not viable with my current living situation unfortunately.

 

[Gshep91]

We have some very close family friends who do it for special occasions like birthdays and what not. The food is delicious, but they’ve even said that they find it tedious & other methods are faster and more practical for most homes.

Personally, I don’t have the space for another item for a niche task so I pass

 

[superworrier]

One advantage of going to a restaurant is you can try a bunch of different pieces, but it's a bit less viable at home

 

[MontezumaBoy]

Just like you this was a fascination and really enjoy the entire experience of butchering, prep and production ... just really really fun TBH. I only do it about 2-3 times a year though but enjoy it every time and wonder why I don't do it more ...

Bought a Konro years ago when Korin was having a sale on them so it made some sense (not a lot ... LOL). Also Jon Broida (JKI) happens to sell binchotan at a "doable" price not Japanese but really if you go that deep into this rabbit hole oh well ... at least he did several years back when I bought a couple of boxes from him.

Some thoughts;

Bichotan can be "re-used" ... this is quite a savings & I highly recommend it ... the charcoal takes a LOT of time to come up to temp which can be frustrating until you get that timing under your belt ...

Konro - if you buy a "smaller unit" you will likely run out of space especially if you are doing any zone (temp) cooking which I do all the time when doing that sort of food. The thin grill screens that come with it will rust out quickly / look stainless but they are NOT ... ask me how I know when I went to go use it the last time. Good ones in stainless aren't readily available and not "cheap" either. Using just the bamboo skewers has never worked for me as they always burn out & I have tried a variety ways to avoid that ... that is where the grates help. I have taken it to friends homes and used it there ... had to get it the next day (residual heat) but it is "portable" to some extent.

Cooking method - takes concentration & you will want to eat each skewer right away / sort of like wok cooking IMO, in that you are likely going to be cooking, eating & repeat. Just something to think about as you are not going to be able to prepare a whole meal ahead of time ... or you can but then a lot of what you are working for gets lost while food holds.

Couple of good cook books (IMO) "Chicken and Charcoal" (as in Yardbird HK) and "The Japanese Grill" by Ono & Salat ... both have a lot to offer in terms of technique, sauces, recipes ... they work for me ... my $0.02

One of these days we should try and figure out a way to get you out to the peninsula and try it out. This whole work crap / travel gets in the way though ... LOL

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Just like you this was a fascination and really enjoy the entire experience of butchering, prep and production ... just really really fun TBH. I only do it about 2-3 times a year though but enjoy it every time and wonder why I don't do it more ...

Bought a Konro years ago when Korin was having a sale on them so it made some sense (not a lot ... LOL). Also Jon Broida (JKI) happens to sell binchotan at a "doable" price not Japanese but really if you go that deep into this rabbit hole oh well ... at least he did several years back when I bought a couple of boxes from him.

Some thoughts;

Bichotan can be "re-used" ... this is quite a savings & I highly recommend it ... the charcoal takes a LOT of time to come up to temp which can be frustrating until you get that timing under your belt ...

Konro - if you buy a "smaller unit" you will likely run out of space especially if you are doing any zone (temp) cooking which I do all the time when doing that sort of food. The thin grill screens that come with it will rust out quickly / look stainless but they are NOT ... ask me how I know when I went to go use it the last time. Good ones in stainless aren't readily available and not "cheap" either. Using just the bamboo skewers has never worked for me as they always burn out & I have tried a variety ways to avoid that ... that is where the grates help. I have taken it to friends homes and used it there ... had to get it the next day (residual heat) but it is "portable" to some extent.

Cooking method - takes concentration & you will want to eat each skewer right away / sort of like wok cooking IMO, in that you are likely going to be cooking, eating & repeat. Just something to think about as you are not going to be able to prepare a whole meal ahead of time ... or you can but then a lot of what you are working for gets lost while food holds.

Couple of good cook books (IMO) "Chicken and Charcoal" (as in Yardbird HK) and "The Japanese Grill" by Ono & Salat ... both have a lot to offer in terms of technique, sauces, recipes ... they work for me ... my $0.02

One of these days we should try and figure out a way to get you out to the peninsula and try it out. This whole work crap / travel gets in the way though ... LOL

Damn work indeed!

You made this both better and worse.

 

[btbyrd]

It's an artform. It's fun. It's kind of expensive. It's difficult to learn about in English. It's hard to do in small volume with just one or two chickens. It pays to know farmers to get bulk hearts and whatnot. It's the sort of thing I'd love to have someone pay me to fly me to Japan for a month to learn about (along with many other things). But that ain't happening.

The best English language printed resource is Matt Abergel's "Chicken and Charcoal." Lots of nice butchery and knifework photos. I feel like every knife nut should own a copy. On YouTube, the best resource is Yakitori Guy. That dude just radiates positive chicken energy, if that makes sense. He's pretty great.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

So do you guys have a favored butchery tool?

Yes, I probably am just looking for an excuse to buy another honesuki...

 

[btbyrd]

I sort of think that even the cheapo $70 ones are great. But I think my ideal knife would be something like a 175mm Takeda. They've got a super thick grind, not unlike a Moritaka. I'd also like to try a single bevel sometime just to see if it has a functional benefit, even if just in sharpening. But I think there are a lot of really great cheap options on the market and that I'd probably be happy with a $75 stamped western handled monosteel.

The thing is, yakitori is very much the sort of thing that you master by making hundreds of skewers a day. You just can't get there as a home cook. But you can get delicious results regardless, even if your skewers are raggedy. I have an almost two-year-old child so I don't get to use my setup as much as I used to. But it always creates memories. Here is a super epic solitary lunch that I shared with my dog. He got the liver and some tenders. I ate the rest.

It's also a really great way to grill pork shoulder. Nobody else seems to know this, but it's probably a thing somewhere. If not, I'm claiming credit as of like five years ago when I started doing it regularly. Porkitori? Whatever. It's just as good a reason to own one as chickens. At least if you're a boy raised in northwest North Carolina where pork shoulder is king.

Anyway, buy yourself a Boston Butt. Seam butcher it. Then sous-vide it, or don't. Or do just the tough ones and kombu-cure the other ones. At any rate, 48 hours at 60C never hurt nobody.

I usually serve it grilled as a lettuce wrap with some kimchi, pickles, scallions, radish, and rice / whatever else on the side.

That was butchered for a chilly mountain vacation about five years ago. I no longer have this beard or this hair, but I do still kind of manifest "this dude" energy. It's not the worst energy. It's tasty energy, at any rate.

Buy some nice horse and goat hair brushes. Brush up on your tare game. Get some fancy J-salts. Have fun with it, especially if you love chicken and have the money. If you don't have the love or the funds, don't do it.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I sort of think that even the cheapo $70 ones are great. But I think my ideal knife would be something like a 175mm Takeda. They've got a super thick grind, not unlike a Moritaka. I'd also like to try a single bevel sometime just to see if it has a functional benefit, even if just in sharpening. But I think there are a lot of really great cheap options on the market and that I'd probably be happy with a $75 stamped western handled monosteel.

The thing is, yakitori is very much the sort of thing that you master by making hundreds of skewers a day. You just can't get there as a home cook. But you can get delicious results regardless, even if your skewers are raggedy. I have an almost two-year-old child so I don't get to use my setup as much as I used to. But it always creates memories. Here is a super epic solitary lunch that I shared with my dog. He got the liver and some tenders. I ate the rest.

View attachment 267256

View attachment 267255


View attachment 267254


It's also a really great way to grill pork shoulder. Nobody else seems to know this, but it's probably a thing somewhere. If not, I'm claiming credit as of like five years ago when I started doing it regularly. Porkitori? Whatever. It's just as good a reason to own one as chickens. At least if you're a boy raised in northwest North Carolina where pork shoulder is king.

Anyway, buy yourself a Boston Butt. Seam butcher it. Then sous-vide it, or don't. Or do just the tough ones and kombu-cure the other ones. At any rate, 48 hours at 60C never hurt nobody.

View attachment 267258

I usually serve it grilled as a lettuce wrap with some kimchi, pickles, scallions, radish, and rice / whatever else on the side.

That was butchered for a chilly mountain vacation about five years ago. I no longer have this beard or this hair, but I do still kind of manifest "this dude" energy. It's not the worst energy. It's tasty energy, at any rate.

View attachment 267275

Buy some nice horse and goat hair brushes. Brush up on your tare game. Get some fancy J-salts. Have fun with it, especially if you love chicken and have the money. If you don't have the love or the funds, don't do it.

Awesome thank you! You guys don't make it easy.

Have you used a Moritaka honesuki?

 

[btbyrd]

The only honesuki I've used are my Anryu aogami and the Misono garasuki. I mostly bought the Anryu because it was a relatively inexpensive forged knife and I already had other knives in that series that it matched. It does a fine job, but I wish it was a bit more robust. It's too thick to be of much use as a petty, but it's not thick enough to obviously be a butchery knife. I liked a lot of the thickness of the dragon garasuki, but having a blade that girthy with such an asymmetrical bevel seemed off to me. It just didn't cut well. Maybe that was my fault. It was probably my fault. But my suspicion is that I'd most enjoy a knife somewhere between the petty-like Echizen/Takefu Masakage stuff and the honkin-thick Misono garasuki. The Takeda would be my top choice for next to try alongside a single bevel. And also some of the cheapo Bernal offerings just to see how good cheap ones can be. I suspect they're pretty good.

 

[superworrier]

I have the Sakai Kikumori Nihonkou one and in my limited use, it's pretty good. Steel is surprisingly decent too. Wouldn't be surprised if the monosteel yo-handle honesuki is the default in Japan, but doesn't mean there isn't fun in the others.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

The only honesuki I've used are my Anryu aogami and the Misono garasuki. I mostly bought the Anryu because it was a relatively inexpensive forged knife and I already had other knives in that series that it matched. It does a fine job, but I wish it was a bit more robust. It's too thick to be of much use as a petty, but it's not thick enough to obviously be a butchery knife. I liked a lot of the thickness of the dragon garasuki, but having a blade that girthy with such an asymmetrical bevel seemed off to me. It just didn't cut well. Maybe that was my fault. It was probably my fault. But my suspicion is that I'd most enjoy a knife somewhere between the petty-like Echizen/Takefu Masakage stuff and the honkin-thick Misono garasuki. The Takeda would be my top choice for next to try alongside a single bevel. And also some of the cheapo Bernal offerings just to see how good cheap ones can be. I suspect they're pretty good.

I had a Masakane from Bernal and it did in fact work very well. I've been using my custom 165 @MSicardCutlery and love it but I also just dig honesuki and am having an itch for another.

 

[MarcelNL]

what exact temp are we talking when using Binchotan?

I had Yakitori a few times while in Japan for business and I must say this thread jogged my memory...happy days those meals...(one was in a little place specializing in everything chicken, chicken sashimi was part of the 'taster menu"

Stacking Weber coal high in a Konro might work, I tried to get close to yakitori on the Weber but that was an epic fail due (too far from the coal and you cannot get closer without asbestos gloves...

Funny, turns out there is a shop selling Konro and Binchotan and they are like 10 miles away....

 

[rob]

Yep, I've been Yakatori-ing for a few years.
Have a small and large Konro grill i purchased from James at K&S, he also has very good binchotan though it is expensive.
I have also tried a cheaper Binchotan that doesn't get as hot but still works well, even good hardwood lump charcoal is decent.
My tips would be
*make sure you have all your prep done and skewers ready to go, the food cooks really fast!
*agree that you want to eat skewers straight of the grill.
*a charcoal chimney on an outdoor wok burner works great for lighting charcoal (takes about 20 mins)
*use metal skewers or soak wooden skewers in water, otherwise they will catch on fire and you can watch your beautiful food drop into molten larva hot coals, don't ask how i know this.
*a decent crock pot or dutch oven with a lid is great for extinguishing the charcoal so you can re use.
* i have experimented with lots of produce, chicken, beef and pork, veg mushrooms etc.

I find it's lots of fun, love the prep and knifework involved and food tastes incredible.

 

[Jovidah]

So do you guys have a favored butchery tool?

Yes, I probably am just looking for an excuse to buy another honesuki...

Cutting up chicken is mostly technique.... I don't think adding another honesuki would really bring much to the table.
For cutting up chickens the honesuki is my favorite, but for trimming bigger chunks of meat my new K-Sabatier 200/8 18 cm slicer recently dethroned anything that came before it (including Ginga petty).

 

[OyakoDont]

I love yakitori. That’s all…

I started watching a few videos on YouTube for breakdown of chicken and bought a bessaku honesuki after to give it a whirl. My first breakdown was incredibly slow, but I get faster and faster. I never learned to break down a chicken the normal way, so at this point all I know how to do is break it down for yakitori. Plus, I just make soup stock and freeze it, so having the whole carcass is great.

My budget intro, and still my go-to when lazy is to use a broiler. My chicken is about 3-4” from the heating elements. Of course it tastes different when I make yakitori in the broiler vs konro with charcoal, but you can get a feeling for the texture of chicken when it is just right. I never really liked chicken breast until yakitori. If I’m broiling inside, I’m usually too lazy to dip the skewer in tare, so I really learned how to make salt, sake, and chicken standout. Of course, I have a jar of tare in the fridge that I can bust out when I’m in the mood. Every few months I bring it to a boil to keep it safe for consumption.

For buying chicken, I think minimum investment is buying a whole chicken. From my experience, there is a big difference in taste when I buy parts vs a whole chicken. It makes it harder to make some skewers that have limited quantity like the butt or oyster, but you can still try small skewers. I have not tried any fancier chickens from locally sourced farms, I’m sure it would elevate the taste. Err on the side of cutting chicken smaller rather than larger. Once it gets too large the pieces are over cooked or dry.

If you’re not getting a konro straight away, I think you just need a spray bottle for sake. A small spritz keeps the meat moist while the inside cooks. If you get fancy later you can have brushes for putting on oil or chicken fat onto your skewers. I use bamboo paddle skewers, no need to soak them. Actually if you soak them the inside of the chicken ends up being a bit undercooked. If you get a konro, you can buy some steel from your local hardware store and use that as the grates for holding your skewers.

If you’re not watching any videos, I agree that books like Chicken and Charcoal are helpful. I really recommend Yakitoriguy on YouTube for learning though.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

what exact temp are we talking when using Binchotan?

I had Yakitori a few times while in Japan for business and I must say this thread jogged my memory...happy days those meals...(one was in a little place specializing in everything chicken, chicken sashimi was part of the 'taster menu"

Stacking Weber coal high in a Konro might work, I tried to get close to yakitori on the Weber but that was an epic fail due (too far from the coal and you cannot get closer without asbestos gloves...

Funny, turns out there is a shop selling Konro and Binchotan and they are like 10 miles away....

As @OyakoDont mentioned, yakitoriguy on YT has some excellent videos and I've watched several. He has a comparison of lump charcoal to binchotan. The lump ran hotter but was very inconsistent and died faster while the binchotan was a little lower but very even and lasted a long time. You also get higher flares through fanning. I don't remember the exact temps as it's been awhile but I think it was like 1200F vs. 900F. It's a two part video:





If you weren't doing a lengthy session, lump may be alright.

I've played around with yakitori-ish skewers on my two small Webers and like you, I found it just isn't the same. My Go-Anywhere let's me get the coals pretty close to the grate but still not quite the same experience. You also don't have the insulation trapping in the heat like on a konro. I have some ideas for rednecking some "improvements" to it to see how it does and test my dedication. Probably have to wait until spring now if I go that route.

As for breaking down chickens, I do that a couple times a month. Not in yakitori fashion but I do break down whole chickens. I rarely buy parts any more. I've played around with the yakitori style and it is quite different and I'd need to really focus on it to get better at it. I've used many different knife types and sizes for chicken butchery and I do like using a honesuki for the task. It is quite versatile and performs its intended purpose quite well.

Adding another one would just, well, make me smile.

Great inputs all, thank you. Keep the conversation flowing.

 

[boomchakabowwow]

i always get confused between the grill and the big flat top (onion volcano thing) method of cooking- nomenclature.

i dont think i would yakatori at home. it wouldnt be feasible to buy bits of different meats or anything like that for me.

 

[blokey]

Might be blasphemous... But I see people just cook on electric grill at home, might lack the smoky flavor but worth to try before making a large investment

 

[deltaplex]

I dig it, but it takes a lot more prep and active time cooking than I typically have time for. So I use it here and there on weekends, and I try to improve upon the last time. I like doing whole muscle (seam) butchery if I can and braking down the chicken more in line with that ethos suits me quite well. I do have a Konro that's two full grates long, so slightly larger than the one in @btbyrd pictures. I haven't used binchotan, but I have used thaan in it, and it's a bit fiddly to get going, but it's very nice once it's ripping. I normally use piles of lump when I've got it around, but I've been burning piles of downed oak into coals instead of charcoal recently and I think that works really well for how I run things.

I don't think you "need" a honesuki, but I'm far from one to dissuade anyone form trying out a knife they want. I use any number of pettys for my bird butchery and I feel as though I'd only get a little better experience with a purpose designed blade than I do with the pettys I have tuned in for the more robust utility work.

The biggest thing I take from it is that one really notices the quality of bird you use for it.

 

[MarcelNL]

Might be blasphemous... But I see people just cook on electric grill at home, might lack the smoky flavor but worth to try before making a large investment

I bet that the output of that is something COMPLETELY different. than Yakitori...

 

[Naftoor]

Gonna point out, Yakitori guy frequently uses one of those electric grills for his Yakitori. He admits it’s not as good as the real deal, but it seems to get ‘close’ as in maybe an 8 if binchotan is a 10. The smokiness isn’t there and he frequently mentions the chicken breast not being as “fluffy” when comparing the two, but otherwise it seems to be comparable.

I find it confusing since this electric grills should be putting out FAR less heat than standard lump or even briquettes. Most resources I’ve found state that the IR radiation is what’s important for Yakitori, they also all claim that bincho produces more IR than every other type of charcoal, but I have yet to see anything test or show this beyond “trust me bro” You see the same claims on literally every online store selling bincho, but if that’s true then I can think of no reason why electric stoves SHOULD work, even though they clearly do.

Electric produces mostly radiant heat, which Yakitori guy and others tell you to avoid to avoid drying your meat out. As such I’m convinced the best way to do it, when bincho isn’t an option, is to pick up a commercial charbroiler for 1-4k, have your kitchen rewired for two phase for 2-5k and do it that way.

Back up, actually realistic recommendation is to mix up the tare, and use it for saucing regular chicken skewers that are divided by dark/light meat and watched to make sure you don’t overcook them. If you start with good chickens and do that you’ll probably start hitting the wall of diminishing returns for a home cook.

 

[Naftoor]

Particularly since most of those sources put bincho well north of 1000F, which puts it past the Draper point and where there should start being some light emission. You’d think if infrared is the goal (and not just the super clean product without the binders and uncarbonized wood and such producing off flavors) then in fact the LOWER temperature lump would be superior for bincho. So I’d say treat a lot of the age old wisdom about Yakitori the same we we’ve grown accustomed to treating a lot of the mysticism of the east, yes there’s some good information in there, but it’s buried under layers of valuable information lost due to translation issues and peoples latching onto it with pseudoscientific explanations to make themselves expert.

A Yakitori joint is pretty much top of my list if I ever make it to Japan, but I’ve consumed what feels like every video on YouTube about binchotan making generally and Yakitori specifically and feel no closer to the truth. It’s very reminiscent of the ramen trek I went on at the same time. Lots of information, most of it conflicting and all of it claiming to be the truth.

Also, here’s a fun link to “educate” yourself on bincho. Isn’t it great how it apparently even emits healing amounts of IR when worn on the body?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Particularly since most of those sources put bincho well north of 1000F, which puts it past the Draper point and where there should start being some light emission. You’d think if infrared is the goal (and not just the super clean product without the binders and uncarbonized wood and such producing off flavors) then in fact the LOWER temperature lump would be superior for bincho. So I’d say treat a lot of the age old wisdom about Yakitori the same we we’ve grown accustomed to treating a lot of the mysticism of the east, yes there’s some good information in there, but it’s buried under layers of valuable information lost due to translation issues and peoples latching onto it with pseudoscientific explanations to make themselves expert.

A Yakitori joint is pretty much top of my list if I ever make it to Japan, but I’ve consumed what feels like every video on YouTube about binchotan making generally and Yakitori specifically and feel no closer to the truth. It’s very reminiscent of the ramen trek I went on at the same time. Lots of information, most of it conflicting and all of it claiming to be the truth.

Also, here’s a fun link to “educate” yourself on bincho. Isn’t it great how it apparently even emits healing amounts of IR when worn on the body?

Watch the above videos. He gets higher max temps off the lump than the binchotan. The binchotan is much more consistent though.

Not arguing your overall assertion just saying that the lump is not entirely a lot lower.

 

[Naftoor]

Yup, the thermal evenness is, combined with how clean the charcoal is, is in my opinion probably why it’s such good stuff. No off flavors and no random charring of the chicken let’s you go light on the seasoning and let the bird sing.

That being said there is so much bad information out there.

I’d love to take a crack at making it myself. A burn barrel for making charcoal is definitely on the list of things when I eventually. In the interim, the jealous devil binchotan is honestly what I’d start with if they’re sold locally, I’ve been messing with their XL lump and the quality has been excellent. 3-4 hour burn times which is well beyond what I had gotten from similar lump products and very low smoke once it’s started. If the bincho is of a similar quality then it’s a great value. Haven’t seen folks reviewing it so I’m assuming it’s fairly new to the market.

Ah here we go, starting to find a few reviews. Seems to perform well, would love yakitori guy to test it out but after lockdown ended he seemed to move away from these sorts of gear testing videos sadly. Seems to perform well, but seeing some reports of potential flareups but fairly low smoke. Seems more like a middle ground between lump and actual bincho.

 

[cheeken1111]

Yes i do. And yaki-sake, yaki-buta, yaki- unagi as well. I use lump as I dont need to have it last hours and its cheap. Metal skewers from amazon for ease of grilling. Yaki-something...... 2-3 times a month.


would also recommend getting an electric blower if you are using lump charcoal.... it is a lot more ashy and can fill up the vents.

I think it is well worth it.... so much so i use my gas weber as its cooking stand and outdoor cover. I use the grills side burner and a charcoal chimney for easy charcoal starting. Just need the space and the $$

 

[Dan-]

I’ve made yakitori for a dozen years now on a gas Weber (the higher end ones). I bought Ono’s book back in 2011 and have loved it ever since. Typically we’d make thigh skewers and skin.

The gas grill, when you cover the other sections of the grate with foil, definitely gets hot enough. When making a ton of yakitori, it can be difficult to brush and turn them quickly enough when you get to the “turn every 30 seconds” part of the process. I brush rather than dip.

Knives, I like the Yoshihiro josaku garasuki. I recently ran through a case of chicken cutting through rib bones without a chip or really any dulling.

I’m not a YouTube person, so I’d never seen yakitoriguy’s stuff, but he seems really happy. His methods are a little different from what I do, but they clearly work for him. I am curious about the fancy charcoal….