Food Release: Stiction and the Grind

[Kippington]

Nah its all good, the "hook" was still in there!

I have to be clear though - I never asked how he does it nor did he tell me on his own. I also didn't watch any videos or something like that if there even exist any, and I also don't know if he is the first who did that grind nor if he does it like I do.

If you're interested, the entire history of its creation is pretty much documented here in this thread.

 

[KAMON Knives]

And I thought about it right now. I'll just mention you as soon as I got something finished. Don't want to be seen as the originator of this idea and I took the inspiration from you which I'm not afraid to state. Sry for not mentioning you in the first place.

Regards

Benjamin

 

[Carl Kotte]

I say, another christmas miracle on KKF - where dreams come true [emoji268][emoji16][emoji1303]

 

[Kippington]

And I thought about it right now. I'll just mention you as soon as I got something finished. Don't want to be seen as the originator of this idea and I took the inspiration from you which I'm not afraid to state. Sry for not mentioning you in the first place.

Cheers!

Good luck working out how to polish the bastard!

 

[Dhoff]

Wow this thread is suddenly lively. I personally love that this grind ideal is being explored, who knows what mutant babies Will be norm?

 

[Barmoley]

What do you guys think of the longevity of these grinds? For most of us here not an issue since we have a million knives and never really change the profile and height much. For a main knife for a pro though, every time you sharpen a hook grind, you make the hook less pronounced since I assume you sharpen the hook side as a short wide bevel.

 

[M1k3]

As long Kippington gets credit, even if not on a big billboard, I'm not getting out the pitchforks. Great job to both of you.

 

[KAMON Knives]

I guess you can eventually grind out a hook grind as you can grind out an S-grind @Barmoley but the knife won't be defect then. It will just be a "normal" convex (or whatever) ground knife then.

About how long this will take in professional use it strongly depending on the user I'd say.

 

[Nemo]

It essentially depends on the height of the hook (and obviously how much steel you grind away).

The higher the hook, the less food release benefit, so there is a definite tradeoff between longevity of the grind and food release in this grind.

 

[Barmoley]

Thanks. Both answers make sense, like I said not a real issue, just a curiosity of mine. Always wonder about more complex grinds.

 

[Kippington]

It essentially depends on the height of the hook (and obviously how much steel you grind away).

The higher the hook, the less food release benefit, so there is a definite tradeoff between longevity of the grind and food release in this grind.

Spot on.
All the hook grinds I've made so far have had to take this into consideration. I've never made one that was designed for performance alone, there's always the element of longevity / life span which decreases the food release.
I mentioned this briefly two years ago, when I posted this picture:

The height of the step has a huge effect on the efficiency of food release. The lower I make it, the better the release while also decreasing its ease of thinning.

An interesting side effect of this is that as you sharpen the knife over time, the hook actually becomes more effective, until the point you reach the step.
The one Kamon made has a much lower step than what I've been doing (about half the height) allowing it to out-perform mine, but at the cost of the effective lifespan of the hook. It doesn't matter though because he was making a prototype.
__________

On a related note - If I make a passaround for this forum, do I go all out and grind it for performance alone or do I go for a more realistic lifespan model? You gotta admit, it would be fun to mess around with maxed out performance if you didn't need to worry about the keeping and maintaining of the knife... it would be a tad unrealistic though.

 

[labor of love]

The correct answer is that if you make a pass around knife you make it left handed.


Seriously though, OOTB performance is what I think most would be interested in seeing.

 

[Michi]

For a pass-around, I think a middle-of-the-road version would be best. Most people will never have used such a knife before; something that doesn’t over-emphasize one aspect would make the most balanced impression.

 

[ian]

Agreed. I’d try to give people the most honest impression of what they should expect from the knife, rather than its max potential. Count me in if the knife comes to the US.

 

[labor of love]

What exactly is Max potential I think is debatable.

 

[gogogo545]

Double the hook, problem solved jk

 

[labor of love]

Might as well make a 15mm tall hook and a 25mm tall hook. Double the pleasure double the fun.

 

[Michi]

@Kippington If you do a pass-around, please put me on the list. I really would love to try that knife!

 

[madelinez]

Me too!

 

[ma_sha1]

Me three

 

[Dhoff]

Double the hook, problem solved jk

Might be a joke, but would IT be possible in theory? A Hook with a hook above ready for action when the blade is thinned enough?

Quadroble Hook grind? Just think of the polishing the Maker would enjoy

 

[Kippington]

It's possible to make the thing with multiple ridges, but it would look bloody ridiculous! I'd call it a "gill" knife.

I swear I've seen a knife out there with multiple ridges, but I'm not even going to try find the picture again.
Polishing it would take 90% of the time to make...

 

[McMan]

It's possible to make the thing with multiple ridges, but it would look bloody ridiculous! I'd call it a "gill" knife.

I swear I've seen a knife out there with multiple ridges, but I'm not even going to try find the picture again.
Polishing it would take 90% of the time to make...

Xerxes did one (middle). I think technically it is a Z-Z-Z-Z-grind.

 

[Kippington]

That's nuts. I have no idea how he did that...
The one on the left looks like it was knapped, like they do with flint.

 

[madelinez]

You just need one of those fancy micro-abrasive blasting machines... what could go wrong

 

[M1k3]

I'm in for a passaround if it hits the U.S.

 

[Dhoff]

Any performance impact if it is not polished?

 

[Kippington]

Any performance impact if it is not polished?

Are you talking about the Xerxes or the hook?

 

[HRC_64]

Any performance impact if it is not polished?

cleaned up from basic machining or the difference between 400 vs 2k sandpaper?

 

[Dhoff]

Both the normal Hook and the Xerxes "Hook" i guess. Just curious