For those who don't like patina, what are your preferred maintenance methods?

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nickw_

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I am considering a mirror polish on my next carbon steel knife. I know the knife won't look brand new forever (and thats fine), but I am interested in learning about the better maintenance practices to keep the appearance up. There seems to be many options out there, and I'm curious about the pro's and con's of each. Some seem to like Flitz, others like powdered cleansers (Coment, Bar keepers friend...) etc.

What are your preferred maintenance methods and why?

Thanks.
Nick,
 
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I usually just give up, but, when I'm trying, I use mud from natural stones. If you really want to get into it, a diamond emulsion on hard felt works well.
 
Get some mud out of your finest stone and go to town with a non scratchy medium.

If we’re taking mirrors Naniwa super stones can show you pores and wrinkles you never knew existed. If you want some light haze but don’t want to buy a whole bench stone, uchigumori chunk from @ethompson , Takeda’s little shobu nagura, or a Tsushima nagura are inexpensive options.
 
Since you haven't bought it yet, why not just opt for a mirror polished stainless blade? You'll save a tremendous amount of time down the road.

Also BKF powder will leave scratches in a mirror finished blade.
 
If we’re taking mirrors Naniwa super stones can show you pores and wrinkles you never knew existed.
Would that be for daily maintenance, or the initial/subsequent polishes? In this case I'm more interested in daily maintenance.

I know many Japanese chefs remove the tarnish from their knives after each shift, I'm just not sure how, or whats best.


Since you haven't bought it yet, why not just opt for a mirror polished stainless blade? You'll save a tremendous amount of time down the road.

Also BKF powder will leave scratches in a mirror finished blade.
That was my concern with powdered cleansers.

In terms of a mirror polished stainless, the knife I am wanting is white#2 which comes with a soft iron cladding. I may be able to custom order a soft stainless cladding instead of soft iron, however at some point I'm going have a knife where this wont be possible, and I thought I would just learn now.
 
Mirror polished reactive carbon seems like a giant pain in the ass. I say this as someone who owns a mirror polished knife (that's stainless) and wouldn't buy one again.

You either need to make peace with patina or make peace with having scratches. Or spend the rest of your life polishing. There are plenty of cooks who remove the patina from their knife after each service, but zero of them are using mirror polished blades.
 
A mirror finish or kasumi can probably be maintained on a honyaki sashimi knife that is exclusively used for portioning boneless skinless fish indefinitely, but for pretty much anything else getting scratches on the finish will just be part of it...
 
Simichrome is my choice, sometimes it feels almost magical. Mirror finish though…… you will see scratches anyway and there is no reasonable way to keep it mirror on a knife that is being used as even whipping with a towel can produce fine scratches. I don’t think Japanese chefs that remove patina on their working knives after every shift worry about mirror polish just to remove patina instead. Mirror finish is a whole other level of driving one totally insane.
 
Simichrome is my choice, sometimes it feels almost magical. Mirror finish though…… you will see scratches anyway and there is no reasonable way to keep it mirror on a knife that is being used as even whipping with a towel can produce fine scratches. I don’t think Japanese chefs that remove patina on their working knives after every shift worry about mirror polish just to remove patina instead. Mirror finish is a whole other level of driving one totally insane.
Scratches on mirror finish is depends on the knife user themselves. Even knives without mirror finish will have scratches everywhere if they are made of stainless steel and the owner didn't take care the knife or store it properly.


It also depends on the type of knife and what it is used for. If you have a mirror finish Gyuto which is used for cutting all the ingredients in the kitchen than it will probably have a lot of scratches. But if it's a knife like the Yanagiba which is used for slicing boneless fish for Neta & Sashimi, you can maintain the mirror finish more easily.
 
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Mirror polish will be really really sticky. It'll worsen your food release. I wouldn't bother. If I was bothered by patina (which I'm not) I might consider forcing a patina with coffee or something so it's at least an even dark color.
But if patina truly bothered me I'd just buy stainless knives instead. :D
 
Would that be for daily maintenance, or the initial/subsequent polishes? In this case I'm more interested in daily maintenance.
It could really be used for either or I think. The mud itself works quite fast (5k light blue stone) and there’s nothing stopping you from grinding up a chunk of it and keeping it in a vial for daily use.

It’s not a cheap, quick or super easy option, but quite viable.
 
Even highly polished low carbon steel develops rust very, very easily. It's roughly 70% humidity in my part of Ontario right now, and just last week after brightly finishing a low carbon clad blade I set down for the night, and in the morning I found multiple rusty finger prints on the blade. I would wait for a stainless clad blade if you're absolutely set on a mirror finish.
 
I’m not crazy about patina (except for patina on carbon damascus which is pretty cool) so I just force it with a coffee soak on my knives that aren’t stainless clad.

Mirror-finished knives, carbon or stainless, always seemed like way more trouble than they’re worth IMHO.
 
Scratches on mirror finish is depends on the knife user themselves. Even knives without mirror finish will have scratches everywhere if they are made of stainless steel and the owner didn't take care the knife or store it properly.


It also depends on the type of knife and what it is used for. If you have a mirror finish Gyuto which is used for cutting all the ingredients in the kitchen than it will probably have a lot of scratches. But if it's a knife like the Yanagiba which is used for slicing boneless fish for Neta & Sashimi, you can maintain the mirror finish more easily.
I agree. I assumed we were talking gyutos. Someone already mentioned above that on a yanagiba that is only used for cutting soft protein it might be possible. I doubt even that though, the user would have to be very, very careful to not pickup tiny scratches on a mirror finish. Even somewhat rough towel and paper towel will do it. Stainless will show scratches too of course, but if it is not mirror then at least tiny scratches would not be as visible. I just don’t understand mirror finish on a working knife. It picks up everything and is really sticky.

On the other hand some people like to suffer or maybe polishing a knife to mirror on daily basis is a zen thing to do, to me it sounds like a form of sisyphus punishment, but hey go for it.
 
I agree. I assumed we were talking gyutos. Someone already mentioned above that on a yanagiba that is only used for cutting soft protein it might be possible. I doubt even that though, the user would have to be very, very careful to not pickup tiny scratches on a mirror finish. Even somewhat rough towel and paper towel will do it. Stainless will show scratches too of course, but if it is not mirror then at least tiny scratches would not be as visible. I just don’t understand mirror finish on a working knife. It picks up everything and is really sticky.

On the other hand some people like to suffer or maybe polishing a knife to mirror on daily basis is a zen thing to do, to me it sounds like a form of sisyphus punishment, but hey go for it.
I agree with you, But a knife that is used every day will eventually show signs of use like some scratch or something eventually.
 
Just wash with hot water and soap after.
I mean, of course I wash the knife after flitz too, just less convinced I'm getting it all off with simichrome. Maybe I'm just paranoid. And after resetting a patina, I want that patina to form again, and I think simichrome inhibits that a bit, but again, maybe I'm just overthinking it.
 
Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond.

It sounds like Simichrome and Flitz are exactly what I am after, thank you.

I also feel I should clarify, the patina I am primarily interested in reducing is the grey and blue oxides which form with normal use. I know some like them, even prize them, but they are not my preference. I should have mentioned this sooner, I am sorry, but it honestly didn't occur to me.

In terms of the scratches which can develop on a mirror finish, thank you for thinking of me in regards to them. Previously I had not considered them a form of patina, which thinking about it now, they clearly are. To be totally honest, and perhaps somewhat surprisingly, they do not bother me. They have a certain charm to me, perhaps like the oxide patinas hold for others.


Mirror polished reactive carbon seems like a giant pain in the ass. I say this as someone who owns a mirror polished knife (that's stainless) and wouldn't buy one again.

You either need to make peace with patina or make peace with having scratches. Or spend the rest of your life polishing. There are plenty of cooks who remove the patina from their knife after each service, but zero of them are using mirror polished blades.
Thank you for thinking of me in regards to the scratches. I am at peace with the light haze of scratches which form.


A mirror finish or kasumi can probably be maintained on a honyaki sashimi knife that is exclusively used for portioning boneless skinless fish indefinitely, but for pretty much anything else getting scratches on the finish will just be part of it...
The knife I am thinking about is a V-ground nakiri, similar in appearance to a usuba with a defined shinogi line. It would only be the upper portion which mirror polished.


Simichrome is my choice, sometimes it feels almost magical. Mirror finish though…… you will see scratches anyway and there is no reasonable way to keep it mirror on a knife that is being used as even whipping with a towel can produce fine scratches. I don’t think Japanese chefs that remove patina on their working knives after every shift worry about mirror polish just to remove patina instead. Mirror finish is a whole other level of driving one totally insane.
Thank you, I was wondering what the common practice are for daily maintaence among Japanese chefs.

In terms of a mirror polish, I think one has to learn to be okay with some level of light scratching.

I am also a wood worker and I have mirror polished all my plane irons. For whatever reason, the light scratches do not bother me. Every once and awhile I may spend a minute or so touching up the finish. Not to restore a near perfect visual mirror again, but rather to just take the edge off the hard lines. Soften the haze if you will. I am happy with this.


Mirror polish will be really really sticky. It'll worsen your food release. I wouldn't bother. If I was bothered by patina (which I'm not) I might consider forcing a patina with coffee or something so it's at least an even dark color.
But if patina truly bothered me I'd just buy stainless knives instead. :D
Yes, that is a downside of mirror polishes.

In this case I was referring to a V-ground nakiri with a defined shinogi line, similar to a usuba in appearance. It is only the upper section in which I was considering polish. I am hoping the v-grind will aid in the food release sufficiently. I can always lightly brush it later, or give it a kasumi finish, however I hope I will not desire too.


It could really be used for either or I think. The mud itself works quite fast (5k light blue stone) and there’s nothing stopping you from grinding up a chunk of it and keeping it in a vial for daily use.

It’s not a cheap, quick or super easy option, but quite viable.
I hadn't considered using the mud before. Essentially making a polishing paste. Similar to a honing compound. Which then makes me think a honing compound might work well on a cloth. Essentially making a polishing cloth, like which is used for jewellery. It is all so obvious now.

This could be very helpful and much easier than using a stone. As someone could then polish the scratches and soften the bottoms of the scratch too. Thanks for the idea.


Even highly polished low carbon steel develops rust very, very easily. It's roughly 70% humidity in my part of Ontario right now, and just last week after brightly finishing a low carbon clad blade I set down for the night, and in the morning I found multiple rusty finger prints on the blade. I would wait for a stainless clad blade if you're absolutely set on a mirror finish.
That sounds really frustrating.

I'm in BC (in the Rocky mountains) and humidity is more stable here. That said we still actively maintain our house in the 50% humidity range. I have been blessed to not have a problem yet.


anyone one else try the koyo blue for routine cleaning?
No, nor had I previously considered it. I think it has good potential and is worth trying.

The danger I can see is, if one touches up mirror finish on a polishing stone again, the degree of polish may be different in some areas. As a polishing compound on a cloth may create low spots in the blade, which may not then match the polish achieved on a flat stone later. If so, I would probably do a light polish again with the cloth to match the level of finish, Or this might not be a problem at all.

Perhaps someone has experience here, and can share some feedback. Otherwise I am temped to polish a cheaper knife and see how this approach works over time.
 
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I hadn't considered using the mud before. Essentially making a polishing paste. Similar to a honing compound. Which then makes me think a honing compound might work well on a cloth. Essentially making a polishing cloth, like which is used for jewellery. It is all so obvious now.

This could be very helpful and much easier than using a stone. As someone could then polish the scratches and soften the bottoms of the scratch too. Thanks for the idea.
👍. I had tried relegating certain cloths to certain stones, but I can’t seem to keep the system organized. Using a grit impregnated cloth may actually be ideal for this application.

I lately have a newfound respect for woodworkers. I’m sure it’s easier with the proper tools, but the precision, patience, ability to eyeball stuff - seriously not easy.
 
Use a matte ceramic coating
Interesting idea. I had considered leaving on the lacquer, to both protect the finish and keep it shiny, however over time it would wear off unevenly.

The idea of a ceramic coating is an interesting one, I thought I would look into it. However when looking up the MSDS on a few offerings, none of them are food safe.


👍. I had tried relegating certain cloths to certain stones, but I can’t seem to keep the system organized. Using a grit impregnated cloth may actually be ideal for this application.
Thanks. Out of curiosity, how do you find the long term use of such polishing cloths affecting the finish, and it visually matching what comes off the stones?

This was my concern above, in my first round of replies (specially the last quote/reply). Have you experiences any issues over the long term?
 
Thanks. Out of curiosity, how do you find the long term use of such polishing cloths affecting the finish, and it visually matching what comes off the stones?

This was my concern above, in my first round of replies (specially the last quote/reply). Have you experiences any issues over the long term?
I haven’t had any long term experience with doing this, but with synthetic grit you’re likely getting very much the same finish as the stone. What I’ve done on the stone is comparable to with a cloth, although I imagine you would want to refresh the grit on there every so often.

Natural powder would be a different story..
 
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