Gas burner..how much power is needed?

[HappyamateurDK]

Hi all.

Because of the Russians acting up the recent years. Yesterday our government send out some guidelines regarding prepping for periods without electricity, heating and other stuff that could be affected in crisis times.

I ordered a gas burner to hook up to an ordinary 11 kg gas bottle. But I'm in a bit of doubt if the 2,5 kW effekt is enough to drive a normal sized pot or a 28 cm pan(cast iron)

Prepping really is new to us.

What do you guys think..is it too weak?

 

[MarcelNL]

for more regular cooking that is about enough for a normal pot.
It may take a bit longer for stuff to boil, but for 'survival' cooking I'd expect that to be fine, a larger burner will eat more gas....

 

[Carbonara]

That should be plenty. I used to have camp chef that runs from the small Coleman gas tanks and that think could handle pretty much anything.

 

[HolyDiverScallop]

The difficulty you will have will not be whether there's enough power, but whether there's enough control. Trying to simmer on one of those can be a challenge.

The other issue you may run into will be wind causing the burner to run cool. I'd find a way to surround that burner on three sides to block wind, because you absolutely should not use it indoors.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I'd definitely recommend one like this or the standard Coleman camping stove, but something with wind shields will be very helpful. Got my mom this one and it folds up pretty small. I've had the Coleman linked below for like 20 years, it's bulletproof but you aren't going to fit a large 12" skillet on it comfortably. Works best with 10" or below pans.

https://www.campchef.com/shop/portable-cooking/cooking-systems/explorer-14/CC-EX60LW.html


https://www.coleman.com/grills-stov...as-camping-stove-2-burner/SAP_2000037883.html


You definitely don't want to go too big either. My 200,000 BTU burner eats through propane fast even when I'm trying to go as low as possible but that burner is really meant for boiling a 100 qt pot ASAP.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

The difficulty you will have will not be whether there's enough power, but whether there's enough control. Trying to simmer on one of those can be a challenge.

The other issue you may run into will be wind causing the burner to run cool. I'd find a way to surround that burner on three sides to block wind, because you absolutely should not use it indoors.

It is approved for indoor use. It has the required FFD( flame failure device.

However it will probably only be used in the garden with almost no wind.

 

[HolyDiverScallop]

It is approved for indoor use. It has the required FFD( flame failure device.

However it will probably only be used in the garden with almost no wind.

The issue, in my mind, is less about whether the STOVE is rated for indoor use, than it is about whether the rest of the setup is so rated. That includes hoses, connectors, and whether you have adequately tightened all fittings to avoid a leak.

The failure mode of a leaky 20 pound propane tank indoors is ugly, painful, and catastrophic.

You'd also be amazed at how little wind is needed to cause problems with a stove. Trust me on this one. I've struggled to deal with a whisper of wind at times.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

The issue, in my mind, is less about whether the STOVE is rated for indoor use, than it is about whether the rest of the setup is so rated. That includes hoses, connectors, and whether you have adequately tightened all fittings to avoid a leak.

The failure mode of a leaky 20 pound propane tank indoors is ugly, painful, and catastrophic.

You'd also be amazed at how little wind is needed to cause problems with a stove. Trust me on this one. I've struggled to deal with a whisper of wind at times.

You have a good point I will make som windguards.

 

[HolyDiverScallop]

You have a good point I will make som windguards.

Excellent. Hopefully, you won't need to use any of it. I'd definitely suggest a couple of test cooks before a need arises to help you dial in what you don't yet know you need to make it a good experience.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

Excellent. Hopefully, you won't need to use any of it. I'd definitely suggest a couple of test cooks before a need arises to help you dial in what you don't yet know you need to make it a good experience.

Hopefully it won't be necessary.. I do however plan to use it a bit when cooking in the garden.

 

[Jovidah]

How were you planning to store your gas? And what type of gas? For example not all gas types work at low temps.

If I wanted something truly disaster ready I'd lean to some multifuel or white spirit burner instead but that's just me.

2,5 kw is plenty even for proper frying.... main question is can you turn it down enough. Not necessarily a problem; improvised emergency cooking will mostly involve boiling water and stuff in it, but keep in mind many outdoor burners have their weakness here.

When cooking outdoors a windscreen can make quite a big difference in efficiency. Doesn't have to be fancy; the ones MSR sells with their burners are basically heavy duty triple thickness tin foil and they work just fine.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

How were you planning to store your gas? And what type of gas? For example not all gas types work at low temps.

If I wanted something truly disaster ready I'd lean to some multifuel or white spirit burner instead but that's just me.

2,5 kw is plenty even for proper frying.... main question is can you turn it down enough. Not necessarily a problem; improvised emergency cooking will mostly involve boiling water and stuff in it, but keep in mind many outdoor burners have their weakness here.

When cooking outdoors a windscreen can make quite a big difference in efficiency. Doesn't have to be fancy; the ones MSR sells with their burners are basically heavy duty triple thickness tin foil and they work just fine.

We already have a gas grill and are currently storing the gas bottles in a shed in the garden. Often two 11kg bottles at the same time.

The gas is LPG/Propan

 

[Nemo]

It's kinda ironic that the potential electricity interruption is caused by gas supply constraints and the solution is... gas.

 

[blokey]

Another solution is solar panel and reserve battery, more expansive and not going to power your whole home but enough for cooking and lighting

 

[blokey]

Also butane burner could work too

 

[HolyDiverScallop]

In my experience, ad-hoc ultra small scale solar is not enough for cooking, but is enough for a lot of other things. There's still no substitute for fossil fuels for making heat at the cheap(ish) and cheerful(ish) end of the solar spectrum.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

It's kinda ironic that the potential electricity interruption is caused by gas supply constraints and the solution is... gas.

In our case the assumption is that a potential electrical interruption would be caused by Russian hacker attacks or other kinds of russian interference.

We don't usually have electrical problems.

 

[blokey]

I was wondering that, aren’t Denmark a net exporter of oil and gas

 

[Michi]

For the paltry sum of $399, you can by a solar oven. Good luck!

 

[HappyamateurDK]

I was wondering that, aren’t Denmark a net exporter of oil and gas

Yep.. oil, gas and on windy days. Electricity.

 

[Jovidah]

Another solution is solar panel and reserve battery, more expansive and not going to power your whole home but enough for cooking and lighting

You have to pay attention during ordering and install if you want it to work like this; plenty of solar setups won't work when the grid is down.

 

[WildBoar]

Call these guys and ask to speak to Hank: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100067918603325&locale=bg_BG

 

[MarcelNL]

You have to pay attention during ordering and install if you want it to work like this; plenty of solar setups won't work when the grid is down.

which is due to regulations probably in all of the EU.
I plan on using the EV as backup power, it can do 3.6KW (@74KWh) and cook on propane should that sort of friendly gestures come our way. Just have to disconnect the house from the grid, the PV can charge the car (in sofar it's not in dead winter as there are days we dont even hit 1Kwh/24h...which is likely though)

 

[aporigine]

which is due to regulations probably in all of the EU.
I plan on using the EV as backup power, it can do 3.6KW (@74KWh) and cook on propane should that sort of friendly gestures come our way. Just have to disconnect the house from the grid, the PV can charge the car (in sofar it's not in dead winter as there are days we dont even hit 1Kwh/24h...which is likely though)

Here in US the minority of EVs can give back. I hope that changes.

 

[blokey]

There’s also propane and butane hybrid burners, seems interesting

 

[Jovidah]

which is due to regulations probably in all of the EU.
I plan on using the EV as backup power, it can do 3.6KW (@74KWh) and cook on propane should that sort of friendly gestures come our way. Just have to disconnect the house from the grid, the PV can charge the car (in sofar it's not in dead winter as there are days we dont even hit 1Kwh/24h...which is likely though)

From what I recall it's actually more for technical reasons rather than regulative ones. You'll have to do your due diligence on vehicle selection too; V2G (vehicle to grid) functionality is also the exception rather than the norm.

 

[MarcelNL]

From what I recall it's actually more for technical reasons rather than regulative ones. You'll have to do your due diligence on vehicle selection too; V2G (vehicle to grid) functionality is also the exception rather than the norm.

It's regulations, in order to protects unknowing workers on cables in the street etc...would not be nice if my PV panels start hitting them with 5KW at the time where think they can safely do cable surgery ;-)
With a circuit breaker (three phase primary circuit breakers are in place) it's easy enough to uncouple from the grid, the problem is that the PV inverter logic 'needs' power...with the car connected that is sorted I figure. Will do a test somewhere this summer when I feel like it, better to know it works than having to McGyver on the spot.

I picked a car that can do V2L (Vehicle to Load), it theoretically could do V2G but that ain't going to be released afaik. Roadside great espresso is very doable

Having a backup battery in the driveway is better than nothing...probably need to keep the heat pump in check as that can draw some power in wintertime (IF it ever gets cold again).
Cooking will be easy on propane (far easier to buy than butane over here).

 

[Jovidah]

Sounds like you already did the homework!

Cooking is always fairly easy; the energy requirements are marginal.
Butane would never be my backup; it doesn't work well at low temperatures so it can really screw you over in winter.

 

[HappyamateurDK]

Hi again.

I received the burner today.

It works great and could easily run a 26 cm lodge cast iron pan screaming hot when searing a couple of small ribeyes, and also burn at low heat for a fried egg.

Thanks for all your replys

 

[Uncle Danny]

See you next in the cooking thread