Induction cooktop (EU)

[Jovidah]

My girlfriend's moving into a new appartment, and decided to redo the kitchen. It's essentially a blank slate, and we're getting pretty far with the design, but I'm struggling a bit with the cooktop. Because frankly the available options are overwhelming and actually finding out specific details about each model is getting rather laborious.... so I was hoping someone might have some pointers.

The requirements in a nutshell:
-Built-in model, cooktop only
-Ability to use 2x 28 cm frying pan + 1x 24 cm pan at the same time. Both of us often use 2 frying pans, but even on my 5 burner stove I virtually never use more than 3 burners at the same time. If we ever need a 4th burner to simmer some sauce we can always use a standalone.
-Larger coils on the front or center, not in the rear.
-Going wider isn't a problem.
-Don't particularly care about hyperintelligent supersmart bling bling marketing features. All I need is a power button and a way to increase / reduce intensity. But bonus points for one that actually does this smooth.
-Preferably functional on 2x 230v x 16a (basically 2 connected groups, right now there's no 380v group, though this could be changed for an acceptable amount of money - the house already has a 3x25a connection).

The dealbreakers I've ran into so far:
-A lot of the lower end stoves only have 1x21 cm coil, I think using 28 cm frying pan on smaller coiles than 21 cm becomes a hotspot fiesta?
-Some models have 2x 21 cm but place them in a way that using both of them immediately covers all the other burners, thereby making 2x28+1x24 problematic.
-Some models put big coils in the back. Whoever designed those should be fired.
-Don't care about having 5 small burners. Just need 2 big ones and at least 1 semi decent one.

Anyone have any bright suggestions for brands or models to look at?

 

[Corradobrit1]

I would avoid AEG which are very popular over here in Germany (prob cos they are cheap). The glass top scratches as soon as look at it. Looks crap once they start to accumulate. Try to find one with a Schott glass top and go from there. I like the Gaggenau brand.

 

[Boynutman]

I have a Smeg 60cm stove (not just the cook top).
Choose it because
1. it has real knobs instead of touch controls,
2. the burners were spaced furthest apart from all brands I could find.

Quite happy sofar, had it for 4 years. One carbon steel frying pan (26cm?) has warped (but still works OK). On that carbon pan heat distribution is good enough for pancakes. I assume stainless layered pans have better heat distribution.
No experience with other brands.

 

[MarcelNL]

we have the siemens studio line 90cm and I'm pretty pleased with it. Do check pan sizes, I think I read it can be connected using 2 230V lines so do check that out too.
(It has Schott glass)

 

[Jovidah]

I would avoid AEG which are very popular over here in Germany (prob cos they are cheap). The glass top scratches as soon as look at it. Looks crap once they start to accumulate. Try to find one with a Schott glass top and go from there. I like the Gaggenau brand.

Thanks for crushing my dreams. I was actually warming up to the AEG's because they're one of the companies that actually had a lot of sensible burner layouts.
Gaggenau looks great but pricey. The 400 series is the ultimate end-game in induction... but sadly not within budget. 200 series might be doable though.

we have the siemens studio line 90cm and I'm pretty pleased with it. Do check pan sizes, I think I read it can be connected using 2 230V lines so do check that out too.
(It has Schott glass)

Yeah my plan is to not buy anything until I've been able to physically test - with my own pans - whether things 'fit'. Not trivial though since there isn't exactly a cooktop showroom around the corner. Most of it seems to get sold through kitchen stores that want to sell you an entire kitchen.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Thanks for crushing my dreams. I was actually warming up to the AEG's because they're one of the companies that actually had a lot of sensible burner layouts.
Gaggenau looks great but pricey. The 400 series is the ultimate end-game in induction... but sadly not within budget. 200 series might be doable though.

There are some AEG models that specifically say Schott Ceran on the plate but from what I can tell the current models don't have this logo and I would avoid any that don't implicitly state this on the surface. Happy hunting.

This is the Gaggenau that caught my attention
https://www.moebelplus.de/gaggenau-...MI5Y6xxszi_QIV2ajVCh1SYA0fEAQYAiABEgLlRPD_BwE

 

[mengwong]

This is the Gaggenau that caught my attention

I bought the CI283112 for wet kitchen, basically the same thing.

For dry kitchen I got https://www.miele.co.uk/pmedia/ZGA/TX3587/10758371-000-00_10758371-00.pdf

Haven’t installed them yet but based on my experience with induction burners and small pans I will offer that sometimes leaving a small dead zone margin is a good idea because you don’t want the side walls of your pans getting super hot – it’s something that can happen if the walls are sloped and there is no food there to take the heat. I remember a manufacturer explicitly warning about that when talking about sauté pan vs skillet on induction.

 

[MarcelNL]

Just take/get measurements, draw the fields on a piece of paper using different colors per candidate and push your pans around to see what fits best.

I did that with the Siemens...

 

[MarcelNL]

BTW;

Is Gaggenau Made by Bosch?


In 1995, Gaggenau Hausgeräte was acquired by Bosch-Siemens Hausgeräte (BSH Hausgeräte).

 

[Corradobrit1]

BTW;

Is Gaggenau Made by Bosch?


In 1995, Gaggenau Hausgeräte was acquired by Bosch-Siemens Hausgeräte (BSH Hausgeräte).

Maybe owned by Bosch but does not necessarily imply 'Made by Bosch'. Just like a Rolls Royce is not a BMW, even though its owned by BMW.

 

[MarcelNL]

Maybe owned by Bosch but does not necessarily imply 'Made by Bosch'. Just like a Rolls Royce is not a BMW, even though its owned by BMW.

sure, yet you;d be surprised how many parts in a RR are BMW, it's not as if the reliability of RR went up on its own just by better quality management.

the features of the Gaggenau induction plates closely resemble Bosch and Siemens, yet possibly they are making them in another factory.

 

[Migraine]

Strongly advise trying to get one with real controls rather than touch.

Our induction hob is massively better than our old ceramic electric one, but the touch controls really are annoying sometimes. I wanted real knobs, but we won't be staying in this house that long so I didn't want to stump up the extra required to get them. It is quite funny how touch technology was the new, fancy technology compared to buttons not to so long ago but now you only get proper knobs/buttons on high end stuff.

 

[MarcelNL]

IME touch control can work pretty well, the Siemens is a far cry better than the Neff in our interim home which was downright annoying. I'd also have liked knobs but those are rare..

 

[Corradobrit1]

The touch controls on my parents Siemans are really annoying. And I dislike AEG's hybrid system on my cooker with a few touch controls on the cooktop and 4 knobs underneath. Total pain stopping down to see the knobs.

 

[mengwong]

sure, yet you;d be surprised how many parts in a RR are BMW, it's not as if the reliability of RR went up on its own just by better quality management.

the features of the Gaggenau induction plates closely resemble Bosch and Siemens, yet possibly they are making them in another factory.

Given that you will find Bosch parts in both a Rolls-Royce and a BMW it would be surprising to not find Bosch parts in a Gaggenau

 

[Chopper88]

I have no problem with touch controls, the only thing I would advice to look for is a cooktop where you can change a single zone/pot/pan with a single touch.
We now have a Bosch where you must first select zone 1,2,3,4 and then select 0-9 heat, you don't want to know how often I've cursed the damn thing turning the wrong zone up, down or off. Especially when stirring in the same pot the whole time, and then turning off pasta or rice to drain, and then forgetting it was still on that zone when I wanted to change something on the pot I was stirring before draining...

These are just random pictures, but I mean this:

Good:

Bad:

 

[MarcelNL]

I'm using it right now, and the only issue I have with the controls is that usage is so intuitive that I feel no urge to read the manual...thinks like linking the extraction fan is not happening (not a big deal IMHO)

 

[e30Birdy]

we have the siemens studio line 90cm and I'm pretty pleased with it. Do check pan sizes, I think I read it can be connected using 2 230V lines so do check that out too.
(It has Schott glass)

I have the EX675JYW1E as a 60 from Siemens as well because we didn't have room for the big boy. It can be ran 220 and 380. Would totally buy again

 

[Lars]

Here is the Siemens that I put in 6 years ago when my kitchen was installed. Besides the slightly finicky controls I have no complaints. It have served me well..

 

[Jovidah]

@Lars @MarcelNL
I see both of you have 90 cm models... are you running those on 380v or on just a standard 2x230v?
Virtually all the 90 cm models are rated 11k watt, but I don't know how feasible it is to run them on just 2 groups? It's not like all the coils will ever get used on full whack at the same time, but mostly because the spacing on 90s is better.

 

[MarcelNL]

I must admit, I dunno....it's connected with a Perilex. It's a three phase group so i figure it's 380V...
We handed over our wishlist for the kitchen to the builder, and they made it happen...sometimes ignorance is bliss...wish we'd done more of that since there are a few projects left that turn out to be challenging in this day and age.....(try find a plumber to connect a water softener)

 

[Jovidah]

I must admit, I dunno....it's connected with a Perilex. It's a three phase group so i figure it's 380V...
We handed over our wishlist for the kitchen to the builder, and they made it happen...sometimes ignorance is bliss...wish we'd done more of that since there are a few projects left that turn out to be challenging in this day and age.....(try find a plumber to connect a water softener)

It seems like when it comes to kitchen most people just end up throwing money at the problem and even something like a cooktop is often a detail a lot of people don't give too much thought. Most of the people around me I asked could barely tell me anything beyond just the brand of their cooktop, let alone what the reasoning behind their choice was... The 'default' response was 'I like it because it's a lot easier to clean than gas!'. Cute, but not helpful to decide between 857 different induction cooktops.

Considering I have plenty of time to investigate, but we want to limit the investment as much as possible (especially since it's a rental).... I've settled for slaving away on the internet for a few weeks to figure out all the details.

 

[Lars]

@Lars @MarcelNL
I see both of you have 90 cm models... are you running those on 380v or on just a standard 2x230v?
Virtually all the 90 cm models are rated 11k watt, but I don't know how feasible it is to run them on just 2 groups? It's not like all the coils will ever get used on full whack at the same time, but mostly because the spacing on 90s is better.

380V

 

[MarcelNL]

pretty sure it's 380, just that we threw so much money at the kitchen folks that we could not be bothered with the details ;-)

I told the kitchen folks that I wanted the induction hob we selected to be able to go full whack, and whatever it takes is fine since the price difference of 2*220 vs 380 is zero when building a house...given the performance I don't think the induction hob is holding back and figure it's on 380

 

[Jovidah]

The silly thing is that since her appartment is brand new, the connection to the grind is 3x25a, all the technical stuff in the appartment like fuseboxes is 3x25a.... but in all their wisdom they decided to just put in a 2x230v for the kitchen.

Would be a relatively easy and doable fix if it wasn't for the rental organization insisting on having this changed by a licensed electrician... If it was your own home you wouldn't think twice about it but for a rental you always try to limit the investment a bit, especially when it comes to stuff you can't take with you.

If I was designing it from scratch as my own home I'd just supersize and overdimension everything just to futureproof the hell out of it. Like you said, when you're building from scratch the price difference is often negligible.

 

[MarcelNL]

If it's a rental it's weird there is no cooktop....but I've seen that sort of choice more than once in rental places and I assume it's an assumption by the rental org that a renter likely will not want to pay for the higher end cooktops having Dutch Cuisine in their mind... mash and bangers does not really require more than 4 burners now does it ;-)

A licensed electrician is a requirement nowadays, not just in a rental place! (and when it comes to connecting 380 and a cooktop it makes sense IMO)

Most likely you need one anyway to connect the cooktop, as they come with a piece of power cable but no plug and only someone certified is allowed to connect it these days. As you need someone for that (a.o. for any fire insurance) they might as well change the 2*220 to 380, should be little work since there is three phase available.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Its quite common in Germany and Italy to find rental properties without a kitchen. Buying a fitted kitchen is a waste of time and money. The modular Bulthaup B2 system works really well as it can be disconnected and re installed when moving.

 

[Chopper88]

A licensed electrician is a requirement nowadays, not just in a rental place! (and when it comes to connecting 380 and a cooktop it makes sense IMO)

Do you have a source for this?
I know it is in Belgium, but am not aware of this in the Netherlands.

 

[MarcelNL]

Do you have a source for this?
I know it is in Belgium, but am not aware of this in the Netherlands.

ask your insurance company to be sure, in our case the guys that installed the kitchen told me this as they did not connect the cooktop while they did connect the other things on 230V (insofar there was any connection needed, most is pushing a plug in a wall outlet).
They left us with a unusable kitchen (for another week) because the kitchen company had failed to organize things properly.

anyhow, as much as I tinker with electricity ...playing with 380 (actually 400V nowadays) capable of high currents is IMO not something to find out you lack knowledge or experience

(400V needs to be requested with the utility company and they only take requests from certified electricians, or that is what I read)

 

[riba]

Nice to see some inspiration as I need to get an induction cooktop with physical controls in the near future