Induction cooktop (EU)

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If it's a rental it's weird there is no cooktop....but I've seen that sort of choice more than once in rental places and I assume it's an assumption by the rental org that a renter likely will not want to pay for the higher end cooktops having Dutch Cuisine in their mind... mash and bangers does not really require more than 4 burners now does it ;-)
It's 'social housing' from a housing corporation. Gas-free appartment but they're essentially still putting in the exact same kitchens they always have when they were still building for gas. So... a gap of 60 cm to setup place your big freestanding stove in the corner, an undersized row of 3 cabinets that are far too low to work ergonomically, with a tiny midget sink. All they did was replace the gas connection with a 2x230v perilex and called it a day.

It's just not really thought through... the kitchens in those places are always designed by someone who clearly doesn't do any of his own cooking. So it's all coming out.

Personally I don't really care about having more than 4 burners. I almost never use more than 3 burners at the same time. But what I do care about is having the option to use 2x28 cm frying pan + 1x 24 cm pot/saucier at the same time...and that almost invariably pushes you to the bigger fancier stoves. Especially with built-in stuff since the cooktops have less depth.
A licensed electrician is a requirement nowadays, not just in a rental place! (and when it comes to connecting 380 and a cooktop it makes sense IMO)

Most likely you need one anyway to connect the cooktop, as they come with a piece of power cable but no plug and only someone certified is allowed to connect it these days. As you need someone for that (a.o. for any fire insurance) they might as well change the 2*220 to 380, should be little work since there is three phase available.
Yeah I was aware. But we have some people in the family who have a background in electrical engineering so that shouldn't be a problem. It's just that none of them are officially licensed.
Its quite common in Germany and Italy to find rental properties without a kitchen. Buying a fitted kitchen is a waste of time and money. The modular Bulthaup B2 system works really well as it can be disconnected and re installed when moving.
I'd prefer it if it came without a kitchen. Now we end up in the situation where we're literally going to rip out a brand-new crappy kitchen simply because it won't ever work for us. She's 1,83 tall, I'm 1,90. We both already have lower back issues... and we know that both of us get issues from working on standard 90 cm height countertops.
We know that it's risky to overinvest in a rental so the plan is to mostly just keep using her freestanding stuff (dishwasher, fridge), and just throw in a row of 4x80 cabinets with drawers, and throw on a cheaper countertop. When she moves out she'll have to sacrifice the counter-top but she'll be able to bring everything else.

I looked at the Bulthaup B2 system and I can't say I'm a fan. I love the look and concept... but it's incredibly inefficient when it comes to how it uses it's space. The way the doors fold out make it impossible to put other cabinets next to it, while it only uses half of that 'extra' space.
The workbench is even worse IMO. Yes it's pretty but why on earth would you sacrifice your lower cabinets.
 
anyhow, as much as I tinker with electricity ...playing with 380 (actually 400V nowadays) capable of high currents is IMO not something to find out you lack knowledge or experience
Don't know how bad 380v feels (and I don't want to find out), but I found 220v to be rather underwhelming. Was expecting far worse based on all the warnings I got as a child. :D
The main risk is frying your equipment. If you at least remember to take the power off the risk of bodily harm is limited. Which admittedly I have forgotten about twice at this point... 😐

I were renting I would seriously consider something very simple like this to see if I could live with it.

https://amzn.eu/d/bDTxJJ5
Portable can be a plus! It’s fun to sometimes do hot pot and hot plate at the table.
Speaking from experience... it's hell.
The coils are too small so it's really only good for small pans and just... reheating stuff. On the double burners the burners tend to be too close together so it's just really annoying to work with. It's fine for temporary improvisation but really not something you want to use for more than a few weeks.

That being said, I think there is one thing they really shine at: having an easy 'extra' burner for the one time a year you need that one extra. Like I said in my previous post I almost never heat more than 3 pans at the same time (even though I have a 90 cm 5-burner stove). 4 at a time probably only happens during christmas meal prep and other excessive cookeries. I would happily go with a 3 burner cooktop if it checked all my other boxes, and just use one of these simple portable ones as a 4th burner. By the time you're using 4 burners, the 4th one tends to be just boiling down some stock, keeping some sauce warm, or some other simple task that even the most humble portable burner can do perfectly fine.
 
Several of her friends recently got new kitchens as well. Asked them about the cooktop. Answer: "I don't know". :|
Boggles the mind how people can spend thousands on kitchens and not even know the brand of their cooktop.

Minor progress report. Decided to narrow it down. AEG is out. Not just because of the bad review regarding the glass surface, but also because I discovered that they're made by Electrolux...the same company that makes the Ikea appliances. And almost everyone we know who has an Ikea kitchen tells us the same thing: 'the cabinets and everything are great but the appliances suck because they don't last'.

Leaning towards something from BSH for now (Bosch / Siemens / Neff / Gaggenau)... mostly because the experiences of me and everyone around me with BSH has been stellar when it comes to reliability. The control puck system on both the Neff and Gaggenau looks nice, though I'm not sure if they're really the same or slightly different. Though I've mostly been focused on coils for now I have to admit that one of the main things that bothered me about other people's induction stoves I've used in the past was the cumbersome controls that a lot of them had. I don't want to click 4 times just to change a coil's setting.
 
try the Siemens Studioline, I find the controls so intuitive with slider bar that I haven't read the manual yet....and , it has WIFI so it'll talk to your smartphone:LOL:
 
Siemens also has a few that are still on the short-list. My plan is to try and actually 'try' before buying anything... I could see slidey things work well as long as it's smooth and doesn't require playing piano on the buttons.
I couldn't care less about wifi / fancy connectivity / smart features. It's just extra stuff you don't need, don't use, but you're still paying for it. The less features the better. Less complicated means less stuff can break or go wrong.
 
I couldn't care less about wifi / fancy connectivity / smart features. It's just extra stuff you don't need, don't use, but you're still paying for it. The less features the better. Less complicated means less stuff can break or go wrong.
Good call. The life expectancy of the cooktop is probably 25 years or more. What do you think the chances are that the manufacturer will continue to support an app for an appliance they sold you decades ago? Or that the appliance's wireless technology will still be supported by your wifi access point by then? Or that some hacker group hasn't figured out how to install new firmware in your appliance and have it sniff around your network?

IoT is silly. Real silly.
 
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Good call. The life expectancy of the cooktop is probably 25 years or more. What do you think the chances are that the manufacturer will continue to support an app for an appliance they sold you decades ago? Or that the appliance's wireless technology will still be supported by your wifi access point by then? Or that some hacker group hasn't figured out how to install new firmware in your appliance and have it sniff around your network?

IoT is silly. Real silly.
agree, just that you cannot opt out to have the option...only is option is not using it
 
If it is an open api I actually have a use for it. Would beat my current check on whether the gas is left on when going to bed.
 
it's 'wired' through 'home connect' I can switch it off remotely...same with the hood and oven...still trying to connect the Faema Urania but it remains unresponsive although it's labeled WIFI
 
The touch controls on my parents Siemans are really annoying. And I dislike AEG's hybrid system on my cooker with a few touch controls on the cooktop and 4 knobs underneath. Total pain stopping down to see the knobs.
This is really disconcerting to read as someone who had narrowed it down to either a Siemens or an AEG... Any chance you could expand on the hybrid controls?

I would very much like something with physical controls, but the price jump for Smeg or Lofra is too much (double the AEG). I worry that complicated controls will also kill my partners enthusiasm to cook. I'm limiting my options here, but it needs to be freestanding too. What's funny is I'd already ordered a Siemens that was discontinued and they had to cancel, I'm not sure if I dodged a bullet with dificult controls or it's a bit exagerated and i should just order the updated model.

This is decision that's stressing me out far more than it should be and I honestly welcome any thoughts. I'm guessing I can't link to my oven-comparison-website.
 
try the Siemens Studioline, I find the controls so intuitive with slider bar that I haven't read the manual yet....and , it has WIFI so it'll talk to your smartphone:LOL:
Do you happen to know what exact model you have? It seems like there's different models in the Studioline, with different control schemes. Some are mentioning 'touchslider', others are mentioning 'dual lightslider', but I have no idea what the actual difference is.
 
This is really disconcerting to read as someone who had narrowed it down to either a Siemens or an AEG... Any chance you could expand on the hybrid controls?

I would very much like something with physical controls, but the price jump for Smeg or Lofra is too much (double the AEG). I worry that complicated controls will also kill my partners enthusiasm to cook. I'm limiting my options here, but it needs to be freestanding too. What's funny is I'd already ordered a Siemens that was discontinued and they had to cancel, I'm not sure if I dodged a bullet with dificult controls or it's a bit exagerated and i should just order the updated model.

This is decision that's stressing me out far more than it should be and I honestly welcome any thoughts. I'm guessing I can't link to my oven-comparison-website.
Freestanding is pretty much killing all your options. Would really be a last-resort for me. There's just barely anything decent being made in that category, it's all low-end junk.
 
Figured I'd share some of the lessons I've learnt in my research so far, perhaps it may be of use:

On OEM / manufacturing:
-There's a significant amount of OEMing / outsourcing going on, with clearly more 'brands' than actual distinct manufacturers, but it's difficult to really get to solid information on this. Not entirely surprising since these days almost every brand sells 'everything' so it makes sense that some products have to be outsourced.
-For example AEG & Zanussi (both owned by Electrolux) have very similar lineups (down the the exact specs and more distinct layouts) and from what I can gather come out of the same factory in Italy - though this is more an educated guess than established fact.
-Similarly some of the SMEG lineup looks similar to the Zanussi / AEG lineup.
-However I'd be cautious in making blanket statements. It's entirely possible that different models are outsourced to different manufacturers. This applies to a place like Ikea too; most internet rumors reference to Electrolux but it's entirely possible that they switch OEMs over time, or have different OEMs for different models.
-In the same vein there's a huge amount of overlap between Bosch / Siemens / Neff / Gaggenau (and Thermador - US market) appliances (not surprising since they're all part of Bosch Siemens Haushaltgeräte (BSH), these days solely owned by Bosch). There are however some differences in the control schemes, but you often see the exact same underlying model being used in different brands / lines. There isn't necessarily anything nefarious going on here; equivalent models tend to also have equivalent prices regardless of the branding.
-If you really want to deepdive this, look for the repair manuals / schematics / parts; that should be enough to deduct who made what. An experienced repairman who handled a lot of these probably 'knows'.

On reliability:
-The general gist I've gotten from asking retailers is that reliability doesn't vastly differ between the major quality brands, as long as you don't go for the bargain basement junk. Induction cooktops breaking down is considered a rare occurence and the main failure mode is 'customer breaking the glass'.
-That being said, it's worth asking your retailer what the aftersales options are, and sticking to brands where you're actually able to get support. Buying something very niche might not be ideal because it could be very hard to get someone to repair it in the rare occasion it does break down. In the same vein, if I can for example get the same cooktop under the Gaggenau brand or the Siemens brand I'd lean strongly towards the latter because it's a lot easier to find anyone to service them (or even sell them).
-Most retailers said they weren't aware of any significant issues between AEG (no Schott Ceran logos) and glass tops of other brands that did have the logo. However it's possible they simply do not have the information (after all it's usually not something a customer returns with). Still have to send Schott Ceran an email to ask whether all their glassplates will have the logo or whether 'unbranded' models exist.

On technical aspects:
-Coil size coil size coil size. It's all about the coil size. This is where cheaper models cut their costs, and where you can get a horrible experience (small coil + larger pan = sad cook).
-RTFM. The ACTUAL manual. Or at least the manufacturer's page. Too often have I caught retailers having small mistakes, or omissions. This is especially true when it comes to the electrical aspects (for example whether it's a 2x220 or 1x380 model).
-If you're wondering what's actually under a certain flex zone... try to find the repair manual / schematics. You have to dig around a bit but if you have the model number you can usually find it... all the BSH brands actually have them on their website. This is really useful because you can see whether the flex zones simply have round coils under them or actually cover the entire surface of the flexzone.
-There's differences in how manufacturers treat boost modes. Basically your device is subdivided in different zones. BSH devices will disable the other coil(s) within a zone when you boost one. Other manufacturers only reduce power to other coils. If you really care about boost mode (honestly I don't, it's basically a pan-warp mode) this is worth taking a look at.
-Rule of thumb - though there are exceptions - is that most 60-70-80 cm models tend to be 2x230v, whereas most 90 cm models tend to be 3x230v/1x380v.
-If you want to fit certain pan combinations (for example 2x28 cm fry pan + 1x24 cm saucier), actually test the fitting IRL. You'd be surprised how many 80 cm models won't fit this kind of combination because the coils are spaced in ways that have frying pans blocking off another coil. This is just an example but there are a lot of 'suboptimal coil layouts' on the market. Try to really test the spacing with the pans you have or intend to use on it.
-This is especially problematic with flexzones since they tend to be so close together that one large frying pan will essentially make it impossible to use any other pan in the same flexzone (unless it's a really tiny one).

Try to figure out 'how you cook'. What pans do you normally use, how many etc. The ideal cooktop for person A might be horrible for person B and vice versa. I care about having 2 frying pans and a sauce pan and couldn't give a hoot about teppanyaki plates, flexzones for oval pans, or fitting 5 sauce pans, but someone else might have entirely different priorities. You like to make paella in a large pan? Find one of the models that has an oversized center coil (there are models with triple induction rings for example). You like to use large gridle or oval pans? Go ahead and get the flex zone. You want to use 2 large frying pans? Make sure it actually has 2 larger coils (a lot of cheap models don't). It's very easy to buy a cooktop that doesn't fit your way of cooking if you don't pay attention.

And most importantly: try to get a live-test. There are significant differences in controls - even between brands of the same company (like BSH), and there's a certain level of personal preference involved here. If you can actually use it live you'll probably know within a minute if it works for you or not. This has often been a major annoyance for me with induction cooktops I've used in the past and it's one you shouldn't underestimate, since you're pretty much stuck with it for the lifetime of the product.
 
Nothing yet; this is just the start of my research! Leaning to something from BSH though that doesn't narrow it down a whole lot.
Just based on internet the knob control on Neff looks interesting. Definitely a step up from the 'piano experience' I had on some Bosch models.
 
This thread made me wonder, so I looked and my 80cm IQ500-series Siemens can be wired to work on single or multiple fase power. This is not mentioned in the specs though, so you have to have the product in hand to know 🤷‍♂️
 
This thread made me wonder, so I looked and my 80cm IQ500-series Siemens can be wired to work on single or multiple fase power. This is not mentioned in the specs though, so you have to have the product in hand to know 🤷‍♂️
Yes this is why I said RTFM, as they usually mention the different wiring options. For BSH devices there's usually some seperate installation guideline that has this information.
The specs don't always tell the whole story.
 
Yes this is why I said RTFM, as they usually mention the different wiring options. For BSH devices there's usually some seperate installation guideline that has this information.
The specs don't always tell the whole story.
My bad, I should have said documentation. There is no mention of it in the manual either..
 
Yes with BSH the installation guideline is a seperate document. Not sure if it comes with the cooktop but you can at least find them online at the product page.
It's the obscure document that also has all the diagrams with measurements for the hole in the worktop.
 
Freestanding is pretty much killing all your options. Would really be a last-resort for me. There's just barely anything decent being made in that category, it's all low-end junk.
Yeah, I'd figured that out, unfortunately it's too late to really do anything about it. Cheers for what you've written though, it's been helpful.

This thread made me wonder, so I looked and my 80cm IQ500-series Siemens can be wired to work on single or multiple fase power. This is not mentioned in the specs though, so you have to have the product in hand to know 🤷‍♂️

That's one I've been looking at, how good are the touch controls? Like do they respond when you/it are caked in whatever?
 
That's one I've been looking at, how good are the touch controls? Like do they respond when you/it are caked in whatever?
They are fine, only slightly annoying but aren't they all.
 
This reached a conclusion faster than anticipated. Girlfriend managed to snatch this one for 600 euros (it's an outgoing model she managed to snatch at a local discount outlet):

https://www.neff-home.com/de/produk...ogglebox=accessoriesOthers/Togglebox=manuals/
Seems to tick most if not all of the boxes. Couldn't pass this one up. The controls with the twistpad seemed nice and it's probably hard to do much better without spending significantly more, and I didn't feel like taking a gamble on something like AEG.

Thanks for all the help and advice everyone!
 
Yeah the similarities weren't lost on me. The Gaggenau has the more gucci looks, and some more bells & whistles, so they're not completely identical, but in all the things we actually cared about the Neff was 'good enough'.
1200 euro price difference makes it a lot easier to live with some metal bevel and missing out on some temperature sensor we would probably never use anyway. ;)
 
Followup. The thing is actually installed and I actually got to play with it. Controlling with the Neff twistpad actually works really well once you have the hang of it. Way better than having to go touch the glass buttons 6 times to change one setting. This is the first induction cooktop I've used that didn't have me wanting to strangle puppies due to the clunky controls.
 
Followup. The thing is actually installed and I actually got to play with it. Controlling with the Neff twistpad actually works really well once you have the hang of it. Way better than having to go touch the glass buttons 6 times to change one setting. This is the first induction cooktop I've used that didn't have me wanting to strangle puppies due to the clunky controls.
Odd question, would it be easy to use the twistpad blind(folded) and can you control everything (e.g. on/off and power)?
 
Nope. It selects the different burners and their settings, but you still have seperate 'standard' buttons / touch-zones for power and boost. And since that puck is a magnetic thing that comes off, if you were to try and find and use it blind I think you'd just slide it out of the way trying to find it. You also need to be able to see where you have to touch the thing to trigger a certain burner; it works fairly quickly but you do have to be accurate.
So for someone who's actually blind I don't think it'd work well at all. For someone who's only visually impaired but still has some sight...well... it might work, it might not work, you'd have to test it... but I wouldn't outright dare to recommend it.

Here's some Neff promovideos that actually illustrate the concept fairly well. We just have the older version that doesn't have blingy lights in the puck yet.


Bearded hipsters were also not included in our version.
 
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