Instant glue alternative to fill gaps between tang and scales?

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Choppin

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I recently bought a few vintage western handled knives, Japanese and Sabatier-style. I’m having a lot of fun restoring them, but I’m not so satisfied with my solution to fill gaps between tang and scales.

I’m using low viscosity instant glue. It does fill the gaps well, but the wood directly around the tang absorbs it and it’s hard to sand it off (it goes deep and I’d have to remove more wood than I’d like). Of course if I sand the handle before applying glue the wood absorbs more of it, so I’m glueing first, waiting for it to dry, and then sanding. But this issue still happens.

Is there any way around this? Maybe masking the wood with tape? Or just using a different product? I thought about waxing or oiling the handle before applying glue but I believe this would make it harder for the glue to bond to metal as well.

It’s not a huge deal - the glue is transparent after all, but the resulting finish is different. Just wondering what you guys use.

Thanks!



(most of that shiniest area is glue on top of wood - the gap that was filled is only the 0.3-0.5mm closest to the tang)
 
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I like epoxy because it's thicker and fills gaps, and is easy to control. You can use it at the consistency you want simply by waiting a little until it gets to the consistency you're after. And tape.
You can get a few pen blanks of different wood types for cheap and use to make sawdust to mix with the epoxy to color match. Doesn't have to be the same wood type as the handle, just a similar color.
 
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You should try the ‘ol baking soda and ca glue.

Been using it for years being a cheap ass and not wanting to buy a new nut.



Never tried it on knives but works like a charm.
 
I keep thin and thick glue in the shop along with accelerator. You can think of epoxy as very slow thick CA glue (a broad generalization).

You can mask off areas with tape or board butter (1:4 beeswax:mineral oil).

I hope that helps.
 
You absolutely have to mask. This is a universal challenge anyone who works with wood recognizes.
 
thanks guys, very useful tips! @MowgFace that video is very satisfying.

The scales are all tight, I just want to fill in any gaps to avoid moisture damage.

I'll definitely mask next time and test epoxy (+dye or sawdust) and thicker CA glue.

@Heckel7302 I like the idea of beeswax but not sure about durability... I think it will slowly come off with washing?
 
Beeswax has a melt point of around 140F or 60C, so it will stay in place during normal washing. If you're really scrubbing hard, I guess you could remove some when washing, but it mostly seems to say in place. I used it to fill some small scale gaps in a vintage Sabatier and then I sealed the whole thing with Tru Oil.
 
Beeswax has a melt point of around 140F or 60C, so it will stay in place during normal washing. If you're really scrubbing hard, I guess you could remove some when washing, but it mostly seems to say in place. I used it to fill some small scale gaps in a vintage Sabatier and then I sealed the whole thing with Tru Oil.
I'm sealing the handles with diluted tung oil after glueing and sanding, so that might add some protect to the beeswax as well... will try!
 
I just used epoxy for a slightly different application - sealing the ferrule-blade and ferrule-handle gaps on my CCK 1302.

Lazy taping, but much better than my previous no-tape jobs. Worked like a charm.

However, over 24h later and the epoxy isn't as hard as I'd expect - it's somewhat hard but I can make a shallow dent on it if I press hard with my fingernail. I used Araldite 5 min 2-part liquid epoxy. Made sure to mix both parts well and use equal parts (didn't measure anything, just eyeballed it, but couldn't be too far off). Kept it in a well ventilated room at 65-70 degrees.

Is this expected? Should I use a different kind of epoxy? I mean it should survive regular use and washing, but I expected it to be rock hard.

IMG_1972.jpeg
 
Thank you all! Have a similar problem with a new Dehiĺlerin, evidently made by K-Sab. What do you think: first soaking in mineral oil, or first filling? The scales are tight, and the rivets flush.
20230828_112747.jpg
 
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Thank you all! Have a similar problem with a new Dehiĺlerin, evidently made by K-Sab. What do you think: first soaking in mineral oil, or first filling? The scales are tight, and the rivets flush.View attachment 265073

Are you sure that’s true wood, not some kind of pakka / composite? I have a couple of knives from Dehillerin with similar handles, they have those lighter colored bits like yours. Pretty sure the ones I have are not true wood. Maybe try sanding a bit and check the smell?

I have never soaked a synthetic handle, if that’s the case, so I’m not sure how it responds to an oil soak. One thing to consider is that epoxy or glue won’t adhere well to an oiled handle (but beeswax will). Cleaning the area with turpentine, acetone, or other solvent before application is a good idea.
 
Made sure to mix both parts well and use equal parts (didn't measure anything, just eyeballed it, but couldn't be too far off). Kept it in a well ventilated room at 65-70 degrees.

Made sure but didn't measure, eh 🤔

Lol, I strongly suggest using a scale when mixing up a pot. Even a 2g pot. Proper ratio and thorough mixing are pretty important otherwise you can get inferior material properties, and unreacted reagent smells awful.

I also always save the leftover to examine later. I poke at various parts of it, smell it, etc if I have doubts.

Anyway it should get firmer with time (even a week later).
 
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Made sure but didn't measure, eh 🤔

Lol, I strongly suggest using a scale when mixing up a pot. Even a 2g pot. Proper ratio and thorough mixing are pretty important otherwise you can get inferior material properties, and unreacted reagent smells awful.

I also always save the leftover to examine later. I poke at various parts of it, smell it, etc if I have doubts.

Anyway it should get firmer with time (even a week later).
Guilty! I was clearly overconfident in my eyeballing skills lol. I'll just wait a week or so and see what happens. And use a scale next time.
 
@Benuser here is the handle on my Dehillerin parer. Feels rough to the touch, like cardboard.

View attachment 265148
The NOS Nogent handles are usually painted birch. My KSab looks exactly the same. Light and solid, contrary to ebony as with the original handles, which were bored out.
Have checked my Dehillerin handle: certainly no pakka. Any moisture is immediately absorbed and raises the fibers.
20230828_192845.jpg
 
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The NOS Nogent handles are usually painted birch. My KSab looks exactly the same. Light and solid, contrary to ebony as with the original handles, which were bored out.
Have checked my Dehillerin handle: certainly no pakka. Any moisture is immediately absorbed and raises the fibers. View attachment 265156

Interesting! Now that I looked closely at mine I can see some wood grain / pores… I’ll try soaking in oil as well.
 
Thank you all! Have a similar problem with a new Dehiĺlerin, evidently made by K-Sab. What do you think: first soaking in mineral oil, or first filling? The scales are tight, and the rivets flush.View attachment 265073
If the scales are tight, I would do a mineral oil soak, then fill remaining gaps with beeswax, ideally mixed with a little sawdust from sanding the wood a little. I’ve done this to pretty much all my vintage handles and never had any problems.
 
If the scales are tight, I would do a mineral oil soak, then fill remaining gaps with beeswax, ideally mixed with a little sawdust from sanding the wood a little. I’ve done this to pretty much all my vintage handles and never had any problems.

So you melt the beeswax and then mix in sawdust while it’s liquid, then use it to fill the gaps? Is that the process? I’m about to try this with an old handle I’m restoring.
 
So you melt the beeswax and then mix in sawdust while it’s liquid, then use it to fill the gaps? Is that the process? I’m about to try this with an old handle I’m restoring.
Pretty much. Melt wax (just a little) and mix the dust in it. Usually I let that set up then work it into the gaps, then a hair drier to get the wax to melt into the nooks and crannies. Scrape off excess then buff out anything that remains on surface.
 
So you melt the beeswax and then mix in sawdust while it’s liquid, then use it to fill the gaps? Is that the process? I’m about to try this with an old handle I’m restoring.
I do this with not knife specific carpentry projects as a finish: do the final sanding progression, leave the sawdust on, then warm up (light) mineral oil mixed with beeswax and apply. Let it soak in, and then rub the piece all over with a cloth rag to "dry" up the excess, sawdust fills in any gaps as a kind of putty.
 
I do this with not knife specific carpentry projects as a finish: do the final sanding progression, leave the sawdust on, then warm up (light) mineral oil mixed with beeswax and apply. Let it soak in, and then rub the piece all over with a cloth rag to "dry" up the excess, sawdust fills in any gaps as a kind of putty.
Interesting. On most of my woodworking projects I wet sand with tung oil (1:1 with turpentine), the slurry helps filling in any small gaps. Similiar concept.
 
Wee tip I discovered recently - If you want epoxy / glue to be completely black then finely grated charcoal is the way to go. Will match better than sawdust.

(Using a microplane, or the bit of a cheese grater that you use for nutmeg, for instance).
 
Wee tip I discovered recently - If you want epoxy / glue to be completely black then finely grated charcoal is the way to go. Will match better than sawdust.

(Using a microplane, or the bit of a cheese grater that you use for nutmeg, for instance).
oh this sounds perfect for the ebony scales on my vintage knives... will try!
 
You can also use black "epoxy dye". I've used a liquid one I got off of amazon that works very well. One drop into a single use portion of epoxy makes it pitch black.
 
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