Is this the best Santoku knife?

[jaybett]

You seriously don't understand why a tip is useful?

No, I don't understand the Gyuto users Fascination with the tip.

Jay

 

[Lucretia]

OK, you guys will probably all pile on and make me cry :cry: but I have a Ryusen SG2 santoku and really like it. I'm a home cook making small portions, and for a whole lot of applications it's my go-to knife. For a few small onions, mushrooms, garlic, etc. it's my favorite knife. It's a nice smaller size for working on tight countertops, and is big enough for most things I cook. I like the height of the blade for transferring ingredients, and it's just a very, very comfortable knife for me. If I need to do much of anything requiring tip work, I can pull out a paring or utility knife. Or my gyuto. I'm not so worried about which knife is "best all around"--I like the santoku because it's comfortable, holds an edge, sharpens easily, and it cuts really well. I can see where someone packing knives to work would try to have a multipurpose knife, but it doesn't seem as important for a home cook with a drawer full of pointy implements of destruction. I look at what needs to be prepped, and pull out the knife that suits my mood as well as the task at hand. And if the right knife isn't there, then it's just time to buy another knife...

 

[jaybett]

Not a biased opinion, it's fact. Please don't place me in any group either. I like cleavers alright and they have their place as prep monsters. Nakiri have qualities which make them great performers too. What about santoku makes it great? What one thing can it do better than all the other knives? Or better than any one knife?...............

P.S. I have 2 santoku. Neither one of them are great at anything.

Yes, it is a biased opinion, unless you can explain, why the tip of a gyuto is superior to a cleaver, nakiri, or santoku? There are gyuto's that have santoku like tips, does that make them inferior?

The argument that a santoku does nothing great, is an argument that can also be used against the gyuto.

Any given knife, can be the proper one, in the right situation. Just because a knife isn't good in a restaurant doesn't mean it wouldn't work in a home kitchen. Every type of knife has its strength and weaknesses, that is why most of us have a variety of them. To dismiss a knife out of hand, because it doesn't measure up to the strengths of another knife, is short sighted.

Jay

 

[ecchef]

My 'go to' knife at home is a Watanabe santoku, much thinned and slightly reprofiled. It's compact enough for home use and does anything pretty well from splitting a bagel, to dicing veggies, to slicing small cuts of proteins. Does it do everything fabulously? Of course not. Does it do everything I need it to do? Absolutely. And it can take a beating if necessary.

 

[Vertigo]

No, I don't understand the Gyuto users Fascination with the tip.

I'm not buying your argument, bro. Not understanding why a cook appreciates a good tip is like not understanding why an auto mechanic appreciates good torque. If you don't get it, you don't get it. That's cool. Enjoy your santoku man, we all have one.

 

[99Limited]

OK, you guys will probably all pile on and make me cry :cry: but I have a Ryusen SG2 santoku and really like it. I'm a home cook making small portions, and for a whole lot of applications it's my go-to knife. For a few small onions, mushrooms, garlic, etc. it's my favorite knife. It's a nice smaller size for working on tight countertops, and is big enough for most things I cook. I like the height of the blade for transferring ingredients, and it's just a very, very comfortable knife for me. If I need to do much of anything requiring tip work, I can pull out a paring or utility knife. Or my gyuto. I'm not so worried about which knife is "best all around"--I like the santoku because it's comfortable, holds an edge, sharpens easily, and it cuts really well. I can see where someone packing knives to work would try to have a multipurpose knife, but it doesn't seem as important for a home cook with a drawer full of pointy implements of destruction. I look at what needs to be prepped, and pull out the knife that suits my mood as well as the task at hand. And if the right knife isn't there, then it's just time to buy another knife...

I feel the same way. In fact what brought me to these knife forums a year ago was that I bought a Shun santoku from a shop in south NJ, JustKnives101. They carried several lines of J knives that I hadn't seen before so I Googled them and the rest is history. My Shun was a replacement for another santoku that I had used for 10 years. Granted now that I have collected a dozen gyutos, I don't use the santoku very often, but when I do it does everything I need done.

 

[TB_London]

It seems like marketing is what leads people unfamiliar with kitchen knives to get one. I want a new knife>have you tried Japanese knives they're super sharp and cut stuff really well> look at this Japanese shape. The Santoku is easy to sell as Japanese in the same way that Damascus is because it looks obviously different. A Japanese gyuto next to western chef knife to the untrained eye look very similar, so by having something that looks different it's easier to sell, and in the UK at least the santoku is the atypical Japanese knife that every manufacturer is churning out.
I have a carter and a moritaka but will more often reach for a gyuto/fund/petty as they do what I want better. Gyuto are recommended as if you were to only get one knife it is IMO much more versatile.

 

[dav]

I'm probably not the best person for giving out advice as I'm a complete newb when it comes to the subject but I'm in a similar position to the OP and have indeed found after using my newly purchsed Gyuto that it feels both more natural (is that due to balance/geometry) and versatile in comparison to a Santoku I have.

 

[DanB]

Kind of, but there's more to the story.

It was originally marketed towards young Japanese housewives around 1930s-1950ish when western food started becoming popular in Japan as the hip new western knife that was capable of handling meat, fish and veggies. Therefore three virtues. "Hey ladies, wanna be hip and cool and eat like like westerners? Then you need this new knife. You don't need specialized knives like deba, yanagiba and usuba anymore when this one knife does it all!!"

So there's actually 3 sets of "three virtues". Slice, dice, mince. Meat, fish, veg. And Deba, yanagi, usuba. This ************* knife has 9 ************* virtues yall! Buy this **** now!

What do I see there? Marketing talk. Nothing more. And now we've come full circle here in the West. "Wanna have cool Japanese knives ladies? You need a santoku!" That's where I see a lot of the disdain towards this knife coming from as well. The marketing backlash.

All that being said, I have two santoku. Do I take them to work in my kit and use them? No.

Isn't it Rachael Ray who largely popularized the santoku, with her awful Furi knives?

 

[shankster]

Kind of, but there's more to the story.

It was originally marketed towards young Japanese housewives around 1930s-1950ish when western food started becoming popular in Japan as the hip new western knife that was capable of handling meat, fish and veggies. Therefore three virtues. "Hey ladies, wanna be hip and cool and eat like like westerners? Then you need this new knife. You don't need specialized knives like deba, yanagiba and usuba anymore when this one knife does it all!!"

So there's actually 3 sets of "three virtues". Slice, dice, mince. Meat, fish, veg. And Deba, yanagi, usuba. This ************* knife has 9 ************* virtues yall! Buy this **** now!

What do I see there? Marketing talk. Nothing more. And now we've come full circle here in the West. "Wanna have cool Japanese knives ladies? You need a santoku!" That's where I see a lot of the disdain towards this knife coming from as well. The marketing backlash.

All that being said, I have two santoku. Do I take them to work in my kit and use them? No.

That was a direct quote from wikipedia,not my words...Of course there's marketing involved.These companies are in the business to make money,as well as make great knives(almost all of the reputable makers sell santokus in one form or another) so if they can fill a niche market(housewives.home cooks),and still produce a quality knife,who cares?

 

[DeepCSweede]

Ok,maybe "hate " was too strong a word to use.How about "no love"? :-D

That is why I did not use the word "hate" LOL

 

[tk59]

No, I don't understand the Gyuto users Fascination with the tip.

Jay

There's no fascination here. I also don't think there is a bias against "every non-gyuto" knife. It's just the cleaver (clumsy), santoku (short and wants to be a nakiri or gyuto but can't make up it's mind), nakiri (unitasker)-type stuff that many find less than ideal. Frankly, I don't understand why you don't understand, lol.

 

[shankster]

What's wrong with the tip on this beauty?

http://www.toshoknifearts.com/shop/knives/konosuke-stainless-santoku-180mm

 

[Eamon Burke]

Thick tip sections, by virtue of simply having more surface area, create more drag. Worse than that, if you are trying to do something, say, take the rind off an orange or lemon, having that big flat hunk of metal behind the edge prys at it, and makes it hard to work. The tip of a gyuto or chef's knife is nimble and can fit into long, narrow spaces and make turns, a santoku, nakiri, or cleaver cannot. Cutting a circular hole(say, to remove a stem-end) without a thin tip is pretty annoying.

I'm also kind of a minimalist, the sheepsfoot on a santoku isn't doing anything--so why have it?



Preferences aside, that knife looks hella expensive to me. What is essentially a blingy old-school Shun should not cost the same as a Suisin Inox Honyaki.

 

[jaybett]

I'm not buying your argument, bro. Not understanding why a cook appreciates a good tip is like not understanding why an auto mechanic appreciates good torque. If you don't get it, you don't get it. That's cool. Enjoy your santoku man, we all have one.

I didn't say appreciation, I said fascination. Maybe I should have said, enthralled.

Jay

 

[jaybett]

There's no fascination here. I also don't think there is a bias against "every non-gyuto" knife. It's just the cleaver (clumsy), santoku (short and wants to be a nakiri or gyuto but can't make up it's mind), nakiri (unitasker)-type stuff that many find less than ideal. Frankly, I don't understand why you don't understand, lol.

How can you say, there isn't a bias against "every non-gyuto". Almost every thread, I've seen where a new member, is asking for advice on a santoku or nakiri, the usual questions or statements will be posted. Why do you want a santoku?" A gyuto can do everything a santoku can and more? The tip isn't useful on a santoku. The santoku isn't great at anything. On the other hand, if a new member asks about a gyuto, they don't get these types of questions or statements.

If the goal of the forum is to find the ideal knife, then why do so many members use a compromised knife, the gyuto? A nakiri or cleaver, is a better chopping knife then the guyto. A sujihiki is a better slicing knife then a gyuto. If the tip is so important, a petty or even a sujihiki has a better tip,then a gyuto.

I can envision a number of situations where the gyotu would be a good solution to a cook's needs. Can a gyuto user, imagine a situation, where a nakiri, santoku, or cleaver, would be a good solution to a cook's needs?

Jay

 

[bieniek]

What do I see there? Marketing talk. Nothing more. And now we've come full circle here in the West. "Wanna have cool Japanese knives ladies? You need a santoku!" That's where I see a lot of the disdain towards this knife coming from as well. The marketing backlash.

Hahaha and that is said when you use a "gyuto" term just cause it sounds cool.

All is marketing man. Wake up.

Why would you all talk about it being bad choice? It cannot be bad, it is just his/hers personal. The amount of sterlings involved is massive, and that should be pointed out, as well as responses on simple question: Is that best santoku, and NOT is that a best knife in universe.

IMHO it is not the best, but I dont have a clue which would be the best. Look at the BST section. Knives being sold from people who just buy them to have them. Then they realize they dont use it, and sell it. God bless them. You wanna be one of them?

 

[tk59]

...Almost every thread, I've seen where a new member, is asking for advice on a santoku or nakiri, the usual questions or statements will be posted. Why do you want a santoku?" A gyuto can do everything a santoku can and more? The tip isn't useful on a santoku. The santoku isn't great at anything. On the other hand, if a new member asks about a gyuto, they don't get these types of questions or statements...

Most people that I know, including myself started with a santoku and no longer use it (pettys and gyutos seem to be the consensus.). This includes people that don't own more than a handful of knives. Because of this, I think it's a useful question to ask.

 

[DeepCSweede]

I think the point has been made (no pun intended)- How about if the people who do love / use santoku's give a response to our new forum member and the rest of us who don't can keep truckin' on our gyuto/petty lovin' way.

When I bought mine, I knew nothing about its background, I just thought it might be a handy knife to have around and it had a good balance and feel, but I too rarely use mine any more. I use mine for cutting medium hard to hard cheeses and I really like it for that so I really don't have any recommendations for Andrew so I am out.

Andrew - Once again welcome to KKF and good luck in your search.

 

[SameGuy]

I use mine for cutting medium hard to hard cheeses and I really like it for that ...

LMFAO! As I mentioned, my $9 santoku is the one my wife uses, and the only three times I've used it in the last three months is to cut wedges of Reggiano into manageable chunks! It works very well for that, and I don't have to worry about hacking up my real knives' edges.

 

[SpikeC]

What's wrong with the tip on this beauty?

http://www.toshoknifearts.com/shop/knives/konosuke-stainless-santoku-180mm

That profile is a very good match for my Takeda gyuto!

 

[slowtyper]

It seems like marketing is what leads people unfamiliar with kitchen knives to get one. I want a new knife>have you tried Japanese knives they're super sharp and cut stuff really well> look at this Japanese shape. The Santoku is easy to sell as Japanese in the same way that Damascus is because it looks obviously different. A Japanese gyuto next to western chef knife to the untrained eye look very similar, so by having something that looks different it's easier to sell, and in the UK at least the santoku is the atypical Japanese knife that every manufacturer is churning out.

I think this post is spot on about the shape of a santoku being why its popular. Its easy to say, sounds cool, and looks "Japanese".

 

[slowtyper]

the tip on a cleaver is actually super functional. It's different, but very useful. I disagree with the poster who was saying that people here just like gyutos and nothing else....to me that is way off since people here love having suji's cleaver nikiri's yanagibas pettys....pretty much if you can buy it, people want it! Except the santoku...

 

[jaybett]

Most people that I know, including myself started with a santoku and no longer use it (pettys and gyutos seem to be the consensus.). This includes people that don't own more than a handful of knives. Because of this, I think it's a useful question to ask.

You bring up a reasonable concern. The questions and statements I brought up do reflect bias.

Jay

 

[Benuser]

That profile is a very good match for my Takeda gyuto!

You may find a similar profile with the Hiromoto AS 190mm Santoku; other have a flatter, almost Nakiri-like profile

 

[G-rat]

This is the most beautiful santoku I've seen: http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...in-hide-180mm-white-2-hon-kasumi-santoku.html

Profile is excellent. FandF look immaculate...

 

[Andrew H]

No, that santoku is probably not the best. Also without reading a review from someone I trust, or using it in person, I wouldn't buy a knife that expensive.

 

[jaybett]

the tip on a cleaver is actually super functional. It's different, but very useful.

I agree

I disagree with the poster who was saying that people here just like gyutos and nothing else....to me that is way off since people here love having suji's cleaver nikiri's yanagibas pettys....pretty much if you can buy it, people want it! Except the santoku...

If I am the poster you are referring, I didn't say that people here, like gytuos and nothing else. I did say that when there is a question, about a knife that isn't a gyuto, be it a cleaver, nakiri, or santoku, that the knee jerk reaction of the forum is to ask why the person wants that type of knife, and then compare the strengths of the guyto, against the perceived weaknesses of other types of knives. For cleavers and nakiri's its the lack of a pointy tip. As you pointed out the cleaver does have an effective tip. Santokus its an awkward tip, and that it doesn't do a great job at any task. There are gyutos that have santoku tips, are they somehow inferior to gyutos with pointy tips? What general purpose knife does as good as job as the specialized knife?

It isn't about loving or hating a knife, its about does the knife meet the needs of the person? A 270 or 240 gyuto would be a bit cramped in small kitchen. What if the person wanted the ability of a 270mm gyuto to handle large volume of prep, but in a smaller package? Now a cleaver or nakiri makes sense. What if a person doesn't have a lot of prep, but wants a small general purpose knife? A santoku could do that job.

Jay

 

[shankster]

It's gonna be difficult to recommend any style of knife to the OP without more specific information.Carbon or SS,home or pro cook,wa or western handle etc etc..

 

[Andrew H]

If I am the poster you are referring, I didn't say that people here, like gytuos and nothing else. I did say that when there is a question, about a knife that isn't a gyuto, be it a cleaver, nakiri, or santoku, that the knee jerk reaction of the forum is to ask why the person wants that type of knife, and then compare the strengths of the guyto, against the perceived weaknesses of other types of knives. For cleavers and nakiri's its the lack of a pointy tip. As you pointed out the cleaver does have an effective tip. Santokus its an awkward tip, and that it doesn't do a great job at any task. There are gyutos that have santoku tips, are they somehow inferior to gyutos with pointy tips? What general purpose knife does as good as job as the specialized knife?

It isn't about loving or hating a knife, its about does the knife meet the needs of the person? A 270 or 240 gyuto would be a bit cramped in small kitchen. What if the person wanted the ability of a 270mm gyuto to handle large volume of prep, but in a smaller package? Now a cleaver or nakiri makes sense. What if a person doesn't have a lot of prep, but wants a small general purpose knife? A santoku could do that job.

Jay

I think the reason we usually ask why someone wants a 'x' instead of a gyuto is that most new posters aren't familiar with the strengths and weaknesses of a santoku vs. nakiri vs. cleaver vs. gyuto. The gyuto is probably the best all around knife because it is lighter than a cleaver and can do tip work that I find difficult with a cleaver. A nakiri is a good vegetable knife but there aren't nearly as many options for good nakiris as there are gyutos. Santokus are fine but as Eamon said they don't do certain things as well as gyutos.
Could a santoku do everything a gyuto does? Sure. Is it the best tool for any job other than splitting big hunks of cheese? If so I haven't found one.

You seem to be a fan of the santoku, what do you think it does better than a gyuto?