Magnacut and Synthetic Stones

[DoYoon Kim]

Hello -

Looking to see if people have experience with Magnacut on synthetic stones. Been curious about this steel this week and have been reading up on it, but would also never buy a knife I don't feel comfortable maintaining with my current setup.

My current set up is a Synthetic Aoto 600, Shapton Glass 1000, and a RSK Synthetic 4000 +Leather strop. Unfortunately do not have time to go above 4k / work with Jnats, but hope to one day go down that rabbit hole.

Curious what this sharpening group thought of experience putting magnacut on a non-diamond stone.

 

[MSicardCutlery]

Look up the thread "MagnaCut PassAround *Live*" There's tons of sharpening feedback there.

 

[ptolemy]

MagnaCut passaround [LIVE]

Would any knife steel nerds like to try out Another very thin MagnaCut gyuto as a passaround? Good opportunity to check out @MSicardCutlery’s work… I’d be happy for people to spend a week or two with the knife. Put it to the test re edge retention, just no brass nails please. Please snap...

www.kitchenknifeforums.com

 

[1315]

I'm sure people will chime in, but in the mean time... Thoughts on Sharpening MagnaCut

I don't have your stones, so I can't comment, but I've not had any issue with my synthetics and Magnacut on sharpening. Thinning and maintenance would be a different discussion..

 

[jedy617]

Just grab a venev double sided diamond and you will be good to go. Would not recommend alox stones, it's a painful experience doing any high mc carbide knife.

 

[DoYoon Kim]

Well that was a long read... got hint and will stick with the simple steels, have been avoiding Hap40 for this reason. Wasn't sure if this was like a vg10 -> sg2 type upgrade.

Still trying to master a paper towel thin edge consistently. I'd like more confidence in my hands before ideally going to diamond.

 

[ptolemy]

Well that was a long read... got hint and will stick with the simple steels, have been avoiding Hap40 for this reason. Wasn't sure if this was like a vg10 -> sg2 type upgrade.

Still trying to master a paper towel thin edge consistently. I'd like more confidence in my hands before ideally going to diamond.

i was able to sharpen sg2 (shun) on chosera NP. i did magnacut on diamonds only (chinese) it wasn't fast but got a decent edge is about 10-12 min... and 1000 and 3000 cost about $60

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

No issues with magnacut on synth stones. It is just very slow. Not only does it take a very fine edge, it seems to want to take a very fine edge. Again, it is just very slow, about 3-4 times as long as a standard carbon knife. Upside is it holds an amazing edge. It is in a whole other level from Aogami, Hap40, etc.

Hap40 is another great steel. Takes a great edge, not very difficult to sharpen, just a little slower but not by much. I have a Nakiri that is a sanmai laminate. Super thin. Bought it from ibukiblades for like $80. Made a handle for it. Amazing vegetable knife that due to the strength of the hap40 being able to be so thin, it works well cutting super thin slices of meat. Hap40 is one of my favorites.

Below is my magnacut after thinning and the first sharpening with a Norton crystalon 120. Bottom video is after the stone progression up to a black Ark.

 

[captaincaed]

Bottom video is after the stone progression up to a black Ark.

I haven’t been satisfied with a magnacut edge yet. I normally do 1-3k because that’s what like on conventional steels. You’re making me wonder if I didn’t take it far enough.

 

[MSicardCutlery]

I haven’t been satisfied with a magnacut edge yet. I normally do 1-3k because that’s what like on conventional steels. You’re making me wonder if I didn’t take it far enough.

I like it a lot off a 2k diamond plate, but finishing on a BBW has given me great results so far too.

 

[ptolemy]

I like it a lot off a 2k diamond plate, but finishing on a BBW has given me great results so far too.

have you tried finishing it on synthetic 5k? like shapon or chosera? after your 2k diamond plate that is

 

[blokey]

Really depends how thin the edges are, I'm actually pretty amazed how Newham sharpened up, but the passaround knife which was thick when passed to me was a pain (Tho no fault of @MSicardCutlery tho, everyone just experimenting with the new steel and the knife lost quite a bit of edge height when it was passed to me)

 

[blokey]

I haven’t been satisfied with a magnacut edge yet. I normally do 1-3k because that’s what like on conventional steels. You’re making me wonder if I didn’t take it far enough.

I will be honest I find not just MagnaCut but most PM steel hard to reach that carbon biteness for me, but they can take a fine edge

 

[MSicardCutlery]

have you tried finishing it on synthetic 5k? like shapon or chosera? after your 2k diamond plate that is

I don't have any real synthetics, only a venev 240/400 and a BBW right now, and before that it was $10 Chinese made diamond plates. I strongly suspect however, that synthetics will become less and less effective as the grit size goes up. Some success in the PA thread was reported with Shapton Glass stones, but IIRC, that was in the <2k range. I think the BBW may have been the best performer of the mid-high grit stones, but its been a while since I went through the thread. I do use it quite frequently as reference material with customers to get the point home that AlO stones are less than ideal for MC though.

 

[Barmoley]

I haven’t been satisfied with a magnacut edge yet. I normally do 1-3k because that’s what like on conventional steels. You’re making me wonder if I didn’t take it far enough.

MagnaCut has very fine carbide structure and grain size, so should do well at higher grids. I also like 1-3K edges and it has been good for me using diamond stones in this grid range. Haven't tried higher, but maybe an interesting experiment to do. MagnaCut reminds me of Z-wear at the same grid except MagnaCut feels a bit smother, but this is probably just in my head since I very much doubt I could actually tell the difference between the two in this respect.

 

[ptolemy]

I don't have any real synthetics, only a venev 240/400 and a BBW right now, and before that it was $10 Chinese made diamond plates. I strongly suspect however, that synthetics will become less and less effective as the grit size goes up. Some success in the PA thread was reported with Shapton Glass stones, but IIRC, that was in the <2k range. I think the BBW may have been the best performer of the mid-high grit stones, but its been a while since I went through the thread. I do use it quite frequently as reference material with customers to get the point home that AlO stones are less than ideal for MC though.

ya, I use chinese diamond stones. not ready to drop $300 on 2 nicer ones. i was thinking of using shapton 4k or 5k as finishing after 2 or 3k diamond

 

[Bensbites]

I sharpen my magnacut gyuto on shapton glass and pros as well as a king 8000. No problem.

I send this knife out to 20+ people on a passaround and people said it was easy to sharpen.

 

[M1k3]

I haven’t been satisfied with a magnacut edge yet. I normally do 1-3k because that’s what like on conventional steels. You’re making me wonder if I didn’t take it far enough.

Try finishing on a Coticule. Love the edge it leaves on Z-wear.

 

[ptolemy]

this is kinda funny... but anytime I get different steels, I wonder if it's truly that steel or not.. I mean, how would I know for sure... I trust the knifemaker, but maybe were had....

many people say magnacut is a beast for non diamond, but then someone says, shapton are NP... i guess i also have to wonder what do people consider np... is 6-8 min per stone average? or anything over 2-3 min = slow?

definately curious!

 

[DoYoon Kim]

For me if I'm fussing over it for more than 10 min its probs a knife I should get rid of... I'm also very slow so a white #2 still takes me 5min...

 

[blokey]

Hardness, thinness behind the edge matter a lot for sharpening easiness

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

I will be honest I find not just MagnaCut but most PM steel hard to reach that carbon biteness for me, but they can take a fine edge

What you mention here is exactly what we (me and a local blacksmith) noted with this magnacut knife. This was his first try with magnacut so it was all a big experiment. (And I got an AWESOME deal on the knife.)

When it was done, the first time, first grind, finished on a Wen I think 200 grit stone wheel, the edge was VERY refined, sharp, and particularly smooth. Much more so than would normally be expected at this grit. Actually, because of this we said, heck, let’s do some razors! This should be an amazing steel for a straight razor!

Anyways, the knife was more of a chopper than a slicer. The blacksmith like choppers and I like slicers. And I like to sharpen knives so I thought I would just thin this down to a slicer. That was crazy. It took MANY sessions on a belt sander, ate a number of 50 grit belts, before I even could get to stones. When I finally did get it thin on the belts, and thinned more on the stones, only after that was it time to work on setting / resetting the final cutting edge.

I started with the Norton crystalon 120. The edge off of this stone was far more refined and smoother than any steel I’ve ever used. Essentially, magnacut is so abrasion resistant and inclined to take such a fine edge that a 120 grit stone basically acts like a 1000 grit stone. This is probably why it can slice through a paper towel as I showed in the video above.

What you are saying about lacking the toothy carbon steel-type edge, IMHO is exactly right. It is a refined, sharp, smooth edge that starts off that way and only gets smoother as you progress up in grit.

I will say this about sharpening it. You absolutely have to be sure you did ALL the work on the rough stones. If you think you did just enough on the rougher stones and the finer stones will get you the rest of the way, they won’t. You need a completely done apex on the roughest stones no matter how long it takes, and that could take a while.

 

[blokey]

What you mention here is exactly what we (me and a local blacksmith) noted with this magnacut knife. This was his first try with magnacut so it was all a big experiment. (And I got an AWESOME deal on the knife.)

When it was done, the first time, first grind, finished on a Wen I think 200 grit stone wheel, the edge was VERY refined, sharp, and particularly smooth. Much more so than would normally be expected at this grit. Actually, because of this we said, heck, let’s do some razors! This should be an amazing steel for a straight razor!


View attachment 269257 View attachment 269258

Anyways, the knife was more of a chopper than a slicer. The blacksmith like choppers and I like slicers. And I like to sharpen knives so I thought I would just thin this down to a slicer. That was crazy. It took MANY sessions on a belt sander, ate a number of 50 grit belts, before I even could get to stones. When I finally did get it thin on the belts, and thinned more on the stones, only after that was it time to work on setting / resetting the final cutting edge.

I started with the Norton crystalon 120. The edge off of this stone was far more refined and smoother than any steel I’ve ever used. Essentially, magnacut is so abrasion resistant and inclined to take such a fine edge that a 120 grit stone basically acts like a 1000 grit stone. This is probably why it can slice through a paper towel as I showed in the video above.

What you are saying about lacking the toothy carbon steel-type edge, IMHO is exactly right. It is a refined, sharp, smooth edge that starts off that way and only gets smoother as you progress up in grit.

I will say this about sharpening it. You absolutely have to be sure you did ALL the work on the rough stones. If you think you did just enough on the rougher stones and the finer stones will get you the rest of the way, they won’t. You need a completely done apex on the roughest stones no matter how long it takes, and that could take a while.

View attachment 269259
View attachment 269260
View attachment 269261

They do take a very fine edge and the razor would be fun! By local do you mean smiths in Japan? Would love to see their take on the steel

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

They do take a very fine edge and the razor would be fun! By local do you mean smiths in Japan? Would love to see their take on the steel

This blacksmith is a westerner who comes from a blacksmith family. He is more familiar with western steels than Japanese. For him this is more of a hobby than work.
In our area there are only 3 or 4 local blacksmiths that we know of. One does only cheap knives made from recycled metals such as certain types of leaf springs off of old Toyota’s. Two are almost exclusively sword makers. It isn’t anything like Osaka or Kyoto with those families who have been making everything from swords to cutlery for several hundred years.
On the flip side, Japanese are very much into the concept of “tried and true”. I was reading about Muneishi and how this family has absolutely mastered aogami 2 and was pushing the HRC to around 64-65. I have one of these knives and it is amazing.

Magnacut is a game changer BUT as my local blacksmith stated in referring to these new steels, “it used to be how many knives can I get of of one belt, now it is how many belts is it going to take to finish the one knife”.

Those razors have been sitting in that same condition for about 7 months now. We haven’t returned to them. Thinning that knife scarred me and we are talking about removing only fractions of a millimeter. Finishing those razors is nightmarish and I doubt I have that amount of patience.

We ordered some AEBL because the vendor, Alpha Knife or Pops, I forget which said it was invented specifically for straight razors and it was super cheap. He made some straight razors with them, and I sharpened them. Easy and took an amazing edge. Gave a great shave. The blacksmith mentioned that they were almost too easy to make and they lacked the hardness of higher carbon stainless. So I reviewed it with him: easy to make (meaning less belts), easy to sharpen, takes a great edge, and it’s dirt cheap. Yep, I can see why this would be loved by straight razor makers.

IMHO Magnacut is going to remain a bit of a rarity due to the high cost of the steel itself, the volume of supplies needed to finish it, and the labor involved. I don’t see it being accepted into the Japanese blacksmithing families. I do think we will see stuff like hap40 and ZDP becoming more common in Japan as more families use and perfect their processes. Both of these have the potential to sh4t all over shirogami and aogami. Actually I was very intent on somehow getting a monosteel hap40 custom knife made until I found out about magnacut. For these new PM steels I don’t see the functional benefit to covering them / sanmai configuration with the exception that finishing them is a lot easier.

 

[blokey]

This blacksmith is a westerner who comes from a blacksmith family. He is more familiar with western steels than Japanese. For him this is more of a hobby than work.
In our area there are only 3 or 4 local blacksmiths that we know of. One does only cheap knives made from recycled metals such as certain types of leaf springs off of old Toyota’s. Two are almost exclusively sword makers. It isn’t anything like Osaka or Kyoto with those families who have been making everything from swords to cutlery for several hundred years.
On the flip side, Japanese are very much into the concept of “tried and true”. I was reading about Muneishi and how this family has absolutely mastered aogami 2 and was pushing the HRC to around 64-65. I have one of these knives and it is amazing.

Magnacut is a game changer BUT as my local blacksmith stated in referring to these new steels, “it used to be how many knives can I get of of one belt, now it is how many belts is it going to take to finish the one knife”.

Those razors have been sitting in that same condition for about 7 months now. We haven’t returned to them. Thinning that knife scarred me and we are talking about removing only fractions of a millimeter. Finishing those razors is nightmarish and I doubt I have that amount of patience.

We ordered some AEBL because the vendor, Alpha Knife or Pops, I forget which said it was invented specifically for straight razors and it was super cheap. He made some straight razors with them, and I sharpened them. Easy and took an amazing edge. Gave a great shave. The blacksmith mentioned that they were almost too easy to make and they lacked the hardness of higher carbon stainless. So I reviewed it with him: easy to make (meaning less belts), easy to sharpen, takes a great edge, and it’s dirt cheap. Yep, I can see why this would be loved by straight razor makers.

Thanks! That's interesting, it is indeed much more effort to do modern PM steels. Muneishi sounds good too, I will probably get some of their blanks from Ibuki, they looks nice.

AEB-L is very fine grained steel, actually more so than some PM steels, they are developed for safety razors according to Larrin. They can achieve quite high hardness but need Cryo, good steel and I own some knives in them. Ashi Hamono makes their stainless knives in them around 60 HRC and those are really good.

All About AEB-L - Knife Steel Nerds

I've gathered all of the information I have on AEB-L steel, including its history, toughness, edge retention, ease in sharpening, and other properties.

knifesteelnerds.com

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

Thanks! That's interesting, it is indeed much more effort to do modern PM steels. Muneishi sounds good too, I will probably get some of their blanks from Ibuki, they looks nice.

AEB-L is very fine grained steel, actually more so than some PM steels, they are developed for safety razors according to Larrin. They can achieve quite high hardness but need Cryo, good steel and I own some knives in them. Ashi Hamono makes their stainless knives in them around 60 HRC and those are really good.

All About AEB-L - Knife Steel Nerds

I've gathered all of the information I have on AEB-L steel, including its history, toughness, edge retention, ease in sharpening, and other properties.

knifesteelnerds.com

AEBL is badass. It doesn’t get a carbon-like toothy edge and edge retention is OK but not great. It does strop better than any other steel I’ve used. Edge is gone, strop, edge is back as good as new. That is crazy. I would LOVE to have one that someone pushed to its HRC limit. I don’t know if that would be good or bad but I am curious.

The subtle thing about the Muneishi, is the grind and overall design is so well thought out. I have a lot of knives and this tops them all for design profile. The kicker is they are not very expensive.

This knife, at $65 (add $10 for shipping), is nuts.

Kosuke Muneishi Hand forged blank blade Blue #2 steel Kurouchi Kiritsuke Santoku knife 150mm

Using yasuki hagane blue #2 steel and the tempering method taking over from the first-generation head gives high quality stabilizes resulting in greater, HRC 64-65 hardness. -- Item detail -- approx size and weight Kiritsuke Santoku knifeBlade length 152mm, Total length 255mm, Blade width 40mm...

ibukiblade.com

I have the 150mm petty with stainless clad that is sold out right now.

 

[ptolemy]

Wow, that's some thick boi magnacut billet! I usually see thm about 4mm max, and that's like 20mm thick!

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

AEBL is badass. It doesn’t get a carbon-like toothy edge and edge retention is OK but not great. It does strop better than any other steel I’ve used. Edge is gone, strop, edge is back as good as new. That is crazy. I would LOVE to have one that someone pushed to its HRC limit. I don’t know if that would be good or bad but I am curious.

The subtle thing about the Muneishi, is the grind and overall design is so well thought out. I have a lot of knives and this tops them all for design profile. The kicker is they are not very expensive.

This knife, at $65 (add $10 for shipping), is nuts.

Kosuke Muneishi Hand forged blank blade Blue #2 steel Kurouchi Kiritsuke Santoku knife 150mm

Using yasuki hagane blue #2 steel and the tempering method taking over from the first-generation head gives high quality stabilizes resulting in greater, HRC 64-65 hardness. -- Item detail -- approx size and weight Kiritsuke Santoku knifeBlade length 152mm, Total length 255mm, Blade width 40mm...

ibukiblade.com

I have the 150mm petty with stainless clad that is sold out right now.

You may have seen this before but if not I thought you might like it.

 

[zizirex]

I have finished my Magnacut on some Suita, it's kinda hard but it's not by any means hopeless.
my usual progression is SP1K and SG3K.
if I have some time I will finish it on Natural stone, but that if I have luxury on time.

for maintenance, I have a leather strop with 5-7 microns diamond compound.