Monosteel western handle Gyuto discussion thread

[blokey]

Sugimoto these days are mostly associated with their Chinese chef knives, but I've heard quite good opinions on their Western styled knife too. Anyone has experience with these knives? How is their Carbon and CM stainless? What is their CM stainless or any guesses? There aren't many retailers sell these knives, even the ones do don't really have much details. The only place seems to have any details seems to be Burrfection... He listed the carbon as 60-64 in hardness, so pretty wild guess... Tho giving him some credit, his choil shot is better than most...
https://burrfectionstore.com/collections/sugimoto/products/sugimoto-high-end-line-carbon-steel-gyuto

 

[kpham12]

Sugimoto recently updated their website, but the old site had a little blurb that said their CM stainless steel alloy contained C, Cr, Mo, V and W. I don’t know how accurate that description was, but the only conventional stainless used in Japanese knives I’ve seen with that composition is VG7 which I’ve only seen used by Makoto Kurosaki.

I have the small cleaver and a 270 mm gyuto in CM, have used, sharpened and thinned the cleaver quite a bit. Steel has some carbon like keenness to it like AEB-L. Easy to sharpen and deburr for stainless, not gummy feeling. I like the edge retention more than entry level AUS8/10, 440C, VG10, etc.

The 270 gyuto is handle heavy with a slightly higher tip than a lot of yo handle gyutos so the balance and profile makes it feel kind of like a German/French chef knife.

The carbon should be the same steel as on the cleavers but monosteel. White #2 or in that neighborhood.

Grinds are very asymmetric with a big relief bevel that can be raised to kind of thin the knife without getting scratches on the the whole face of the knife.

On a side note, there’s a big price jump between the 240 to 270 gyutos. I saw an interview with the head guy at Sugimoto’s shop where he said they have some production problem with gyutos over 240 mm so they’re more expensive. But if you check eBay and Japanese auction sites, a 270 will pop up occasionally at a good price.

 

[blokey]

Sugimoto recently updated their website, but the old site had a little blurb that said their CM stainless steel alloy contained C, Cr, Mo, V and W. I don’t know how accurate that description was, but the only conventional stainless used in Japanese knives I’ve seen with that composition is VG7 which I’ve only seen used by Makoto Kurosaki.

I have the small cleaver and a 270 mm gyuto in CM, have used, sharpened and thinned the cleaver quite a bit. Steel has some carbon like keenness to it like AEB-L. Easy to sharpen and deburr for stainless, not gummy feeling. I like the edge retention more than entry level AUS8/10, 440C, VG10, etc.

The 270 gyuto is handle heavy with a slightly higher tip than a lot of yo handle gyutos so the balance and profile makes it feel kind of like a German/French chef knife.

The carbon should be the same steel as on the cleavers but monosteel. White #2 or in that neighborhood.

Grinds are very asymmetric with a big relief bevel that can be raised to kind of thin the knife without getting scratches on the the whole face of the knife.

On a side note, there’s a big price jump between the 240 to 270 gyutos. I saw an interview with the head guy at Sugimoto’s shop where he said they have some production problem with gyutos over 240 mm so they’re more expensive. But if you check eBay and Japanese auction sites, a 270 will pop up occasionally at a good price.

Thanks! It is indeed quite a big jump from 240 to 270, otherwise it sounds great. Tho I’m not a big fan of heavy handles, hope the 240 is a bit different…

I’m really getting into monosteel western handle gyuto recently, having a Masakane 270 s route and considering either one from Sugimoto, Ichimonji White #2, Masahiro VC or Kiya #6

 

[kpham12]

Masakanes are nice, pretty thin. I think they have some variance, but the well ground ones are very Ashi-like.

Masahiro VC is good stuff, but needs a little thinning. I think Kiya #6 is OEM by Misono which could also use a bit of thinning BTE.

Just googled the Ichimonji White #2, looks solid from the pictures, good pricing for a 270 too.

 

[deltaplex]

Masakanes are nice, pretty thin. I think they have some variance, but the well ground ones are very Ashi-like.

Masahiro VC is good stuff, but needs a little thinning. I think Kiya #6 is OEM by Misono which could also use a bit of thinning BTE.

Just googled the Ichimonji White #2, looks solid from the pictures, good pricing for a 270 too.

Kiya #6 is Tojiro

 

[kpham12]

Kiya #6 is Tojiro

I think Kiya sells knives from several makers under their own brand. I was referring to the Kiya Swedish/EU Carbon #6 line with the brass rivets in the handle.

https://kiya-hamono.jp/en/products/3060602240?variant=41251007004850
Here’s an older example with the Kiya kanji and Misono branding on the back.

 

[deltaplex]

It looks like there might be some variations on them? I don't think Tojiro makes the Swedish Steel DP series anymore, but they certainly used to, and the Kanji on this example is pretty much identical to the ones on the Swedish Steel DPs:

From this thread: Restore an old Kiya gyuto

If you do a search for them, you can see several different iterations of the backside Kanji stamped as the #6, so we might both be correct?

 

[blokey]

Another monosteel candidate, Tsukiji Masamoto, they have both Takefu V1 and SK3 steel, looks pretty nice
https://www.tukijimasamoto.co.jp/collections/牛刀各種-鋼製/products/gyua180

 

[MowgFace]

I’ve always wanted a Suien. Solid Blue #2

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/suien/products/suien-vc-240mm-gyuto

 

[Benuser]

I’ve always wanted a Suien. Solid Blue #2

https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/suien/products/suien-vc-240mm-gyuto

A fantastic knife, but strongly right-biased if that matters and coming OOTB with an almost chisel-like edge. More neutral in balance than we are used to.

 

[blokey]

One more candidate, fairly cheap, one search in the forum finds people seem to like them
https://www.hocho-knife.com/sabun-all-steel-hand-finished/

 

[blokey]

Aritsugu super alloy anyone?
https://aritsugu.jp/超合金鋼ツバ付牛刀/

 

[blokey]

Aritsugu super alloy anyone? https://aritsugu.jp/超合金鋼ツバ付牛刀/

Bit a question regarding Aritsugu type A, I’ve read they changed to AUS-10, but the description on their website still says it is a semi-stainless steel, is it the original type A steel or AUS-10?

“こちらの包丁は錆びにくい鋼でできている一枚鋼の包丁になります。 こちらの鋼は合金鋼に錆びにくい物を入れてできており、鋼とステンレスの間の存在になります。 錆びにくいですが、ベースは合金鋼ですので濡れたままにしていると錆びてしまいます。 切れ味は鋼に近くなっており、ステンレスとは比べ物にならない切れ味になります。 こちらは錆びにくい鋼の包丁ですが、使い終わりましたらよく水気をお取りください。 柄の方もよくふいてください。 錆がでてきましたらクレンザー等で磨いて頂ければ問題はありません。 ツバ(包丁と柄の間にある銀色の部分)付の包丁ですので、ツバの部分に名前を入れることもできます。ただしツバの部分が狭い為、漢字2,3文字が限度になります。 サイズは、刃渡りになります。

This knife is a one-piece steel knife made of rust-resistant steel. This steel is made of alloy steel with rust-resistant material, which is between steel and stainless steel. It is rust-resistant, but the base is alloy steel, so it will rust if it is left wet. The sharpness is close to that of steel, and is incomparable to stainless steel. This is a rust-resistant steel knife, but please remove water well after use. Please wipe the handle well, too. If rust appears on the handle, please polish it with a cleanser or the like, and there will be no problem. The handle is silver-colored, so you can put your name on the flange. However, since the flange is narrow, only 2 or 3 kanji characters are allowed. The size is the length of the blade

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)”

 

[blokey]

One more candidate, Togiharu VC, one search in the forum didn’t show much results, tho people who had it seems to be happy with it.
https://www.korin.com/HTO-HCGY-240?...2%7D&custcol_sca_line_id=mainItem%3Af12tydg5w

 

[Krouton]

I’m also a big fan of Monosteel westerns, I probably use my Masakane more than any other gyuto. Masahiro’s V2 is great, but I only have a honesuki in that line so I can’t really compare. Sabun is pretty solid for the price, about on par with Fujiwara FKH imo. I don’t have any experience with them but Kikuichi Elite is another option that used to be fairly popular. CKTG has also just listed a couple SK gyutos under the Tsunehisa name

 

[MowgFace]

It looks like there might be some variations on them? I don't think Tojiro makes the Swedish Steel DP series anymore, but they certainly used to, and the Kanji on this example is pretty much identical to the ones on the Swedish Steel DPs:

View attachment 253629
From this thread: Restore an old Kiya gyuto

If you do a search for them, you can see several different iterations of the backside Kanji stamped as the #6, so we might both be correct?

That’s my knife now lol. Thanks @adam92

Love me some cheap westerns #StickerGang

 

[Krouton]

That’s my knife now lol. Thanks @adam92

Love me some cheap westerns #StickerGang

View attachment 257557

How do you like the Goko Kogetsu? I’ve been curious about them

 

[MowgFace]

I recently picked it up off of @Choppin (thank you!) and it is miles above the pack (of western knives I have). Superior grind lends itself to a more pleasurable cutting experience.

 

[labor of love]

Threads like this piss me off because l love mono yo carbons but I’m a lefty and the majority of this stuff is ground for righty’s
Would love to pick up a Goko wh1 but hear they’re very biased in grind.

 

[MowgFace]

Threads like this piss me off because l love mono yo carbons but I’m a lefty and the majority of this stuff is ground for righty’s
Would love to pick up a Goko wh1 but hear they’re very biased in grind.

The one I have is SK but it definitely is righty ground. It’s very subtle but there for sure.

 

[labor of love]

Masamoto HC or Masahiro VC will be my next purchase. Togiharu VC has a good reputation. A Virgin carbon round up/shoot out would make for a great thread.

 

[Krouton]

I recently picked it up off of @Choppin (thank you!) and it is miles above the pack (of western knives I have). Superior grind lends itself to a more pleasurable cutting experience.

Thanks, I really gotta pick one up one of these days

 

[Krouton]

Threads like this piss me off because l love mono yo carbons but I’m a lefty and the majority of this stuff is ground for righty’s
Would love to pick up a Goko wh1 but hear they’re very biased in grind.

Strata carries them and I believe they can regrind it for you as well

 

[Choppin]

That’s my knife now lol. Thanks @adam92

Love me some cheap westerns #StickerGang

View attachment 257557

nice gang! who is the maker/brand behind the ones with purple label?

@Krouton yeah I really liked that Goko. If you like yo monosteels you won’t be disappointed. It’s a bit taller than most (52mm for a 240 IIRC), grind is really well executed and thin BTE (not just flat faces with chiseled edge like a Misono) and has the right kind of wabi sabi. The handle/scales F&F is kinda meh but not terrible. Overall one of the best monosteels out there IMO.

@blokey where did you get the 270 Masakane if I may ask?

 

[MowgFace]

nice gang! who is the maker/brand behind the ones with purple label?

The ones I have are Masahiro branded. Simple carbon that I thought was SK, but a fellow KKFer suggested they are V2 (iirc) and I’d believe them over me. The 210 looks to be on the ‘Zon for $51, 240 for $70.

Edit: Actually the 120mm petty is also Masahiro. They do bolstered version ones too.

 

[MowgFace]

@blokey On another thread I read you got a Tsukiji Mas?

That come in yet?

 

[Choppin]

don’t mean to go off topic but I have a quick question… many of these gyutos have asymmetrical secondary bevels. Do you guys usually leave them as is, or convert to 50/50?

I just received a 180 Masakane that’s heavily asymmetrical. I’m thinking about at least thinning the right side a bit, essentially maintaining the secondary bevel’s angle but making it smaller.

 

[kpham12]

Masamoto HC or Masahiro VC will be my next purchase. Togiharu VC has a good reputation. A Virgin carbon round up/shoot out would make for a great thread.

https://www.globalkitchenjapan.com/...-for-left-handed-13110?variant=40621306478675
These are good for lefties. Good seller too. The site will offer you 10% off if you keep it open for a bit. It almost cancels out the shipping cost from Japan which is pretty fast too.

 

[blokey]

@blokey On another thread I read you got a Tsukiji Mas?

That come in yet?

Still enroute

 

[kpham12]

don’t mean to go off topic but I have a quick question… many of these gyutos have asymmetrical secondary bevels. Do you guys usually leave them as is, or convert to 50/50?

I just received a 180 Masakane that’s heavily asymmetrical. I’m thinking about at least thinning the right side a bit, essentially maintaining the secondary bevel’s angle but making it smaller.

View attachment 257575

This is my 300 mm vintage Masakane.

Here’s the choil shot after thinning:

It’s also very asymmetrically ground. I did like 90% thinning on the right side, just a tiny bit on the left side. Although mine started off pretty thin already. Some of these older Masakanes are only slightly thicker BTE than an Ashi Ginga.