Monosteel western handle Gyuto discussion thread

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Choppin said:
nice gang! who is the maker/brand behind the ones with purple label?

@Krouton yeah I really liked that Goko. If you like yo monosteels you won’t be disappointed. It’s a bit taller than most (52mm for a 240 IIRC), grind is really well executed and thin BTE (not just flat faces with chiseled edge like a Misono) and has the right kind of wabi sabi. The handle/scales F&F is kinda meh but not terrible. Overall one of the best monosteels out there IMO.

@blokey where did you get the 270 Masakane if I may ask?
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Thank you, I started in this hobby with some yo handled monosteels, moved away from them, and now I’m coming back around and really enjoying them. Sounds like I definitely need to check Goko out. Bernal has a couple 270 Masakanes btw
 
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Choppin said:
nice gang! who is the maker/brand behind the ones with purple label?

@Krouton yeah I really liked that Goko. If you like yo monosteels you won’t be disappointed. It’s a bit taller than most (52mm for a 240 IIRC), grind is really well executed and thin BTE (not just flat faces with chiseled edge like a Misono) and has the right kind of wabi sabi. The handle/scales F&F is kinda meh but not terrible. Overall one of the best monosteels out there IMO.

@blokey where did you get the 270 Masakane if I may ask?
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Tetogi, I think they still have some available
https://tetogi.com/products/masakan...handle-no-bolster?_pos=1&_sid=29774809d&_ss=r
 
I love the Masahiro VC series. F&F are rudimentary, but nothing you can't address within a few minutes with a few grades of sandpaper. Steel and HT are remarkable, in its behaviour close to Aogami#2. A bit of bite, no brittleness, hardness close to 62Rc. Give it a good sharpening out of the box to get rid of the factory edge, ease its excessive asymmetry and thin it a bit. I start with a SG320.
 
Choppin said:
don’t mean to go off topic but I have a quick question… many of these gyutos have asymmetrical secondary bevels. Do you guys usually leave them as is, or convert to 50/50?

I just received a 180 Masakane that’s heavily asymmetrical. I’m thinking about at least thinning the right side a bit, essentially maintaining the secondary bevel’s angle but making it smaller.

View attachment 257575
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I'd reduce/convex the shoulder between the cutting edge and blade face personally.
 
Choppin said:
don’t mean to go off topic but I have a quick question… many of these gyutos have asymmetrical secondary bevels. Do you guys usually leave them as is, or convert to 50/50?

I just received a 180 Masakane that’s heavily asymmetrical. I’m thinking about at least thinning the right side a bit, essentially maintaining the secondary bevel’s angle but making it smaller.

View attachment 257575
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Is quite extreme, indeed. Have seen similar with Suien VC. Obviously, the end user is supposed to put his own edge on it. I agree with @M1k3 and would indeed turn the right bevel into a convex one to make it flush with the right face. For the left side, much depends on the user and how much one needs compensation for steering. You may start with a small straight bevel at a much higher angle than the right one.
 
Choppin said:
@Benuser @M1k3 thank's, I think I'll do just that - convex the right side, blending the secondary bevel into the blade face, and sharpen the left side at the same angle it is right now (much more acute than the right side)
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I suggested to sharpen the left bevel at a much higher angle. The idea is to balance the friction on both sides. As the edge is off-centered to the left, friction is higher on the right side, causing clockwise steering. You may reduce it by thinning the right side and adding some friction to the left one. That's the sense of a straight bevel at a higher angle.
 
Krouton said:
All show out of stock already
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Sometimes at JNS items show OOS when they first come up to the website but then they update to "in stock". We'll see.

Yeah, they look exactly like the vintage Sakai Kikumori Swedish carbon I had... maybe same maker?

It was a 210 gyuto, 80/20 bevels, 43mm tall, smallish handle and on the flexier spectrum for mono steel gyutos. Steel was great, a joy to thin and sharpen.
 
Choppin said:
Sometimes at JNS items show OOS when they first come up to the website but then they update to "in stock". We'll see.

Yeah, they look exactly like the vintage Sakai Kikumori Swedish carbon I had... maybe same maker?

It was a 210 gyuto, 80/20 bevels, 43mm tall, smallish handle and on the flexier spectrum for mono steel gyutos. Steel was great, a joy to thin and sharpen.
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Appreciate it, I haven’t bought from them before but that makes sense
 
Choppin said:
Sometimes at JNS items show OOS when they first come up to the website but then they update to "in stock". We'll see.

Yeah, they look exactly like the vintage Sakai Kikumori Swedish carbon I had... maybe same maker?

It was a 210 gyuto, 80/20 bevels, 43mm tall, smallish handle and on the flexier spectrum for mono steel gyutos. Steel was great, a joy to thin and sharpen.
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A narrow 210? Brass rivets, Swedish Carbon? Sure it's no Misono?
 
Benuser said:
A narrow 210? Brass rivets, Swedish Carbon? Sure it's no Misono?
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I found some pics, here it is. Got it from Bernal like 2-3 years ago.

1690390638489.jpeg


1690390624040.jpeg
 
Benuser said:
I suggested to sharpen the left bevel at a much higher angle. The idea is to balance the friction on both sides. As the edge is off-centered to the left, friction is higher on the right side, causing clockwise steering. You may reduce it by thinning the right side and adding some friction to the left one. That's the sense of a straight bevel at a higher angle.
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I made a video trying to show the bevels as they are now. Looks like the right bevel was sharpened at a much lower angle than the left one. The edge looks off-centered to the left.

You are suggesting to sharpen the left bevel at an even higher angle than it is right now? Or just keep the current angle (which is already higher than the right bevel). Just trying to understand as this is my first time working on a knife with asymmetrical bevels.

PS: @blokey just let me know if we are going off topic to much and I'll make this conversation private.
 

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Choppin said:
I made a video trying to show the bevels as they are now. Looks like the right bevel was sharpened at a much lower angle than the left one. The edge looks off-centered to the left.

You are suggesting to sharpen the left bevel at an even higher angle than it is right now? Or just keep the current angle (which is already higher than the right bevel). Just trying to understand as this is my first time working on a knife with asymmetrical bevels.

PS: @blokey just let me know if we are going off topic to much and I'll make this conversation private.
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Yes, higher angle on the left side. If you were to sharpen both sides at the same angle, it would steer. If you sharpen the right side at a low angle (10-15° or so) and the left side at a higher angle (15-20° or so) you'll reduce or eliminate the steering.
 
Benuser said:
A narrow 210? Brass rivets, Swedish Carbon? Sure it's no Misono?
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Now I already linked you to the newest kkf vendor Hata Knives once lmao because I think you might like their inventory.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/hata-knives-introduction.66305/
They have vintage masamotos and Misonos occasionally.
Here’s one old school Misono but who knows if they’re from the same era as the JNS Sukehisas.
https://www.hataknives.com.au/product-page/vintage-misono-kiritsuke-210mm
I’ve heard stories from old heads about how amazing old Masamotos were (90s, 2000s) compared to the one’s currently produced. I’d be quite interested in picking up some OG Misono EOM seeing as that was the era where they were building their brand and reputation. Perhaps there are differences between then and now. But I’m not sure, just speculating
 
Choppin said:
I made a video trying to show the bevels as they are now. Looks like the right bevel was sharpened at a much lower angle than the left one. The edge looks off-centered to the left.

You are suggesting to sharpen the left bevel at an even higher angle than it is right now? Or just keep the current angle (which is already higher than the right bevel). Just trying to understand as this is my first time working on a knife with asymmetrical bevels.

PS: @blokey just let me know if we are going off topic to much and I'll make this conversation private.
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No worries, I think it is nice to have a discussion about these mono westerns.
 
Choppin said:
Have you received your Masakane yet? After receiving my 180 I'm considering a 270 to complement it...
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Eh, bit of complication this time, 270mm gyuto technically violated some knife law here so it is still stuck in the custom, I fear it might be confiscated. Usually there won’t be problem since they can’t check every package but DHL is probably too honest with their description this time.
 
blokey said:
Since Bernal is going to have 20% off sale soon, it is a chance to grab some nice monos, they have NOS Masakane, Naozumi, Kikumori Nihonkou and Morihei Hagane

I’m quite interested in Morihei Hagane, it is described as in SKS steel, a SK variant with added vanadium.
https://bernalcutlery.com/collectio...i-hisamoto-hagane-240mm-gyuto-sk-pakka-handle
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Very strong right hand bias. Convexing on the right side seems hand ground, better than a lot of the widely available SK gyutos like Sakai Kikumori. Steel is solid, a bit keener than typical SK, but not a world of difference. They grind the edge bevel at the tip wider as you can see in the pics to compensate for the tip not being extra thin I think, although it’s thin enough. Thinner BTE than a Masahiro or Sakai Kikumori OOTB, not as thin as an Ashi. Handle is on the lighter/smaller side for a slightly more forward balance.
 
Good spot regarding the steel. I'd never paid attention and always assumed it was a regular SK3-5. Makes sense as @labor of love says, Josh likes his Kanto gyutos and seems very fond of these and the sort of edge they will take and hold.

blokey said:
Since Bernal is going to have 20% off sale soon, it is a chance to grab some nice monos, they have NOS Masakane, Naozumi, Kikumori Nihonkou and Morihei Hagane

I’m quite interested in Morihei Hagane, it is described as in SKS steel, a SK variant with added vanadium.
https://bernalcutlery.com/collectio...i-hisamoto-hagane-240mm-gyuto-sk-pakka-handle
Click to expand...
 
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Lol maybe there should be a western handle monosteel Japanese gyuto thread for old stock stuff like this haha. Anyway about the sukehisa, it's a good steel for their regular line, slightly keener and better and harder than masakane but still similar. I don't tend to find a crazy difference between steel lines for the same maker but idk. Like tf white vs aogami super, still similar to me. Or goko SK vs white. Or Ashi white and stainless can kinda feel similar ish. I've been meaning to try the sukehisa swedish, though I've seen a couple. They did do OEM stuff too, so maybe old stock will come up under other names
 
refcast said:
Lol maybe there should be a western handle monosteel Japanese gyuto thread for old stock stuff like this haha. Anyway about the sukehisa, it's a good steel for their regular line, slightly keener and better and harder than masakane but still similar. I don't tend to find a crazy difference between steel lines for the same maker but idk. Like tf white vs aogami super, still similar to me. Or goko SK vs white. Or Ashi white and stainless can kinda feel similar ish. I've been meaning to try the sukehisa swedish, though I've seen a couple. They did do OEM stuff too, so maybe old stock will come up under other names
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I bought one, if you are interested I can lend it to you after I’m back in US
 
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