Hi, I've been seeing a lot of KKFers recommending Munetoshi lately. I have a Wakui 210 nashiji W2 gyuto. Would a W2 Munetoshi gyuto be so similar to the Wakui as to make it a redundant addition to my small knife rack? Thanks for your thoughts.
Munetoshi redundant???
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I have a few wakuis too. Don’t have direct experience with the munetoshi gyuto, I have the petty (which is pretty similar to a 180 wakui I have) but the knife I got that was clearly an upgrade to my wakui was a gengetsu. I’d look to that or a yoshikane as a jump, others I’m sure willl disagree.
Never used a Wakui but have used a Yoshikane. If the Wakui is as, or near as, flat as a Yoshikane (something I've read) then the Munetoshi will be quite different.
But it depends on how you define redundant. I mean, technically, anything more than one knife that works well and you like becomes redundant.
But it depends on how you define redundant. I mean, technically, anything more than one knife that works well and you like becomes redundant.
Giovanny Torres
Well-Known Member
Wakui is not as flat as a yoshikane.
I own a Konosuke ysm and a Wakui damascus.
You can see similarities but they are different enough to warrant keeping both.
I own a Konosuke ysm and a Wakui damascus.
You can see similarities but they are different enough to warrant keeping both.
tostadas
Hobbyist / Craftsman
I've had I think 2 or 3 munetoshi, but probably close to 10 wakui in various iterations. They share similarities but you won't mistake one for another. First off, wakui profile is my favorite profile of all knives I've used. It's nothing like Yoshikane (I hate Yoshikane profile). Munetoshi profile is a little flatter than wakui, but not too far off.
Biggest difference is in the grind. Munetoshi grinds tend to be thicker than most wakui. I'd consider them to be medium/thick as you go up the blade. Fairly low shinogi with a basic concave off a big wheel. Wakui grinds vary from thin/medium to medium. They are much cleaner grinds than munetoshi with fewer low spots.
Both have strong taper, but I find munetoshi to be more extreme at the handle, and also less thin at the very tip.
Fit and finish is another big difference. Wakui always tend to have eased spine/choil with generally clean handle installs also. Munetoshi has no spine or choil treatment.
In my opinion, wakui is just better. Munetoshi is fun to try if you have not already though. Good bang for buck for sure.
Biggest difference is in the grind. Munetoshi grinds tend to be thicker than most wakui. I'd consider them to be medium/thick as you go up the blade. Fairly low shinogi with a basic concave off a big wheel. Wakui grinds vary from thin/medium to medium. They are much cleaner grinds than munetoshi with fewer low spots.
Both have strong taper, but I find munetoshi to be more extreme at the handle, and also less thin at the very tip.
Fit and finish is another big difference. Wakui always tend to have eased spine/choil with generally clean handle installs also. Munetoshi has no spine or choil treatment.
In my opinion, wakui is just better. Munetoshi is fun to try if you have not already though. Good bang for buck for sure.
Munetoshi has one of the nicest heat treats of White 2 (although Wakui is great too) and is pretty cheap, you can get a 210 mm gyuto for like 125 euros plus shipping at Cleancut.
Super tough, more of a “beater knife” than Wakui. And you can play around with the wide bevels a lot, practice thinning and polishing and not really worry about messing up a “nice” finish. Fit and finish is not going to be as good as Wakui obviously and the grinds vary a bit more, some are a little more hollow, some are closer to flat bevels with some low spots while Wakui is known for consistency.
Buy, try, sell if it doesn’t click with you. Continue the cycle.
Super tough, more of a “beater knife” than Wakui. And you can play around with the wide bevels a lot, practice thinning and polishing and not really worry about messing up a “nice” finish. Fit and finish is not going to be as good as Wakui obviously and the grinds vary a bit more, some are a little more hollow, some are closer to flat bevels with some low spots while Wakui is known for consistency.
Buy, try, sell if it doesn’t click with you. Continue the cycle.
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I haven’t owned a munetoshi in the past 4-5 years but I’ve owned a few. I’m sorta surprised by the enthusiasm for munetoshi lately.
The heat treat is really nice and the price is low but that’s about it. Didn’t enjoy how they cut and the KU starts flaking off almost immediately. Wakuis IMO cut so much better.
The 2 knives aren’t redundant at all but if I wanted a budget carbon gyuto I’d try and find something from tosa region over a mune like this
https://www.toshoknifearts.com/en-us/collections/hatsukokoro-inazuma/products/hkka-ae185-fa240
The heat treat is really nice and the price is low but that’s about it. Didn’t enjoy how they cut and the KU starts flaking off almost immediately. Wakuis IMO cut so much better.
The 2 knives aren’t redundant at all but if I wanted a budget carbon gyuto I’d try and find something from tosa region over a mune like this
https://www.toshoknifearts.com/en-us/collections/hatsukokoro-inazuma/products/hkka-ae185-fa240
Once you have a gyuto you like in a practical size, they're all redundant... not that that stops us here!
I personally wouldn't feel like a Munetoshi in the same length as your Wakui would give you a lot of value as a second gyuto, unless you want an affordable ironclad as a project knife (and even then I'd consider a Tosa or similar aogami blade, but I'm not a big fan of shiro for most purposes). Unless you know a 210 is your sweet spot, I'd try a bigger (or smaller) knife in a different steel.
I personally wouldn't feel like a Munetoshi in the same length as your Wakui would give you a lot of value as a second gyuto, unless you want an affordable ironclad as a project knife (and even then I'd consider a Tosa or similar aogami blade, but I'm not a big fan of shiro for most purposes). Unless you know a 210 is your sweet spot, I'd try a bigger (or smaller) knife in a different steel.
Don´t have experience with Munetoshi but the Wakui V2 240mm I got recently costs about the same as the 240mm Munetoshi and it is pretty much flawless.
With a long wide bevel, thin behind the edge, consistent grind and finish, perfect balance, really nice handle and kurouchi finish, polished edge...
Reading about the Munetoshis and looking at choil shots I´d say there is only few reasons to go for Munetoshi:
You want a a little more weight and forward balance.
You want to try a different flavour of white steel.
You are looking for a beater knife and don´t mind it wedging a little.
You are good at thinning and working on knives and don´t mind/enjoy investing the time (although only the best will be able to get it to the level of a Wakui as it seems to me)
That said, I have been looking long and hard at them too as the weight looks just about right for me but I don´t think the gyutos are a way "forward". The kiritsukes, butcher and sujihiki look tempting though and I actually ordered the cool petty/mini gyuto during the xmas sale at JNS...
With a long wide bevel, thin behind the edge, consistent grind and finish, perfect balance, really nice handle and kurouchi finish, polished edge...
Reading about the Munetoshis and looking at choil shots I´d say there is only few reasons to go for Munetoshi:
You want a a little more weight and forward balance.
You want to try a different flavour of white steel.
You are looking for a beater knife and don´t mind it wedging a little.
You are good at thinning and working on knives and don´t mind/enjoy investing the time (although only the best will be able to get it to the level of a Wakui as it seems to me)
That said, I have been looking long and hard at them too as the weight looks just about right for me but I don´t think the gyutos are a way "forward". The kiritsukes, butcher and sujihiki look tempting though and I actually ordered the cool petty/mini gyuto during the xmas sale at JNS...
Can only compare to my Kochi ironclad, which is suspected to be made by Wakui, but the Munetoshi is actually a more curved profile in my case. I defer to @tostadas expertise on general profiles though, I may just have a curvy Munetoshi.
Kochi V2 ironclads are quite thin behind the edge whereas the Munetoshi looks thicc but cuts really nicely. Kochi is thinner throughout with a very thin tip and the weight makes it feel like a 210, it's nimble and comfortable. The
Munetoshi tip isn't quite so thin but still performs very well on delicate tasks, it's a heavier knife that definitely makes you feel like you have a 240 though it's not imbalanced. Feels pretty nimble next to my Mazaki 240.
They feel different enough for me to be happy I purchased both/keep both.
Kochi 240 profile
Munetoshi 240 profile
Kochi V2 ironclads are quite thin behind the edge whereas the Munetoshi looks thicc but cuts really nicely. Kochi is thinner throughout with a very thin tip and the weight makes it feel like a 210, it's nimble and comfortable. The
Munetoshi tip isn't quite so thin but still performs very well on delicate tasks, it's a heavier knife that definitely makes you feel like you have a 240 though it's not imbalanced. Feels pretty nimble next to my Mazaki 240.
They feel different enough for me to be happy I purchased both/keep both.
Kochi 240 profile
Munetoshi 240 profile
tostadas
Hobbyist / Craftsman
It could very well be variation in the different Munetoshis. The Munetoshi I've had were relatively flat. I havent come up with a good way of objectively measuring and tracking curvature. However, in terms of tip height, my Munetoshi gyutos have been around 15mm rise from flat, compared to around 20mm for a typical wakui. I would say that Wakui profiles are pretty consistent though.
Here's an old pic I found.
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I don't have any Wakui, but, from pictures, they look quite a bit more refined than Mune. My 240 Mune has a curvy profile like the Donkey's. I love it as an affordable knife that I can dial in how I like. But it does seem pretty similar in terms of weight and style to Wakui.
McMan
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Having owned a few of both too, I agree with @tostadas.
Frankly, I never got what all the hype was about with Munetoshi. IMO there are better values out there, or better performers at the same price point. The best Munetoshi I had was a petty. I've been disappointed with the consistency of the grind on the gyutos. The hype around Munetoshi made sense when they just came out and were really inexpensive. Now that they cost a bit more, I think there's some competition.
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tostadas
Hobbyist / Craftsman
If you haven't had a Munetoshi butcher, I recommend trying one. It's a whole different beast than the gyutos. I bought mine intending to catch-and-release after testing it out. It's been over a year and a half now and I have no plans of letting it go any time soon. It takes a mean edge that doesnt need babying. It's fun to see guests' reactions after they ask for a "short knife", and it can also double as a shank if you're in a pinch.
If you want to try a Mune, maybe a 165 petty or 210 suji? Very useful knives and both seem to be well loved here, specially the petty.
I was eyeing a 210 Mune suji for so long, but I ended up snagging a secondhand Itinomonn 210 V2 petty instead. Actually, I think it’s like fourth or fifth-hand, but I don’t mind.
This is from 2018, but could be helpful…
Maybe it's just the one I got but I love my Munetoshi.
Yeah it was a little rough on the spine and choil but that took about five minutes to correct. Softened the shoulders a touch but I generally always do. KU finish has held up great. Dig the profile.
For less than $200 I'm very pleased.
Yeah it was a little rough on the spine and choil but that took about five minutes to correct. Softened the shoulders a touch but I generally always do. KU finish has held up great. Dig the profile.
For less than $200 I'm very pleased.
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The spine and choil on mine were fine. Profile is a little curvier than ideal, and the bevels needed work. But it's such a great value. I can see opting for Wakui. His prices are great, too. But I'm hard pressed to think of too many others.
I think of Munetoshi and Moritaka as similar. Fantastic value, great heat treat. Knives that get better with use, where you need to dial them in yourself.
I think of Munetoshi and Moritaka as similar. Fantastic value, great heat treat. Knives that get better with use, where you need to dial them in yourself.
IME sometime around 2019 the profile changed to way more belly.
naptight
Well-Known Member
I'm new here so I'm not sure if it's appropriate to revive an old thread or semi-thread jack.
I'm also newer to Japanese knives. I'm having a ton of fun buying budget knives with different steels to try out.
This thred got me interested in Wakui, as I've been looking for a budget white steel option.
But, I'm curious how something like the Wakui V2 gyuto might compare to the shindo blue #2 gyuto. I've got a Shindo bunka and it's by far the thinnest and most fun to use knife I've tried so far. So I would assume the Shindo gyuto would be a full on laser and the Wakui would be more of a medium grind with laser like thinness bte?
I'm also newer to Japanese knives. I'm having a ton of fun buying budget knives with different steels to try out.
This thred got me interested in Wakui, as I've been looking for a budget white steel option.
But, I'm curious how something like the Wakui V2 gyuto might compare to the shindo blue #2 gyuto. I've got a Shindo bunka and it's by far the thinnest and most fun to use knife I've tried so far. So I would assume the Shindo gyuto would be a full on laser and the Wakui would be more of a medium grind with laser like thinness bte?
tostadas
Hobbyist / Craftsman
Not similar. Shindo is insane thin grind, but very thick spine at handle and crazy taper. In contrast, the wakui in general is more conservative in both grind and taper.
naptight
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I guess that's what makes the Shindo so fun to use. So, if I'm not having any issues with chipping on the Shindo and I'm not worried about being in a production environment or someone inappropriately handling the knife, I probably shouldn't bother with something like the Wakui or even Munetoshi?
tostadas
Hobbyist / Craftsman
If your goal is to simply be content with the great knives you have and not obtain more, you're asking the wrong people for support.
naptight
Well-Known Member
Lol. I've gathered as much. But, no that's not the goal. I want to have as much fun using prepping/cooking as I can. Which of course means buying lots of tools. But, I'd like to avoid buying tools, like knives, that I don't find as fun as the ones I already have.
I don't know. My Munetoshi is definitely a keeper. Wakui is pretty well regarded also. Me thinks you should buy them both and see if you like them also.
My Munetoshi is the only 210 gyuto I have left and it just seems to hang around. 
