New sujihiki

[JPAU]

Hi experts of KKF! Looking for my first sujihiki after some sage advice from KKF earlier in the year. I have some longer gyutos (270mm - 300mm) so I’d be looking for something distinguishable in performance (presumably different profile, low height to reduce drag etc.).

LOCATION
What country are you in?
Australia

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Sujihiki >210mm

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Prefer wa handle but open minded

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
~270mm but negotiable

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No - prefer carbon and iron clad

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$300USD-$350USD

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing and portioning raw and cooked proteins, mass meal prep for the week

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
None

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push cutting for chopping and diving, pull cutting for slicing

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics


Comfort


Ease of Use and Care


Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?

Excellent geometry and performance paramount over ease of care and edge retention (given that it will not see much hard board contact). Aesthetics are a bonus. Prefer migaki but not wedded to it.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
Asahi rubber

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
No

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?
Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
No

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
Current front runners, which are intentionally all different so that I have something worth distinguishing to compare between them, are:

1. Takada no Hamono (either second hand if I am lucky, or will order one and wait a year or so);
2. Mazaki;
3. Ashi or Gesshin Ginga

Open to alternative suggestions. Just to preempt one suggestions, I have eliminated Tetsujin because I already have some Tetsujin steel and want to try something new for the novelty.

Thanks for looking!

 

[Shein]

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/mazaki-270-w2-sujihiki.62992/

 

[Vertigo]

You don't sharpen but you'd like to learn to sharpen, but you don't want to buy sharpening products?

That aside, I can only speak to the Gesshin Ginga white #2 suji: fan-freaking-tastic slicer, love at first cut, can easily slice wafer thin even at that length, and a freshly sharpened edge on Thursday lasted me through 80# of brined pork loin, 50# of roast turkey, and 60# of pineapple glazed ham by Sunday night before giving up the ghost. Obviously the pineapple ham did the most damage and that's a lot of volume, but the steel is definitely some of the more delicate Shiro I've worked with and may not be the best choice if you aren't sharpening your knives on the regular.

 

[Qapla']

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing and portioning raw and cooked proteins, mass meal prep for the week

How would a sujihiki be a better choice than your 270mm gyuto for mass meal prep?

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$300USD-$350USD

I will note that 350 USD ~= 537 AUD.

 

[JPAU]

You don't sharpen but you'd like to learn to sharpen, but you don't want to buy sharpening products?

That aside, I can only speak to the Gesshin Ginga white #2 suji: fan-freaking-tastic slicer, love at first cut, can easily slice wafer thin even at that length, and a freshly sharpened edge on Thursday lasted me through 80# of brined pork loin, 50# of roast turkey, and 60# of pineapple glazed ham by Sunday night before giving up the ghost. Obviously the pineapple ham did the most damage and that's a lot of volume, but the steel is definitely some of the more delicate Shiro I've worked with and may not be the best choice if you aren't sharpening your knives on the regular.

Thanks for the thoughts on the ginga. That is very helpful. Im a home cook and would mostly use it for much smaller quantities than you are, but I take the point. Is there a substantial difference between Ashi, Gessin and hitohira / Ashi (are some of them finished to a higher level etc?)?

As for the ostensible inconsistency, I don’t really understand the relevance of the ‘buy sharpening equipment’ question in the questionnaire unless it relates to this post. I plan to learn to sharpen in the future but do not wish to buy sharpening equipment now, and fail to see its relevance to this request for sujihiki suggestions anyway.

 

[JPAU]

How would a sujihiki be a better choice than your 270mm gyuto for mass meal prep?


I will note that 350 USD ~= 537 AUD.

The advice that I’ve received, including in KKF, is that the larger surface area of a 55mm-60mm heel height knife increases drag when slicing proteins. That makes sense to me. Presumably if that was not the case, and sujihikis had no benefit over gyutos of a similar length, sujihikis (which are generally less versatile) wouldn’t exist.

Also, re your conversion - does that imply that it’s not enough for what I am after?

 

[JPAU]

Th

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/mazaki-270-w2-sujihiki.62992/

Thanks. I responded to the post earlier today to see if it is available.

Can I take your linking it as an endorsement?

 

[Qapla']

The advice that I’ve received, including in KKF, is that the larger surface area of a 55mm-60mm heel height knife increases drag when slicing proteins. That makes sense to me. Presumably if that was not the case, and sujihikis had no benefit over gyutos of a similar length, sujihikis (which are generally less versatile) wouldn’t exist.

Also, re your conversion - does that imply that it’s not enough for what I am after?

Nope, no implication of anything; just a possible note for anyone who might point to any Aus-based vendors (since you are based in Australia).

 

[JPAU]

Nope, no implication of anything; just a possible note for anyone who might point to any Aus-based vendors (since you are based in Australia).

Thanks, indeed.

 

[rickbern]

You don't sharpen but you'd like to learn to sharpen, but you don't want to buy sharpening products?

That aside, I can only speak to the Gesshin Ginga white #2 suji: fan-freaking-tastic slicer, love at first cut, can easily slice wafer thin even at that length, and a freshly sharpened edge on Thursday lasted me through 80# of brined pork loin, 50# of roast turkey, and 60# of pineapple glazed ham by Sunday night before giving up the ghost. Obviously the pineapple ham did the most damage and that's a lot of volume, but the steel is definitely some of the more delicate Shiro I've worked with and may not be the best choice if you aren't sharpening your knives on the regular.

I’m with you, waterstones are much more useful than sujis.

 

[romanjanos]

K&S has the best deals on Yoshikane knives.
I think they are awesome and definitely worth trying.

https://www.knivesandstones.com.au/...RadX0qYiRvPdYQcx6UMT7tC5qSm4KZ7RoC-m0QAvD_BwE

 

[Vertigo]

The advice that I’ve received, including in KKF, is that the larger surface area of a 55mm-60mm heel height knife increases drag when slicing proteins. That makes sense to me. Presumably if that was not the case, and sujihikis had no benefit over gyutos of a similar length, sujihikis (which are generally less versatile) wouldn’t exist.

This is gonna be a real hot take around these parts but... as a theoretical minimalist (that is to say, I'm a minimalist at heart but just can't stop myself from buying more than I need anyways), I firmly believe that a narrowish 240-270 gyuto with a decent flat stretch on the edge can do 90% of everything you'll ever need a kitchen knife to do, and makes most every other knife redundant. There are outliers and more specific knives that are better for certain tasks, but if you have your techniques down, you're buying convenience, not necessity.

I have *absolutely* no need for a 290mm long sujihiki when I own a 283mm long KS gyuto. It's just convenient to have a dedicated "hot protein" knife in my bag so I gotta sharpen a little less.

 

[False_Cast]

As for the ostensible inconsistency, I don’t really understand the relevance of the ‘buy sharpening equipment’ question in the questionnaire unless it relates to this post. I plan to learn to sharpen in the future but do not wish to buy sharpening equipment now, and fail to see its relevance to this request for sujihiki suggestions anyway.

You must believe that it’s an accident that the sharpening info question is on the questionnaire.

Recommendation: buy stones and learn how to maintain your equipment before buying specialty equipment you’re not set up to take care of.

Sujihiki recommendation:
- Masahiro VC, incredible value and what I’ve come to love after using much more expensive and “touted” sujis, including a couple of which you’re bumping old classifieds threads trying to find (they’re sold, by the way)
- Ashi Ginga if you have to have a wa handle; they run a few mm short in wa

 

[porcinecephalic]

Fortunately, you have plenty of solid options. Unfortunately, you will have to make a choice from among those options, and you will have to live with that chosen sujihiki as your only slicer forever. Okay, that last part is an exaggeration.

Anyway, I reckon this Wakui suji would work pretty well. So would the options suggested above. And if you are willing to watch BST for a week or three, I bet you will see some terrific bargains. If $350 is your upper limit, I think your best move would be to spend around $250 on the suji, and then invest the remainder in a couple of decent whetstones.

 

[aporigine]

Seen on a neighboring thread … seems like a value proposition to me.

https://carbonknifeco.com/products/...DXQzmqQzFU4bC1SnvjEoMBtExGHcluvNrHfn7n5Wun5dw

 

[rickbern]

Seen on a neighboring thread … seems like a value proposition to me.

https://carbonknifeco.com/products/...DXQzmqQzFU4bC1SnvjEoMBtExGHcluvNrHfn7n5Wun5dw

Good idea but the op is in Oz. You can probably find a fujiwara fkm aus 8 suji down there. That’s the one I have and for my purposes it’s all I ever need.

@Vertigo and @falsecast have been giving you good advice. Save some money, use it to buy a couple or three stones, learn to sharpen.

 

[aporigine]

Good idea but the op is in Oz. You can probably find a fujiwara fkm aus 8 suji down there. That’s the one I have and for my purposes it’s all I ever need.

@Vertigo and @falsecast have been giving you good advice. Save some money, use it to buy a couple or three stones, learn to sharpen.

Just looked up shipping rates to Aus. Ouch.