Techniques Pancetta/Guanciale

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The Yana seems to work....

this is what you get when the general public is scared of fat...pork belly becomes this..

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FWIW for me when slicing cured meats, especially when I get harder, the stiffer the knife the better. The more flex, the more of a struggle it becomes. But.... I've always just cut lardons and strips, never actually thin slices. The few times I tried that, regardless of what knife I used, it just felt like an accident waiting to happen.
 
Jovidah said:
You clearly didn't think things through when designing your new house. Missed opportunity! You could have had a meat-cave!
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I really tried getting to build a cellar, but that was a no go for the builder...guess I'll have to make up for that by buying a Tuna sword to cut my home made pancetta.
I may venture into other cured meats, so when it gets to the stage @Michi is at I'll reconsider a Berkel.
'Honey, we rally need this, just see how much we'll save on home made charcuterie when comparing it to high end prices these days'

To her defense, usually a 'I want this is enough' if there is a reasonable way to accomodate it.
 
sumting else; the pancetta seems to pick up more flavor now it's exposed to the regular environment...nice!
 
I'm not sure the 'earns itself back' argument still holds when I look at the pricetag of the Berkels... :D
 
I broke down and bought a 10" Beswood slicer a few weeks ago. Us hillbilly's from the states like our jerky and bacon don't ya know? Hand slicing was just getting too tedious. It's not a commercial grade unit, didn't break the bank either but operates pretty smooth, goes through frozen meat without issue and it's quite enough I can have a conversation while operating it. It's not quite big enough to do a full pork belly is my only complaint, shorter bacon. I should have done it years ago.
 
MarcelNL said:
I may venture into other cured meats,
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Do it. It is super fun and plentfuly tasty.

Other quick and nice things to try are the duck breast, and the pork fillet (lonzino)

And lardo as well. Delicious, and it can be done in a tupperware in the fridge.
 
MarcelNL said:
nice! What process did you use ?(regular aging or the hybrid aging bag in freezer I used)
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One week in a bag in the fridge with spices and Prague Powder. Two weeks aged on a rack in my basement. Temp and humid were about 64F 60% humidity. Could have left it a little longer, but it tastes good!
 
Figured I would chime in here as I’ve been following this thread and love me some cured meats. For what it’s worth I’ve raised hogs and helped folks do on farm slaughters and butchering (13 pigs in one day was the most). I learned everything I know from Farmstead Meatsmith in the old world style (look him up if you’re interested, super cool 3 day intensive courses). In short curing salt is not necessary imo and has been done that way for longer than it has been done with it. It really boils down to meat quality, technique and time of year. Where I live (montana) the timing of a slaughter lines up with the time of year when it’s about perfect for hanging meat to cure properly (about now in the fall). This is how it been done for many many years all around the world out of necessity. The English don’t have as strict standards compared to the USA when it comes to curing meat and I wanted give this book recommendation based on my experiences. Simple and concise techniques for curing with just salt.

https://strataportland.com/products/the-river-cottage-curing-and-smoking-handbook
 
Danejah said:
In short curing salt is not necessary imo and has been done that way for longer than it has been done with it.
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And a lot more people have been dying from botulism without curing salt than with it.

Not everything our grandparents did was better.
 
Michi said:
And a lot more people have been dying from botulism without curing salt than with it.

Not everything our grandparents did was better.
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While botulism is a risk that has to be managed, that doesn't mean it's impossible.
The best example is prosciutto di parma. It's been exclusively made without curing salt for decades.
The meat industry is mostly resistant to giving it up because using curing salt is easier, cheaper and faster, not because it can't be done.

Although admittedly in a home environment I would be very hesitant to experiment without curing salt simply because you really need to understand and be able to properly control the process in a way that is hard to achieve for a simple home amateur.
 
without a properly controlled meat aging fridge I'm not going to risk curing meat without curing salt.
 
Sounds like a perfect justification for the acquisition to me...
 
Jovidah said:
While botulism is a risk that has to be managed, that doesn't mean it's impossible.
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Sure, it's possible. In fact, you can probably also make cured and smoked meat products without any curing salt, as well as salami. The chances of actually getting botulism are small. But they are not zero.
Jovidah said:
Although admittedly in a home environment I would be very hesitant to experiment without curing salt simply because you really need to understand and be able to properly control the process in a way that is hard to achieve for a simple home amateur.
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Right. Getting everything just right, including the proper sanitary conditions is not something I would try at home.

Fact is that botulism was fairly common until we started using curing salts. Since then, there have been very few cases. Why go back where we came from?

At any rate, recommending that someone should omit curing salt is, in my opinion, irresponsible. Without knowing anything about the person's skill level, hygienic conditions, or how their kitchen and cooling are set up, it is doubly irresponsible.

If I decide to roll the dice for myself, fine, that's my business. Encouraging other people to do the same is not fine. It is someone else who will die if something goes wrong, without consequences for the person who recommended that course of action.

Anyone feel like playing a few rounds of Russian roulette? Yes? Good! I'll provide the gun and bullet. Here you go the two of you, have fun!
 
Michi said:
Sure, it's possible. In fact, you can probably also make cured and smoked meat products without any curing salt, as well as salami. The chances of actually getting botulism are small. But they are not zero.

Right. Getting everything just right, including the proper sanitary conditions is not something I would try at home.

Fact is that botulism was fairly common until we started using curing salts. Since then, there have been very few cases. Why go back where we came from?

At any rate, recommending that someone should omit curing salt is, in my opinion, irresponsible. Without knowing anything about the person's skill level, hygienic conditions, or how their kitchen and cooling are set up, it is doubly irresponsible.

If I decide to roll the dice for myself, fine, that's my business. Encouraging other people to do the same is not fine. It is someone else who will die if something goes wrong, without consequences for the person who recommended that course of action.

Anyone feel like playing a few rounds of Russian roulette? Yes? Good! I'll provide the gun and bullet. Here you go the two of you, have fun!
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These are all valid arguments for home production where your control over the process is limited, and I agree that I'd be extremely reluctant to omit curing sounds when just drying meat in your garage. You really need to know what you're doing and be able to properly control the process if you want to consider it. Full stop.

In industrial production however this doesn't apply and are just a bad excuse because manufacturers prefer cheap and fast. Find me all the botulism cases resulting from parmaham... they don't exist, and they've been doing it without curing salt for a few decades. In industrial production we have the means to do it safe. We also have plenty of research indicating that curing salts are not safe. But it's cheaper and faster to use them so as long as it's legal to do so the majority of manufacturers will do so.
 
No problem with Parma ham. But that doesn’t mean this works for other things. Any sausage that hangs for a few hours and then goes into a smoker for a few hours is a ticking bomb without curing salt.

As to the safety of nitrite, I don’t believe there is any consensus, other than that frying cured sausage may present a cancer risk. Personally, I don’t fry cured sausages (other than the occasional piece of bacon). And I’d rather die of cancer in twenty years (or not die of cancer at all) than die of botulism sometime next year.
 
All I was simply doing was sharing my experiences and opinions and offering up a really interesting book that I feel would be a great resource for someone interested in curing meat with or without curing salt. It’s also my opinion that I don’t feel I would liken salting and curing a whole muscle (using the proper technique) to Russian roulette. Canning foods is another possible source of botulism and curing salt is not used, rather proper techniques and understanding how ph plays a roll in botulism.sausages are not as simple but understanding ph and fermentation and understanding the techniques to get you where you need to be greatly reduce the chances. So it’s my opinion that simple understanding of the techniques is going to go a long way from preventing botulism. But yes please use curing salt at all times.
 
Danejah said:
All I was simply doing was sharing my experiences and opinions and offering up a really interesting book that I feel would be a great resource for someone interested in curing meat with or without curing salt. It’s also my opinion that I don’t feel I would liken salting and curing a whole muscle (using the proper technique) to Russian roulette.
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I'm not sure that you made it as clear as that:
Danejah said:
In short curing salt is not necessary imo and has been done that way for longer than it has been done with it.
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I agree that, for whole muscles, nitrite is optional, provided you have a clean meat surface without cuts or loose bits, and things were done hygienically. Anything that is ground and kept under anaerobic conditions for any length of time is not safe without nitrite. (The inside of a sausage is an anaerobic environment, as is a smoker, because the smoke displaces pretty much all the oxygen, and it is nowhere near hot enough to kill the bacteria with heat.)
Danejah said:
Canning foods is another possible source of botulism and curing salt is not used, rather proper techniques and understanding how ph plays a roll in botulism.
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For canning, heat is used to kill off any bacteria. This does not work by mere boiling, hence the need for a canning high-pressure cooker. (A normal pressure cooker won't do the job, it does not get hot enough.)

The majority of botulism cases these days is caused by people making their own pickled vegetables preserved in oil. That is a really high-risk way to preserve food because the oil creates an anaerobic environment and botulism bacteria are pretty much everywhere, particularly on vegetables.
 
Michi said:
I'm not sure that you made it as clear as that:

I agree that, for whole muscles, nitrite is optional, provided you have a clean meat surface without cuts or loose bits, and things were done hygienically. Anything that is ground and kept under anaerobic conditions for any length of time is not safe without nitrite. (The inside of a sausage is an anaerobic environment, as is a smoker, because the smoke displaces pretty much all the oxygen, and it is nowhere near hot enough to kill the bacteria with heat.)

For canning, heat is used to kill off any bacteria. This does not work by mere boiling, hence the need for a canning high-pressure cooker. (A normal pressure cooker won't do the job, it does not get hot enough.)

The majority of botulism cases these days is caused by people making their own pickled vegetables preserved in oil. That is a really high-risk way to preserve food because the oil creates an anaerobic environment and botulism bacteria are pretty much everywhere, particularly on vegetables.
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Thank you for enlightening me
 
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