Passaround: Kippington Chevron Hook Grind

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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labor of love said:
New business model: send Kipp a video demo of how you hold a knife and cut food. He in turn makes the perfect knife to suit your tastes.
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By watching someone in action I can tell what would work for the user in regards to the following: edge profile, spine angle, weight distribution, handle shape and size, machi/neck size, heel height, grind bias, edge thickness... there's probably more, that's just off the top of my head.

I've asked a few customers to do it. Precisely zero have actually gone ahead and done it.
I mention it here:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...ts-on-gyuto-profiles.38393/page-3#post-570783Oh well, their loss.

juice said:
Is that an acid emoji?
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captaincaed said:
what these videos don’t really capture and what I wish I had said was just how nice it makes prep overall. It’s definitely not perfect in terms of food release. But it’s really damn good. The overall thought and execution are really there.

I see this as a single bevel Western kitchen prep knife. It seems like a purpose built tool in the same way that the Japanese single bevel knives are purpose built for specific fish tasks and vegetable tasks. I think if I had more time to get to know this knife and learn how to use it better the performance would look even better. Overall I’m just impressed.



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Nice to see relaxed, not frantic, knife skills.
 
Kippington said:
By watching someone in action I can tell what would work for the user in regards to the following: edge profile, spine angle, weight distribution, handle shape and size, machi/neck size, heel height, grind bias, edge thickness... there's probably more, that's just off the top of my head.

I've asked a few customers to do it. Precisely zero have actually gone ahead and done it.
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OK I'll bite, what would you recommend based on what you saw?
 
captaincaed said:
OK I'll bite, what would you recommend based on what you saw?
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The following all assumes you don't want to change your cutting style, All the changes would be very small/subtle:
  • Your grip is light, relaxed and varied: You want a longer neck length than the passaround
  • You don't lock your wrist as much as some people: No taller heel height than the passaround
  • You have a good pull stroke, hardly any rock: Less belly, more flat like a santoku
  • The height between your elbows and the board is longer than most: Angle spine down, and too short a heel height would be a detriment
  • Knowing the balance of the passaround, you seem to do well with neutral-to-tip balanced knives. Lightweight handle
  • You use the whole distance along the edge. The areas you use change with the grip: The length seems good
I would end up shifting the profile slightly towards the CJA style shape for you.
 
Kippington said:
The following all assumes you don't want to change your cutting style, All the changes would be very small/subtle:
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OK that's pretty dang cool.

First, let me say how embarrassed I am that I'm officially a santoku guy.

You're dead on with the light grip, liking a slightly longer neck. I like an easy push or pull cut that lets the knife do the work. At home, I guess I have the luxury of adapting style to the knife, so I rock with a couple that are suited to it. But generally not as much. Forward balance is good, but not too much. But dead neutral feels too light for me. I like the length for big prep, but I'll admit I grab a 225 most days. I honestly prefer your profile with a little belly to CJA. The grind too, with or without the hook. his knife didn't jive with me, yours really did.

The knives I grab most often are a Sukenari 260 for big prep day, an HVB 250 for normal days and a stainless Mac 210 when I'm lazy or traveling. They all have a tip dead center of the profile. I have one with a more triangular profile (higher tip relative to spine) that always seems to thud a bit when I use it. When I get in the groove it's a great knife tho.

I've always wanted to try this one.

507FA4F8-47E4-4142-83DD-7DF742DB75C7.jpeg

What about the heel height comments? Seems like those went both ways.

So now, who's my ideal girl (or boy)?
 

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I actually looked at that mirrored picture and thought, "I don't remember making that..."

- They all have a tip dead center of the profile​
​
Ah, well that matters less than you think! Rambling thoughts on gyuto profiles
Kippington said:
xw2ICYf.png

I'd like to point out that even though the two above have exactly the same flat-spot and belly curve (meaning they would behave quite similarly), they appear totally different if described by tip height alone.
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- I have one with a more triangular profile (higher tip relative to spine) that always seems to thud a bit when I use it​

Yeah, but don't forget the thud is something that any knife can have. Very annoying for me, but some people apparently like it.
I can tell that you'd really like a knife with a sori - which is when the spine curves up towards the tip. You'd get more weight at the tip-end if you have a sori, even with a crazy thin taper. Taper helps make the tip thinner (you seemed to like it on the passaround) but it goes against your preference in balance.

RydWr1b.png

- What about the heel height comments? Seems like those went both ways​

I wouldn't go much higher because you'd need more of a locked wrist, but height is still needed due to the distance between your elbow and the height of the board. Basically the heel height of the passaround is good for you, I wouldn't go much taller or shorter

- So now, who's my ideal girl (or boy)?​
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Kippington said:
The following all assumes you don't want to change your cutting style, All the changes would be very small/subtle:
  • Your grip is light, relaxed and varied: You want a longer neck length than the passaround
  • You don't lock your wrist as much as some people: No taller heel height than the passaround
  • You have a good pull stroke, hardly any rock: Less belly, more flat like a santoku
  • The height between your elbows and the board is longer than most: Angle spine down, and too short a heel height would be a detriment
  • Knowing the balance of the passaround, you seem to do well with neutral-to-tip balanced knives. Lightweight handle
  • You use the whole distance along the edge. The areas you use change with the grip: The length seems good
I would end up shifting the profile slightly towards the CJA style shape for you.
Click to expand...

I keep looking at this thread, saying to myself I want one of these knives (not that as a home cook I every prep enough that I really need it), but after seeing that, I want Kippington to make me a knife just to get the analysis.
 
esoo said:
I keep looking at this thread, saying to myself I want one of these knives (not that as a home cook I every prep enough that I really need it), but after seeing that, I want Kippington to make me a knife just to get the analysis.
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When I do this kind of analysis, it brings up the question - Do I make a knife for the customers existing skills, or do I make a better one for them to develop into...
I'm currently making two knives for someone that always holds the knife with a finger-point grip and uses the tip to make every cut.
 
Kippington said:
When I do this kind of analysis, it brings up the question - Do I make a knife for the customers existing skills, or do I make a better one for them to develop into...
I'm currently making two knives for someone that always holds the knife with a finger-point grip and uses the tip to make every cut.
Click to expand...

I think part of the answer is to know where they are on their knife journey and how adaptable they are to change. And if there is a reason for them to - if their current techniques meet the needs for their cooking, do they need to?
 
Carl Kotte said:
As in 15 liters of perfect mire poix in less than 55 minutes?
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I can do a pretty perfect mire poix - maybe at about a liter or two an hour.....

I would like to be faster, but as a home cook there is little pressure, except for wanting to be done big preps in a shorter time.
 
Carl Kotte said:
As in 15 liters of perfect mire poix in less than 55 minutes?
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The test is 300 entrée portions of bruschetta mix in 90 minutes... but within that time you also have to cook a small breakfast service to order, check and accept the meat and vegetable deliveries, mix and bake the fresh bread for the day...
bruschetta.png
 
esoo said:
I can do a pretty perfect mire poix - maybe at about a liter or two an hour.....

I would like to be faster, but as a home cook there is little pressure, except for wanting to be done big preps in a shorter time.
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Yeah, I can’t work that fast. No way. But I trained under a very competitive chef who had good knife skills. He often talked (well, bragged) about How much mire poix he could cut in an hour. Seeing him work I believed him. His cuts were very even (I could compare it pretty well, since mine were thrown into stock or soup or something).
 
Kippington said:
The test is 300 entrée portions of bruschetta mix in 90 minutes... but within that time you also have to cook a small breakfast service to order, check and accept the meat and vegetable deliveries, mix and bake the fresh bread for the day...
bruschetta.png
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Is it too late to retire?
 
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