Price vs performance differential

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henkle

henkle

KKF Supporting Member
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Hi - I've been enjoying reading about all the knowledge here on KKF. However, because there is such a wealth of experience and strong opinions it can be a bit daunting for a rookie to sort out the variables of picking a gyuto. So my question is, for a home cook who is looking for a 210 - 240 carbon or stainless clad gyuto, is there a significant performance differential between a $100 - $150 knife and a $150 - $200 knife? In other words, will I quickly regret spending my $100 dollars on a knife when that's half-way to a $200 dollar knife (like when I bought m first house). I understand there are infinite permutations of personal preferences, so I'm looking for a kind of general answer I guess. Thanks.
 
In general, yes, I'd say you'd regret it. You could probably buy a knife around 200 USD that'd keep you happy for a very long time. Should you go with a knife around 100 USD, on the other hand, it probaly wouldn't take long before you'd want to try something more exciting, which would make your initial purchase obsolete.

Specify what you want in particular and post a thread, and you'd probably get a number of suggestions around 200 that perform on par with a lot of knives costing two or three times as much.
 
I don't know if regret is the right word. Most of us started with cheaper knives (and cheaper sharpening stones). There is a learning curve to what you do/do not like and there is nothing wrong starting cheaper. If you like this forum, just don't expect the cheaper knife to be your last...
 
henkle said:
Hi - I've been enjoying reading about all the knowledge here on KKF. However, because there is such a wealth of experience and strong opinions it can be a bit daunting for a rookie to sort out the variables of picking a gyuto. So my question is, for a home cook who is looking for a 210 - 240 carbon or stainless clad gyuto, is there a significant performance differential between a $100 - $150 knife and a $150 - $200 knife? In other words, will I quickly regret spending my $100 dollars on a knife when that's half-way to a $200 dollar knife (like when I bought m first house). I understand there are infinite permutations of personal preferences, so I'm looking for a kind of general answer I guess. Thanks.
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To me, there're perfectly usable knives in the 100–150 USD range. However, it's in the 300 and higher range that you'll usually find, what I consider a huge jump in quality. Also, it makes no difference at all if you're a home cook or pro—Katos, Shigs, Mazakis are in use in both. So, "for a home cook," it all depends on your comfort zone with price, and how high up the knife ladder you want to climb! I know home cooks that have quickly bought 1k+ honyakis and Katos—and pro cooks that won't spend more than 150 on a knife.
 
If anything I might say $100-150 is kind of a dead zone. If you want a knife to learn sharpening, maybe try carbon steel for the first time to see if it's practical for you, learn some basic preferences, I would go for under $100 with the expectation that later on you'll go up into that $200 range for a keeper. I got a ton of value out of my Tojiro DP because it allowed me to afford better knives later and to known how to treat them. I would have regretted dropping $200 on my first knife, since I would have beat it up learning to sharpen.
 
Blerghle said:
If anything I might say $100-150 is kind of a dead zone. If you want a knife to learn sharpening, maybe try carbon steel for the first time to see if it's practical for you, learn some basic preferences, I would go for under $100 with the expectation that later on you'll go up into that $200 range for a keeper. I got a ton of value out of my Tojiro DP because it allowed me to afford better knives later and to known how to treat them. I would have regretted dropping $200 on my first knife, since I would have beat it up learning to sharpen.
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I hope $100-150 isn’t a dead zone. I have this knife on the way to me right now.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...l&utm_source=back-in-stock&variant=7069765445
 
backdoc said:
I hope $100-150 isn’t a dead zone. I have this knife on the way to me right now.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...l&utm_source=back-in-stock&variant=7069765445
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That’s a really good knife. I have the wa handled version as a beater, and you can beat the hell out of it. My wife uses it to cut cakes on ceramic, I’ll use it to cut really crusty stuff, and possibly half frozen stuff once in a blue moon. It has never once even microchipped. And yet somehow it holds a decent edge. A+

Edit: oh, sorry, you linked to the Gesshin stainless. I was talking about the Uraku, which is $150 or so. I haven’t personally tried the stainless, but many people rave about it, so I think that’s a really great buy too.
 
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ian said:
That’s a really good knife. I have the wa handled version as a beater...
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A good fall bac plan is to become a beater...

TlDR...two main ideas are

1 - buy once, cry once
2 - fail forward

If you go w/#2, find someting to double as a potential beater

If you go w/#1, spend time (&$$) to find ~good profile+grind+taper

risk of #1 is you dont know your preferences yet...so tradeoffs !!
 
If I could go back in time—which obviously I can't—and had a budget of $150. I'd choose not to buy anything—skip over a bunch of the sub-$300 knives I've bought that're languishing away in storage, save my money to buy a Watanabe gyuto. For me, it proved a false economy using 'bang-for-buck' as a parameter when I first got into buying—I'd rather pay over the odds for something I really want, than settle for a knife that's just a really good deal.
 
I don't think you would regret buying a good knife 210mm under $150. 240mm are more expensive.
I'd recommend the wa handle SLD Kaeru or a western handle Misono Swedish Carbon for midweights or Takamura Chromax for good all around laser.
 
agree w/ ditmas u dont save money spending 2x$150 knives vs 1x $300 knife. "economizing" makes sense only if 1 and done...but not if N+1 :)

210 misono ux10 used to be around $160 but not sure anymore...
 
DitmasPork said:
If I could go back in time—which obviously I can't—and had a budget of $150. I'd choose not to buy anything—skip over a bunch of the sub-$300 knives I've bought that're languishing away in storage, save my money to buy a Watanabe gyuto. For me, it proved a false economy using 'bang-for-buck' as a parameter when I first got into buying—I'd rather pay over the odds for something I really want, than settle for a knife that's just a really good deal.
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But would you be able to appreciate Wat gyuto if you skipped over the other knives and didn't experience them. That is the conundrum. All these questions to short cut the journey miss the point that you can't appreciate a really good knife until you experience not so good ones first. People also think that if they just buy a good, expensive knife that it will do everything for them. more experienced user understand that high end knives come with a lot of baggage you need to care for them correctly, sharpen, keep clean, not cut some stuff, use proper technique, etc.
 
I'd say, in my experience, generally speaking, knives start ticking most boxes at about $150, depending on size. $200 to about $300-350 is a good sweet spot for good geometry, profile and fit and finish. And options.
 
Barmoley said:
But would you be able to appreciate Wat gyuto if you skipped over the other knives and didn't experience them. That is the conundrum. All these questions to short cut the journey miss the point that you can't appreciate a really good knife until you experience not so good ones first. People also think that if they just buy a good, expensive knife that it will do everything for them. more experienced user understand that high end knives come with a lot of baggage you need to care for them correctly, sharpen, keep clean, not cut some stuff, use proper technique, etc.
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Very good point! I should've included "if I knew back then what I know now." I can confidently say that all of the early (2010–2013) knives I bought were "good" knives. What was useful for me in buying a good number of knives, somewhat blindly—either based on reviews, personal recommendations, and info sourced from threads here, is that using different knives helped me define what knives I like and respond to. Of the early knives—Kono Fujiyama, Watanabe, Misono UX10, Gengetsu, Kagero—the only one that I jived with and still use regularly is Watanabe. As mentioned, they're all good knives, but through using them the Watanabe helped in figuring out my preference. I've always taken good care of my knives before getting into J-knives, my Wustofs and Sabs still in good shape—but yeah, higher end J-knives takes care up a notch.
 
backdoc said:
I hope $100-150 isn’t a dead zone. I have this knife on the way to me right now.
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...l&utm_source=back-in-stock&variant=7069765445
Click to expand...

Poor choice of words on my part, that is a really good knife! I actually bought that model in that size several years ago and really enjoyed it as a line knife before it was, unfortunately, stolen. As with anything from JKI, well finished and impeccable service.

In hindsight, I would put it another way. You can absolutely get a very good knife for $150, and for most people including me, the limiting factor for cutting performance is not going to be the quality of the knife or steel but rather the quality of the sharpening technique. A couple of people pointed out very good values, and any of those knives in the hands of a capable sharpener will perform as well as more expensive knives.

However, if I know in my heart that I'm going to want to drop $200-300 as a home cook on my main knife for whatever reasons, I would want to spend less on a starter knife and retain more money for the later purchase. I still think it's an important step to get something to gain experience sharpening, so I wouldn't want to jump right to that. I'd rather spend $60 on a starter and keep the extra $90 or so to spend on the keeper. In the same way that more money on a knife doesn't get you very far as a mediocre sharpener, more money on a starter knife is wasted unless you're a very fast learner. YMMV
 
I try to buy where I find diminishing returns hits the hardest for the money. For knives, that's usually at $200, $350, and $700 in my experience. My buyer's remorse usually comes in the form of "I might as well have spent barely more" or "the cheaper one is exactly the same", so this helps me out in that respect. Past that point you're paying for feel more than performance imo and it gets harder to justify. I've had enough for the unicorn that started this for me for awhile now, I just can't pull the trigger for some reason.
 
Chicagohawkie said:
Take it from a guy who’s wasted a lot of time and money on knives. Buy a 210 Takamura and forget you ever came here......:LOL::LOL::LOL:
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True dat, probably the best advise you will get up above. I think the biggest jump is closer to $300 going up to $500. If you are talking quickest way to get a really great one. But the reality is if you stay on the forums, it's like food you are going to want to consume different things. Even if you could eat the greatest steak every night, you are still going to crave ramen and pizza. I started out pretty cheap, I bought a couple of knives that were close to $200 but learned on a $75 Richmond Artifex and kept the other ones in a drawer like they were trophy or something. My 2 cents is get one of these makers that are either going away or coming up like toyoma or mazaki. I could of got some knives that I want now, when I first started but I just wasn't there yet. Throwing down $400 on a Fujiyama when I first started was way out of my league.
 
Jville said:
get one of these makers that are either going away or coming up like toyoma or mazaki.
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I'm new, and this is why I got my Mazaki petty, and am waiting for some smaller gyutos to come in stock some/anywhere. IF the new stuff has a profile I like.
 
Jville said:
True dat, probably the best advise you will get up above. I think the biggest jump is closer to $300 going up to $500. If you are talking quickest way to get a really great one. But the reality is if you stay on the forums, it's like food you are going to want to consume different things. Even if you could eat the greatest steak every night, you are still going to crave ramen and pizza. I started out pretty cheap, I bought a couple of knives that were close to $200 but learned on a $75 Richmond Artifex and kept the other ones in a drawer like they were trophy or something. My 2 cents is get one of these makers that are either going away or coming up like toyoma or mazaki. I could of got some knives that I want now, when I first started but I just wasn't there yet. Throwing down $400 on a Fujiyama when I first started was way out of my league.
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Tried em all. Started reasonable and went all in and am now back to sub 500 and more in the 200 to 300 range. You can find knives that are in the 200 - 300 buck range that will get you to the top of performance curve, after that your paying for pretty and hype. Shite, back in the day 300 got you a Carter, shig, kato or top o the line Kono.
 
I think if knives are truly a hobby, then regardless of what you buy or spend, you'll always have an interest for 'the next' knife. Certainly happens for me - I'll admire and wish for a knife for quite a while, and then even if it's as good as I thought it would be after buying it, I'll keep reading KKF and something else will spark my curiosity. I don't really regret buying the existing knife (unless I actually don't like the profile/grind/etc), but doesn't stop me from wanting another.

So overall, regardless of the $100-150 or $150-200 price point, make sure it's a knife that you do like. If you buy a knife that you didn't really want, just to save $50, then the regret might creep up.
 
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