Receiving a warped/bent knife

[Danejah]

Hello everyone

I am a longtime admirer of KKF and spend a lot of time here but not a very active poster as I lack confidence in my abilities compared to most on here so Al way looking to learn more.Full time organic vegetable farmer and teacher with a strong interest in cooking and knives/tools in general. I’ve been interested in kitchen knives for close to 7-8 years with my first nice knife being a kochi (since then many more).

I purchased a Munetoshi 240 a few weeks back from JNS and yesterday I put it to stones for the first time and noticed the blade is bent/warped (not sure how to decide on which it is) since the bevel I was putting on the knife basically disappeared on the area in question(metal raised higher in that section). I took a closer look and sure enough it was not straight. Now I know things like this can happen but wondering A: should this be resolved by jns as an oversight by him (is a F&F being advertised as not great mean this too is also a possibility? Seems like this is not a F&F issue to me)
B: should I just not make a stink about it with seller and accept the reality and try and fix it myself (never had to try and fix a blade before and worried about the potential of making things worse since I don’t know what I’m doing re fixing a blade but I am capable and handy in general), I really don’t want to have to spend a bunch more money on the knife shipping it somewhere just to have it fixed. Hammer it out? Make a wooden tool I’ve seen to place the blade in and straighten it? Is it really that bent/warped?

I have reached out to seller waiting for response but wanted the community’s opinion as well. I’m not upset and understand these things happen but just want to know what the proper reaction should be and how best to try and fix it.

Thanks

 

[Choppin]

if I understood correctly, when sharpening the stone doesn’t touch 100% of the length of the edge (ie there are areas of the edge left untouched), right?

if this is the case, although not uncommon with more rustic J-knives, I’d reach out to the seller like you did. you should expect to be able to sharpen a knife right out of the box. if this is not possible, there is an issue. just my view on things.

again, that’s not uncommon - I have received a few knives with this issue, mostly sub $150 knives from Rakuten or directly from makers known to be more rustic and less focused on F&F. some of them had a slightly bent spine but straight edge; some had a straight spine but bent edge. IMO it’s only a problem if you can’t properly sharpen it.

anyway it’s a bit of a pain to fix yourself and since you got it from a reputable seller I’d check with him.

 

[Danejah]

if I understood correctly, when sharpening the stone doesn’t touch 100% of the length of the edge (ie there are areas of the edge left untouched), right?

if this is the case, although not uncommon with more rustic J-knives, I’d reach out to the seller like you did. you should expect to be able to sharpen a knife right out of the box. if this is not possible, there is an issue. just my view on things.

again, that’s not uncommon - I have received a few knives with this issue, mostly sub $150 knives from Rakuten or directly from makers known to be more rustic and less focused on F&F. some of them had a slightly bent spine but straight edge; some had a straight spine but bent edge. IMO it’s only a problem if you can’t properly sharpen it.

anyway it’s a bit of a pain to fix yourself and since you got it from a reputable seller I’d check with him.

Thanks for your response , so when sharpening there is one section of the blade near the heel around the spot of kanji that doesn’t touch. Maybe an inch or so of the edge in total. Seller responded with apologies and a video of how to attempt to fix. Apparently in a common spot for this to happen and should be “easily fixed” by me by placing blade on flat wooden surface and just bending the knife till straight. I’ve yet to try so we shall see how successful I am. Bought this knife with a koppa to get better at thinning/polishing as a “project knife” so it’s really starting to turn out to be so I guess ….a $350 dollar project (knife + stone). Nobody’s fault but mine but lesson will be learned and hopefully I straighten things out easily….

 

[user 16756]

bends are easily fixable in san mai knives. yes be careful yes take your time yes lean towards undercorrecting at first but it's doable.

it's also really common, I have found. Most bends are small enough to not matter at least.

 

[Skylar303]

I was super nervous about straightening a few knives for the first time but the described way is what I did. Knife on wood hand on blade and lift not press down on the blade, I was told it's easier to control the amount of force up, and easier to over do it downward. I'm sure you'll be able to get it straight it looks more middle-ish than tip or heel which I think maybe easier. But only have limited experience with straightening. GL!

 

[tostadas]

The bend looks really minor. You could probably bend it back in less than a minute.

 

[ReiHamono]

No one should be selling a defective product, and it should never ever go on the buyer to remedy the issue.

Ask for either a full refund or at least a partial

 

[Danejah]

The bend looks really minor. You could probably bend it back in less than a minute.

Agreed, still not ideal and wish it would have be caught prior to shipping since it is relatively obvious and why I choose to buy from from reputable sellers. At the end of the day not a big deal I’m sure I’ll be able to fix it.

 

[Danejah]

No one should be selling a defective product, and it should never ever go on the buyer to remedy the issue.

Ask for either a full refund or at least a partial

Glad you mentioned this, I feel the same way. Ultimately in my eyes it’s both the maker and sellers product. He is selling these knives at a mark up (especially for the “rustic” knives) and as you mentioned I was sold a defective knife.

 

[Corradobrit1]

I hope the seller agreed to replace it if it can't be straightened to your satisfaction.

 

[Skylar303]

That's usually the case with unused items. Not sure about used since unfortunately it was put to a stone before it was noticed.

 

[JoBone]

No one should be selling a defective product..,
Ask for either a full refund or at least a partial

Unless you are purchasing a high end knife, these types of bends are not uncommon and are considered acceptable by the blacksmiths and Japanese dealers. From my conversations with them, small issues with hand forged knives are not as much of a thing in Asia as they are in the EU and N Americas.

The concern I would have for a return or refund is due to it being used. How will the shop know if the knife was sent that way or if it was bent out of misuse?

You would be surprised at the number of people who damage knives and then ask for refunds. What I find interesting is the number people that have stated the damage came from chopping garlic. I wonder if they keep the skins on while chopping…

I highly suggest reviewing a shop’s return policy and inspecting the knife before using. I’ve purchased from JNS on a number of occasions and have been happy with the results.

 

[McMan]

One thing to keep in mind is that a straight edge will not show a bend well. The distal taper plus changes in taper/grind from spine to edge as a product of the grind will throw a straight edge edge off. From the pictures, it looks like you're checking at the middle of the knife blade not the edge. Instead, check only at the edge. Or, better yet, hold just the edge of the knife on the edge of a stone (or something else very flat). If there's a bend, it'll be obvious. Sometimes a knife will have a straight edge but not a straight spine.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Good for you to be trying to learn. You'll get it. It's hard for me to tell in the pictures but I agree it doesn't look bad. Just do a little at a time. Can always go more.

A side shot of the edge with the trouble spot marked might help folks gauge things better.

Give her a tweak, check on a high grit stone (shows things without removing much material) and see where ya get. Munetoshi's are meant to be workers so give it some guidance and put it to work!

 

[ReiHamono]

I’m trying to think of another product that’s sold around the same price range where it’s acceptable for it to have a warp or bend in it but I really can’t come up with anything.

I couldn’t imagine ordering a cutting board that’s warped or has a scratch in it, a piece of furniture, an electronic device or anything.

Could you imagine buying a wrench / socket wrench, screwdriver, etc. and when you get it it’s bent?

A straight spine, and a straight edge are fundamental to a knife and I could never imagine myself selling or reselling something that’s not in line with that idea.

Hopefully this is a lesson for all of us as well as the newer people here to remember to immediately check your knife out of the box.

Lower range knifes do not have to have a perfect fit and finish, but they must stick to the fundamentals which means that the knife needs to have a straight spine, a straight edge, and be sharp and ready to cut well.

Anything less than that and the person shouldn’t be making or selling knives end of story.

Also, it’s very frustrating when the retailers are having a 100% to 500% markup on a knife and don’t even check to make sure that the knifes fundamentals are in place before reselling and just see dollar signs.

Let’s aim to do better than that

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I’m trying to think of another product that’s sold around the same price range where it’s acceptable for it to have a warp or bend in it but I really can’t come up with anything.

I couldn’t imagine ordering a cutting board that’s warped or has a scratch in it, a piece of furniture, an electronic device or anything.

Could you imagine buying a wrench / socket wrench, screwdriver, etc. and when you get it it’s bent?

A straight spine, and a straight edge are fundamental to a knife and I could never imagine myself selling or reselling something that’s not in line with that idea.

Hopefully this is a lesson for all of us as well as the newer people here to remember to immediately check your knife out of the box.

Lower range knifes do not have to have a perfect fit and finish, but they must stick to the fundamentals which means that the knife needs to have a straight spine, a straight edge, and be sharp and ready to cut well.

Anything less than that and the person shouldn’t be making or selling knives end of story.

Also, it’s very frustrating when the retailers are having a 100% to 500% markup on a knife and don’t even check to make sure that the knifes fundamentals are in place before reselling and just see dollar signs.

Let’s aim to do better than that

All fair but he's already used it and taken it to the stones so it's hard to ask the vendor to cover it. So the lesson here is to inspect prior to use but that's come and gone in this particular case so might as well make lemonade.

 

[ethompson]

Only place I’d buy a knife and be really confident it was straight is JKI. I’ve received very high end western maker knives with small bends (and not small bends). Most knives I get from BST have bends.

Unfortunate reality. If you’re going to do extensive maintenance on your own blades it’s a skill worth learning.

Finally, a straight spine doesn’t mean a straight edge and vv

 

[bsfsu]

Unless you are purchasing a high end knife, these types of bends are not uncommon and are considered acceptable by the blacksmiths and Japanese dealers. From my conversations with them, small issues with hand forged knives are not as much of a thing in Asia as they are in the EU and N Americas.

The concern I would have for a return or refund is due to it being used. How will the shop know if the knife was sent that way or if it was bent out of misuse?

You would be surprised at the number of people who damage knives and then ask for refunds. What I find interesting is the number people that have stated the damage came from chopping garlic. I wonder if they keep the skins on while chopping…

I highly suggest reviewing a shop’s return policy and inspecting the knife before using. I’ve purchased from JNS on a number of occasions and have been happy with the results.

I have had similar discussions with Japanese dealers and makers, small imperfections in hand made knives is fine, I've definitely had some higher end knives with bends and imperfections too.

Knives tend to bend with use too, so it's good to know how to straighten them. I rarely get a perfectly straight knife in for sharpening

Check the returns policy. Maybe thats why my sales are dead, I need to update mine .

 

[Danejah]

I appreciate everyone’s feed back here and can see both sides of the coin. At this point since I did use the knife and attempted to sharpen it I can see not being eligible for any sort of refund which I can understand.

I know the pictures are questionable for some folks but the edge of the blade is definitely not straight and is a defect that I feel could have been easily caught had it been inspected thoroughly. I hardly used this knife and no misuse was done on my end, I’m only cutting veg with it and only what I grow this time of year which is leafy things.

I’ll chalk this up as a lesson learned but will also choose to spend my money elsewhere (JKI and KnifeJapan, both of which I’ve had unbelievable customer service experiences with)…..

 

[KenjiF]

Great work catching it early. First knife I attempted to thin was bent and twisted and I ruined the knife by trying to polish it out. Straightening is a skill you have to learn if your going to do any thinning. Sorry it came bent but it’s good you’re learning the skill now.

If a knife arrives bent I’ll fix. If it’s twisted (looks like a propeller blade) I’ll send it back. Ive fixed these blades before but it’s a huge pain.

 

[Delat]

You would be surprised at the number of people who damage knives and then ask for refunds. What I find interesting is the number people that have stated the damage came from chopping garlic. I wonder if they keep the skins on while chopping…

I bent the edge of my Yoshikane chopping roots ends off unpeeled garlic. I changed things up after that fiasco and now I peel first then chop off the root.

 

[M1k3]

I’m trying to think of another product that’s sold around the same price range where it’s acceptable for it to have a warp or bend in it but I really can’t come up with anything.

I couldn’t imagine ordering a cutting board that’s warped or has a scratch in it, a piece of furniture, an electronic device or anything.

Could you imagine buying a wrench / socket wrench, screwdriver, etc. and when you get it it’s bent?

A straight spine, and a straight edge are fundamental to a knife and I could never imagine myself selling or reselling something that’s not in line with that idea.

Hopefully this is a lesson for all of us as well as the newer people here to remember to immediately check your knife out of the box.

Lower range knifes do not have to have a perfect fit and finish, but they must stick to the fundamentals which means that the knife needs to have a straight spine, a straight edge, and be sharp and ready to cut well.

Anything less than that and the person shouldn’t be making or selling knives end of story.

Also, it’s very frustrating when the retailers are having a 100% to 500% markup on a knife and don’t even check to make sure that the knifes fundamentals are in place before reselling and just see dollar signs.

Let’s aim to do better than that

TF comes to mind. But they aren't the same price range, except maybe the Nashiji line.

 

[ReiHamono]

A different product as in something other than knives that is acceptable for it to be warped or bent

TF comes to mind. But they aren't the same price range, except maybe the Nashiji line.

 

[KenjiF]

TF comes to mind. But they aren't the same price range, except maybe the Nashiji line.

The knife that was warped and bent was a TF mab Nakiri. Never should have left the factory.

 

[M1k3]

The knife that was warped and bent was a TF mab Nakiri. Never should have left the factory.

OP bought a Munetoshi. The question was about other brands.

I agree that QC could be improved. All I was doing though, is pointing out another maker that has a reputation for bad f&f that is popular. With quite a bit fanbase and justifiers of poor QC.

 

[esoo]

As @EricEricEric says, there 8a no reason for these flaws. If the end user can fix them, they should be fixed by the smith or vendor before shipping.

The other side of that is I recall of at least one case where a knife bending after shipping. I've heard of san-mai needing to "rest" after creation. It can warp afterwards due to street release. Not sure how true that is, but I recall seeing in a few places.

 

[esoo]

I had a warped denka nakiri. Retailer accepted it for return even though 8 discovered it after first use.

 

[maxim]

Just to make all clear here, I do inspect all knives I send out, this kind of bends can even happen under shipping, I did receive email about it and sugested how to fix it made video on how to fix as it can happen to any soft clad knife , but I did not get any qastions suggestion about return or refund etc.

 

[bsfsu]

As @EricEricEric says, there 8a no reason for these flaws. If the end user can fix them, they should be fixed by the smith or vendor before shipping.

The other side of that is I recall of at least one case where a knife bending after shipping. I've heard of san-mai needing to "rest" after creation. It can warp afterwards due to street release. Not sure how true that is, but I recall seeing in a few places.

Single bevels can (edit: swapping will for can) warp over time due to the hard and soft steels, after forge welding the knife is left to rest for months and even years before it is finished as a knife.

In regards to the flaws, the Blacksmith will send out what he considers ok (sometimes that will be a bit wavy ), the vendor may fix it even more after that (or not) and the customer gets what the blacksmith and the vendor consider good enough. If your after perfection you need to go down the manufactured line, I'm yet to come across a flawless handmade knife.

 

[blokey]

Just to make all clear here, I do inspect all knives I send out, this kind of bends can even happen under shipping, I did receive email about it and sugested how to fix it made video on how to fix as it can happen to any soft clad knife , but I did not get any qastions suggestion about return or refund etc.

Sadly this happens, the reality of soft Sanmai blade is that they are more susceptible to minor bent and not spring back like a monosteel. Tho that said under enough force a monosteel would simply break whereas Sanmai could still be fixable. Here’s a example of my bad packaging combined with UPS brutal force