Good on you for taking the leap! You might want to look at a recent thread about maximizing edge retention through choice of steel, too.
Search for the optimum fish breaking/filleting knife
- Thread starter petrel
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Will do. Thanks.
That guy in the first video made me laugh with him trying to filet his fish. When I use a filet knife, I start from the head on one side and then cut through to the tail without cutting through the tail. And no reason to cut the head off. I then flop over the cut fish and filet from the tail to skin the filet between the skin and the fish meat. You end up with one filet and no skin. Then cut the rib cage off the fileted piece. Repeat with the other side. done. You end up with a head and skeleton. No need to cut the head off. This process only takes a couple of minutes using a filet knife. Been doing this all my life.
Only time you need a bigger knife if you are cutting really large fish maybe 50 pounds up. I don't go offshore any more to catch large fish.
This is all based on me fishing around Texas for 60 years.
PS
The flexible part helps with skinning between the fish meat and skin so you can make it in one stroke.
Only time you need a bigger knife if you are cutting really large fish maybe 50 pounds up. I don't go offshore any more to catch large fish.
This is all based on me fishing around Texas for 60 years.
PS
The flexible part helps with skinning between the fish meat and skin so you can make it in one stroke.
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I don’t think he did very well with either knife.
There is no shortage of other YT videos of folks doing a very impressive jobs with debas. Folks who actually do it for a living reach an enviable level of efficiency with minimal waste and smooth cuts.
Not saying that isn’t achieved every day with a variety of other knives too. The Deba is just my current fascination.
There is no shortage of other YT videos of folks doing a very impressive jobs with debas. Folks who actually do it for a living reach an enviable level of efficiency with minimal waste and smooth cuts.
Not saying that isn’t achieved every day with a variety of other knives too. The Deba is just my current fascination.
Kaic137
Well-Known Member
Thread 'Sakai Takayuki Togashi Deba Blue #2 180mm' WTS - Sakai Takayuki Togashi Deba Blue #2 180mm
I got a 180mm for sale if you are interested. Happy to post to USA for a small fee. Cheers
I got a 180mm for sale if you are interested. Happy to post to USA for a small fee. Cheers
If you're looking for disagreement, you've come to the right place – everything's debatable at the deba table!
Bodine
Senior Member
No knife stands up to a few triggerfish
I’ve been wondering about that. Technique can spare the edge some wear, but not completely.
We’ve sometimes resorted to box cutters for the initial skinning cut, then switch to a fillet knife once that armor plating is out of the way.
Was hoping some exotic metal could overcome this.
We’ve sometimes resorted to box cutters for the initial skinning cut, then switch to a fillet knife once that armor plating is out of the way.
Was hoping some exotic metal could overcome this.
If you are looking for edge retention Greg Cimms might be a good choice, he's making some MagnaCut knife now, you can custom order a MagnaCut fillet or one of his tuna knife, should offer plenty of edge retention and durability. ( Also very impressive corrosion resistance if you are looking for that.)
Jovidah
I'll make you a sponsor offer you can't refuse...
Sounds to me like you're basically looking for 'a faster horse'. Nothing wrong with that. If I was in your position and dead-set on upgrading I'd consider finding some custom maker to make you a western fillet knife in one of the supersteels with higher edge retention.
Getting a in Japanese white steel IMO won't significantly improve your edge retention over something like the Mora (if at all).
Getting a in Japanese white steel IMO won't significantly improve your edge retention over something like the Mora (if at all).
Your Dexter's will respond well to your Norton set.
The nice thing about the Mora's is that they are hard, sharp, and almost disposable.
I only know of one "super steel" US fillet knife maker. I've been begging him for 3 years to build a knife for me to no avail. Based on my little bit of research, HRC of 62-63 is rare in anything readily available here, but fairly accessible in Japanese knives. I know steel hardness isn't everything, but I figured it was a start.
If anyone knows of a super steel US fillet knife maker that isn't sold out and taking deposits for a waiting list, please share.
I only know of one "super steel" US fillet knife maker. I've been begging him for 3 years to build a knife for me to no avail. Based on my little bit of research, HRC of 62-63 is rare in anything readily available here, but fairly accessible in Japanese knives. I know steel hardness isn't everything, but I figured it was a start.
If anyone knows of a super steel US fillet knife maker that isn't sold out and taking deposits for a waiting list, please share.
, hardness is not the most important thing, high alloy steel would easily have higher edge retention at lower hardness than low alloy steel at higher hardness.
Jovidah
I'll make you a sponsor offer you can't refuse...
A good place to start understanding what really factors into edge retention is this article:
Testing the Edge Retention of 48 Knife Steels - Knife Steel Nerds
Basically it's not just all about the HRC; the carbides play a huge role. The best way to visualize this is that steels aren't a homogenuous blanks mass; they're more of a chocolate chip cooky dough.
And I'm with you on the Mora; they're nice while still being cheap enough that you can abuse them without thinking twice about it. I have the same knife and while originally bought as a cheap way to get into filleting it's an extremely useful and filleting knife. And I somewhat reluctantly have to admit that for trimming meat it doesn't seem to do any worse than even my Ashi Ginga petty...
Testing the Edge Retention of 48 Knife Steels - Knife Steel Nerds
Basically it's not just all about the HRC; the carbides play a huge role. The best way to visualize this is that steels aren't a homogenuous blanks mass; they're more of a chocolate chip cooky dough.
And I'm with you on the Mora; they're nice while still being cheap enough that you can abuse them without thinking twice about it. I have the same knife and while originally bought as a cheap way to get into filleting it's an extremely useful and filleting knife. And I somewhat reluctantly have to admit that for trimming meat it doesn't seem to do any worse than even my Ashi Ginga petty...
Good to know. How the heck does the purchaser determine what alloy vs what hardness a knife maker/manufacturer is offering. Oops! I think I was just told how in the next post!
That's and awfully Debaesque looking tuna cleaver.
That's and awfully Debaesque looking tuna cleaver.
I have a lot of fillet knives and lost a few but my Henckels salmon knife is my favorite fish skinning knife. I would think the Wusthof salmon knife would be good also.
For cheap filet knives I used Rapala Fillet knifes, the one with the wood handle. They come in different sizes, and they were available at the fishing stores. I wonder how they compare to a Mora?
For cheap filet knives I used Rapala Fillet knifes, the one with the wood handle. They come in different sizes, and they were available at the fishing stores. I wonder how they compare to a Mora?
I have one of the old Buck made filet knives I think it was called an oceanmate that I like. I use it on larger fish because it is a little bit thicker.
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Dan-
Senior Member
I disagree - I think we can find a lot of common ground
Tuna cleaver is pretty traditional knife used in Taiwan and Southern China, unlike deba they are traditionally double bevelled and much more curvy.
But the point is Greg Cimms can custom make you a fishing knife with modern PM steel, himself is an avid fishman and made a lot of fishing related stuff.
Why not just get a $50 Dexter Deba to go along with your collection other Dexters? Dexters are wonderful for the price.
I wish I could "unlike" this. Worst suggestion I've seen in a while. It's like everything this guy doesn't want. Worse than the filet knives he already owns, worse than a cheap carbon beater deba - literally the worst of all possible worlds. @petrel, I might disagree with others on this thread at times, but I can respect where they're coming from. Except this guy. Listen to anybody but this guy.
I also wanted to make the point that scales are usually removed in Japanese style butchery before using the deba - either with uroko otoshi or sukibiki.
For going through ribs, often time the section close to the heel of the deba is sharpened a bit differently to prevent chips - not quite as sharp but angled for durability.
For going through ribs, often time the section close to the heel of the deba is sharpened a bit differently to prevent chips - not quite as sharp but angled for durability.
So, I assume you are talking big fish. I never scale a fish if I am going to filet it. I don't want to waste the time.
No, we often eat the skin too.
Clearly this guy has never spent a minute on a fishing boat or any place that sells or processes fish.
Lotta time on knife forums though....
My job is sourcing and processing fish for a Japanese supermarket chain. I personally train all the fish butchers and was a sushi chef for decades. I grew up butchering fish in my Japanese father’s restaurant and trained with chefs from Tsukiji. Nice neg, bro.
Whoa Bro, that's quite the resume. All that and you still have time to berate people on a knife forum, huh.
My job is sourcing and processing fish for a Japanese supermarket chain. I personally train all the fish butchers and was a sushi chef for decades. I grew up butchering fish in my Japanese father’s restaurant and trained with chefs from Tsukiji. Nice neg, bro.
To the OP, just get a cheap deba. If you are used to butchering fish with American style Dexters you probably won't like it.
The world's greatest fish cutter won't think you are cool though.
I get what you guys are saying, and appreciate the passion.
The dexters have served me well for a very long time. However, this change I wish to make is just as much for the novelty and learning experience as the improvement in efficiency and finished product.
I’m overhauling the way I handle fish, because I’m also overhauling the way we consume fish.
Old way: toss ‘em on the ice, dice ‘em up with a dexter at the dock, cram them in zip locks, toss ‘em back on the ice, then bring them home and grill, bake, or fry.
New way: brain, bleed, (working on the whole Ike jime thing) sometimes gut, pack in ice or slurry, bring home whole or as a “plug”, Take more time breaking down the fish, prepare for sashimi/nigiri/sushi/poke etc. (ok ok I may still fry a trigger or black seabass occasionally
). Heck, I’ve even started making stock from the carcasses!
Even with brutal fuel prices, I’m content to quit fishing with fewer fish in the box and get more enjoyment out of them!
IMHO the Japanese have perfected maximizing fish quality and enjoyment and minimizing waste. So I figured since I’m attempting to handle and enjoy fish like they do, why not start learning about Japanese knives and fish butchery?
The dexters have served me well for a very long time. However, this change I wish to make is just as much for the novelty and learning experience as the improvement in efficiency and finished product.
I’m overhauling the way I handle fish, because I’m also overhauling the way we consume fish.
Old way: toss ‘em on the ice, dice ‘em up with a dexter at the dock, cram them in zip locks, toss ‘em back on the ice, then bring them home and grill, bake, or fry.
New way: brain, bleed, (working on the whole Ike jime thing) sometimes gut, pack in ice or slurry, bring home whole or as a “plug”, Take more time breaking down the fish, prepare for sashimi/nigiri/sushi/poke etc. (ok ok I may still fry a trigger or black seabass occasionally
). Heck, I’ve even started making stock from the carcasses!Even with brutal fuel prices, I’m content to quit fishing with fewer fish in the box and get more enjoyment out of them!
IMHO the Japanese have perfected maximizing fish quality and enjoyment and minimizing waste. So I figured since I’m attempting to handle and enjoy fish like they do, why not start learning about Japanese knives and fish butchery?
@Cpalms
I just wanted to issue a public apology for my comments last night. I was out of line. I’m sorry.
@petrel - sorry for acting like a jerk on your thread. I really like your attitude and your enthusiasm! I really do think an entry level carbon deba is the best fit for you - you’ll get a clear eyed view of their strengths and weaknesses without having to shell out a bunch of cash up front. Then if you want to move up to a nicer deba, you’ll have the knowledge and experience to know what you want. Good luck with your search!
I just wanted to issue a public apology for my comments last night. I was out of line. I’m sorry.
@petrel - sorry for acting like a jerk on your thread. I really like your attitude and your enthusiasm! I really do think an entry level carbon deba is the best fit for you - you’ll get a clear eyed view of their strengths and weaknesses without having to shell out a bunch of cash up front. Then if you want to move up to a nicer deba, you’ll have the knowledge and experience to know what you want. Good luck with your search!
Thank you.
I figure it it doesn't work out I can always use it to split kindling for the fire pit.
I've already got one of those (G-5) on orderI also wonder about the application of those Taiwanese style fish knives? Just in the "try something different" category. I mean, the big ones make quick work out of tuna in a bunch of YT videos.
https://www.amazon.com/Master-Kuo-small-fish-knife/dp/B08TBQB4XC
I figure it it doesn't work out I can always use it to split kindling for the fire pit.I get what you guys are saying, and appreciate the passion.
The dexters have served me well for a very long time. However, this change I wish to make is just as much for the novelty and learning experience as the improvement in efficiency and finished product.
I’m overhauling the way I handle fish, because I’m also overhauling the way we consume fish.
Old way: toss ‘em on the ice, dice ‘em up with a dexter at the dock, cram them in zip locks, toss ‘em back on the ice, then bring them home and grill, bake, or fry.
New way: brain, bleed, (working on the whole Ike jime thing) sometimes gut, pack in ice or slurry, bring home whole or as a “plug”, Take more time breaking down the fish, prepare for sashimi/nigiri/sushi/poke etc. (ok ok I may still fry a trigger or black seabass occasionally
Even with brutal fuel prices, I’m content to quit fishing with fewer fish in the box and get more enjoyment out of them!
IMHO the Japanese have perfected maximizing fish quality and enjoyment and minimizing waste. So I figured since I’m attempting to handle and enjoy fish like they do, why not start learning about Japanese knives and fish butchery?
Yeah I hear you...I'm guessing you fish the east coast (northeast?) and I have been incorporating better fish handling techniques into my fishing. I now always brain spike, bleed and into a salt water slush. I think there is diminishing returns wiring the fish's spinal cord however (although lots of guys say it's mandatory for dry ageing fish). Few things are more enjoyable than bleeding and collaring a tuna. Still happily break down every fish with (wood handled carbon) Dexters.
Look up a guy named Benny Martinez, who is a slow pitch charter captain (another excellent Japanese technique) in Florida that puts out good content on Ikejime for sportfisherman. Josh Niland's Whole Fish cookbook is great. Outdoor Chef Life is a good channel on YouTube - that guy's knife skills are good. He cuts most fish with whatever gyuto he has laying around - never a deba (or Dexter lol).
