Takeda ....What to look for (now) to keep from getting screwed

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panda

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Sliced focaccia for croutons with my Takeda today and it worked better than mac bread knife. Smooth like butter and not one crumb left behind..
 

Bill13

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That's exactly what I have found. I did not want to use a bread knife on my new new cutting board so a few months I have started using my Takeda gyoto and it works great. The bread knife is now been removed from the knife rack.
 

vlad8

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That's some dedication and tolerance right there.
If I spent 4+bones on a knife and had to spend that kind of time to get her running right, i'd hurt someone.
Again, some are willing to cut him a LOT of slack.
Don't get me wrong I think people should stop buying his knives until he fixes that. If I knew it is gong to take that much time I was going to return it right away.
 

Pensacola Tiger

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Don't get me wrong I think people should stop buying his knives until he fixes that. If I knew it is gong to take that much time I was going to return it right away.
Meh. I just got a stainless clad gyuto that is just fine. I think you're overreacting, to put it mildly.
 

cazhpfan

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I just picked up a very lightly used Takeda 210mm gyuto.

Images of blade and choil are available here: imgur.com/a/EGHHq

What do you think about the geometry given the recent quality control issues?
 

Pensacola Tiger

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I just picked up a very lightly used Takeda 210mm gyuto.

Images of blade and choil are available here: imgur.com/a/EGHHq

What do you think about the geometry given the recent quality control issues?
Looking at choil pictures is a poor way to assess a knife, although is does give some information. How does the knife perform?
 

erikz

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I just picked up a very lightly used Takeda 210mm gyuto.

Images of blade and choil are available here: imgur.com/a/EGHHq

What do you think about the geometry given the recent quality control issues?
Does it really matter what we think of the geometry based on a picture? Try it out :) Cut some stuff and see if you like the way it performs, thats what matters in the end!
 

cazhpfan

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Yes, I know that I should cut something and see how it works. Sadly, there was nothing that needed to be cut yesterday. :knife:

I was mostly hoping folks would have a look at the geometry and give a broad-strokes assessment based on their experience (this is a popular knife, after all).

The knife is forged very thin throughout, and, even if the shoulders at the top of the secondary bevel are too thick, I guess I could thin it out (like others have done).
 

Pensacola Tiger

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Yes, I know that I should cut something and see how it works. Sadly, there was nothing that needed to be cut yesterday. :knife:

I was mostly hoping folks would have a look at the geometry and give a broad-strokes assessment based on their experience (this is a popular knife, after all).

The knife is forged very thin throughout, and, even if the shoulders at the top of the secondary bevel are too thick, I guess I could thin it out (like others have done).
One of the things that makes Takedas geometry different from other knives is a mid blade concavity that assists in food release (at least on those I have). This may cause you to think that there is a thinning issue where there is none. That's why I suggested cutting with it first.
 

cazhpfan

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Mine definitely has the mid-blade concavity. I'll report back after I sharpen the blade and put it to use.

One of the things that makes Takedas geometry different from other knives is a mid blade concavity that assists in food release (at least on those I have). This may cause you to think that there is a thinning issue where there is none. That's why I suggested cutting with it first.
 

erikz

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Good luck, I hope you enjoy your Takeda like I enjoy both of mine :)
 

Melampus

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Both my takedas had poor grinds or to be honest SH*T grinds. i sent them both back and he regrind them both.
I tested one of them, the custom, and it was bad... I mean really bad. I see it & hear it in all 3 onions, but really pay attention to third. Watch how it splays the onion on the horizontal slices, and listen to how loud it is as it sounds like it's being pried open. Same on the vertical slices; you'll hear the drag & see how the blade doesnt naturally chop all the way to the board. The shoulders created so much drag, as they wedged into the onions, you had to pay attention to really force it through. Extremely underwhelming... disappointing, at least.:eyebrow:

[video=youtube;PG4ueCBbzo8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PG4ueCBbzo8[/video]

As expected, the AS took a great edge, but it was a bit heavier than I expected:





And here is the size of the original grind:

 
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labor of love

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so even after takeda reground the knife it doesnt perform well? melampus, could you take a choil pic?
 

Dave Martell

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Subject: Takeda

CKTG said:

Ever since I started selling them about 4-5 years ago there have been people that love them or hate them. The thing I object to is having a direct competitor and someone that calls himself a knife maker bad mouth him. Pretty low class if you ask me.

I had a customer buy a Takeda recently and then for some inexplicable reason sent it to cry baby for finish sharpening (they don't need it but whatever). Cry baby told him that the knife was defective and he couldn't sharpen it and to return it. I suggested he send the knife to Ken Schwartz to check it out and sharpen it if he thought it was ok. There of course was nothing wrong with the knife and the guy was thrilled with the knife and the sharpening job.

I've had this same experience with about a half dozen customers for a variety of knives.

The blind screwing the blind. :clown:
 

brianh

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I am LOVING my Watanabe nakiri. I couldn't get though half a carrot or even smoothly cut celery with a Takeda nakiri.
 

Dave Martell

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So here's a Takeda gyuto that was purchased new and wedged bad OTB. The owner returned the knife to the maker to have him fix it. The before & after are shown in the picture below.

Can you see the difference?



Remember, Takeda has made good knives, to ensure that your retailer is providing you with a good one - ask for pictures!
 

Talim

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The blind screwing the blind. :clown:
I had to laugh at that line from the forum run by a vendor who sells these knives. Let's see how long he keeps his words of taking these knives back if it didn't meet customer's expectations.
 

Melampus

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LABOR <> MOWG is correct, in that, I tested Mr. Magnus's knife when it was originally fabricated. I was actually the first one to use it, even before he. It has been repaired, and is on it US tour, right now. I'm last to receive it which should be in a little over a month. I'm excited to see MR.M's design perform to its potential.

MR.M did tell me the profile was modified slightly by the regrind whereas the union of the two distinct flat spots was radiused off a bit creating a bit of a belly... if you can call it that in such a small portion of blade. Nonetheless, MR.M's radical design was, admittedly, for shits & giggles. Said radius should, in my mind, employ more usable length in a rock/glide/walk. I can't find the video I captured, but the first profile would pivot off the head of the rear flat spot so if you were walking herbs, e.g., you only had that flat spot minus the pivot point available to cut; the entire tip flat spot was never employed - cutting a 240 down to say a 200. I think MR.M's design would be more appropriate in the 260-280mm range because it was, before the regrind, truly two knives in one blade. It was peculiar as it looked/acted like a KoBocho as the tip flat spot, and then a flat profiled Gyuto as the rear flat spot. I would have liked both flat spots to be longer for them to had acted more efficiently. I didn't realize any particular benefit to the tip flat spot in chopping scenarios as I believe MR.M imagined it would, but again, he did it entirely as an experiment. I think if it was longer maybe it would have, but honestly, the knife was so unenjoyable I didn't want to use it anymore than the 2.5 days I put it through.
 

Dave Martell

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Well I wasn't going to post this but here goes anyway....

I sharpened a Takeda gyuto today. It has an "S" stamped on the blade, what does this mean...Sasanoha or stainless or ???
It has the new style short thick bevel. I accepted the job to see how this "S" version would sharpen. I found a couple of interesting & unique things for me to see.

I mentioned the thick bevel already, yeah it was a thick one but not as thick as most I've seen, just way thicker than the old stuff has been. The things that stood out were the angles that the bevels were ground in at and how the knife de-burred.

I've sharpened an assload of Takedas over the years and two constants have always been seen (except for debas)....

The first is that the bevels are always VERY shallow especially on the left side. A guess would be less than 10deg on the right and even less than that on the left. This gyuto had angles about 15 deg on the right and 20+ on the left!!!!! Yes I had to raise the left side so high to hit the edge that it took me 5 times to get it right, I just couldn't believe what I was seeing.

The second thing always noted on Takedas is how easily they take an edge and come up burr free. This particular knife was an absolute ***** to deburr. I've never seen anything even remotely like this on a Takeda.

Maybe the steep thick angle had something to do with the deburring problem, I can't say. I know that I didn't enjoy the experience though.

There's the facts as I see them.
 

panda

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so even the steel is not the same? i got a brand new one not too long ago directly from takeda and it too needed bevels raised and thinned (a lot), but it is super easy to sharpen/deburr.

my advice is for potential buyers: if youre not prepared to do some work or have it sent away to get work done, dont bother with one. easy as that right??

it seems there are knives coming out that aren't completely finished products. that sucks, but it doesnt make the knife a crappy one as i think the view on them has been tainted.
 

Dave Martell

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I wouldn't condemn or point fingers from this one knife. For now it's an anomaly.
 

XooMG

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If I were in the USA, I'd send you mine to look at, even though I think I've got a pretty nice knife.
 

mark76

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I got my knife back from Takeda. Wow, what a difference! It cuts like a dream now.

They should do this immediately for every knife that leaves their workshop. It's a bit hard to take choil shots, but I hope you can see the difference.

Before:



After:

 

Matus

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Mark, the image 'before' looks more like a cleaver than a gyuto. I did (and do) play with the idea of trying out a Takeda, but I will make sure to have a return option if I were to do so. Did you by any chance measure the thickness of the blade at some closer distance to the edge before you sent it for re-grind?
 
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