The "Let's Talk About This Knife" Thread.

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blokey said:
Anyone tried those Moritaka KS clone? Kind interested
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Haven't used it, but even just in the pictures it really looks quite far from a KS. Profile might be similar, but it's not a mono and from the looks of it I doubt the taper is remotely close either.
Could still be a good knife, but not really a KS clone.
 
ian said:
I also wonder whether the main reason that removing high spots improves performance is that the knife gets thinner. I bet that’s more of a factor than the fact that the grind is getting more regular, although I’m sure you can feel that a bit too.
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Have you already seen this report about a knife with hollow-grind?

The Hollow

The guy ordered a custom knife with a rather thick geometry that is still easily cutting.
He explaines some of the factors that were important for the design of the overall geometry.

For me this knife looks awesome.
Thugh to be fair for me the whole food-release thing is not so important that I'd order a custom knife.
 
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GeneParmesan said:
Have you already seen this report about a knife with hollow-grind?

The Hollow

The guy ordered a custom knife with a rather thick geometry that is still easily cutting.
He explaines some of the factors that were important for the design of the overall geometry.

For me this knife looks awesome.
Thugh to be fair for me the whole food-release thing is not so important that I'd order a custom knife.
Click to expand...

It looks like a really nice knife, but I’m not sure this design is as revolutionary as the author of the post would have us believe. I mean, there are tons of hollow ground knives out there, and also some with a sharp hooklike transition to the hollow, e.g. Kippington’s hook grind knives, and Kamon’s versions inspired by Kippington. I think some of these are probably convex below the hollow, and are pretty beefy near the spine.

That said, the knife looks very well constructed, and I’d be excited to see how well it cuts. Looks like Uwe did a good job with it. 👍
 
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YAAAAAAH
I'm sitting here at the computer, procrastinating instead of making two of these chevron hook grinds. They are so painfully time consuming to make without fancy equipment. 😭

A small part of my brain is screaming "They're ripping your off! Do something about it".... The majority of my head is saying, "I hope they take all my hook orders away. I'd be happy never making one of these again..."

I wonder if any of them will start using chevrons anytime soon? They honestly make the FR work so much better...

 
@ian

To complete what I was saying in the previous post. I was just talking about how evening a bevel can increase performance by reducing friction, more than by the fact the bevel is thinned in the process.
For exemple, I believe a thicker knife, with good geometry and even bevels can cut better than a thinner knife that is not straight and even. Then you say, is the thicker knife capable of better performance than the thin one with even geometry ? I may say for most kitchen task the thinner one may cut better in some food, but not sure about all tasks and it also depends what we call performance : everytime we talk about this we use words like smoothness, ease of cutting, feeling of cutting, edge retention, non stickyness. Those are mostly subjectives as we all have different experiences in our kitchen, cutting on different support with different technique and cutting different food for different purposes.
But yeah, I think evening a bevel is doing both actually : evening and thinning, so both help for better performance. Is thinning helping more than evening, my side I am not sure.

Then, if we talk about friction, lot of people will think about s, c, hook grinds. Saying that you can grind concavities on a convex geometry knife will give it much better anti-friction capacities. Yeah they may help, they may do wonders. But it is not the subject really. I was just commenting how evening a knife (what ever the geometry and the tool) deal with friction, so help with performance. Which grind is best, why you prefer that knife to an other, why you prefer the anti friction effect of a s grind compared to the anti friction effect of convex grind : all this is personal taste. Like people who prefer driving a ferrari or a old 50's peugeot. There will be pleasure in both case and in both case, both cars performs as good as they were design for. You may go faster in a ferrari and have better sensations, but you may enjoy the landscape better and meet more people along the road with your old peugeot. Depends why you drive.
 
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Oh, another thing, It is actually interesting to think the concavities (in s, c , hook grinds) as uneveness. While the convex or flat grind would the eveness. But it is not really the same, even is how even is grind a geometry, this one can be flat, convex, s, c etc...
Now, if you take a well made s grind, done on belt then sandpaper for exemple : I guess it will cut great and will have a nice releasing food capacity. But now, if you work on it to even it : meaning working with patience to make all surface a little more even : bevel set on stones, concavities worked on stones too until all shapes are clean without hill and valeys, widthwise and lengthwise. Well I guess the knife will perform a little better.
Just to say, whatever the geometry, all got pros and cons, you'll choose the one you prefer ; but whatever the geometry, evening the surfaces will help performance, it will help with reducing friction.
 
Kippington said:
YAAAAAAH
I'm sitting here at the computer, procrastinating instead of making two of these chevron hook grinds. They are so painfully time consuming to make without fancy equipment. 😭

A small part of my brain is screaming "They're ripping your off! Do something about it".... The majority of my head is saying, "I hope they take all my hook orders away. I'd be happy never making one of these again..."

I wonder if any of them will start using chevrons anytime soon? They honestly make the FR work so much better...

Click to expand...


Sorry for being ignorant. What's the purpose for adding the chevrons aside from aesthetic? Would they not actually decrease the lifespan of the knife? I often wonder what would happen by the time the edge is sharpened to near or at the tip of the chevrons?
 
Yoshi said:
I often wonder what would happen by the time the edge is sharpened to near or at the tip of the chevrons?
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I don’t think they’re crazy deep. If you sharpen to the chevrons without thinning, the knife is just gonna suck because it’ll be too thick, but if you thin properly below the hook, the chevrons will disappear before you get to them. Kipp can correct me if they’re deeper than I’m thinking they are.
 
GeneParmesan said:
Have you already seen this report about a knife with hollow-grind?

The Hollow
Click to expand...
ian said:
It looks like a really nice knife, but I’m not sure this design is as revolutionary as the author of the post would have us believe. I mean, there are tons of hollow ground knives out there, and also some with a sharp hooklike transition to the hollow,
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It's kinda revolutionary in the way it's done and what is accomplished, quite some with cnc. The concept itself isn't that revolutionary. There are a lot of S-grind, hollow knife and other concepts out there, some work better than other and want to accomplish different things. Some go for better food release other for reducing stiction and smoother cutting.
The author of said piece has tried many knives and is quite experienced. You can see it in his post. He has tried Kamon's S-Hookgrind and I believe also Kipp's Hookgrind and other different concepts. He's chasing the smoothest cutting possible and in ideal form with good FR.
I would call Uwe/Suntravel one of the top knife makers and personally easily in my top 5 alongside makers like Kippington, Kamon, Bidinger. Haven't tried a knife of his which I didn't like.
If you turn to page 2 post 39 you can see 4 of his concept knives, two prototypes and two finished customs. Got to try all of them.
The bottom one was for a guy who is into lasers and you can feel it. The first cut wowed me. Probably the smoothest cutter I have ever experienced and I do have tried quite some knives. The prototypes felt more massive with great food release even with smaller stuff. My personal favourite was the second from top. Not as a smooth cutter as the bottom but still darn nice and great food release, best balance out of the two factors. There is no perfect knife but probably the best knife I've ever tried. Will be curious when I try the knife of the autor of The Hollow.
 
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Yoshi said:
Sorry for being ignorant. What's the purpose for adding the chevrons aside from aesthetic? Would they not actually decrease the lifespan of the knife? I often wonder what would happen by the time the edge is sharpened to near or at the tip of the chevrons?
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I made this video (3 years ago) to try to explain it:

In essence, the food-release is amazing above the step, but any food sticking will happen below it. That's where I sometimes put more work.
Yes - it kills the lifespan.




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Kippington said:
I made this video (3 years ago) to try to explain it:

In essence, the food-release is amazing above the step, but any food sticking will happen below it. That's where I sometimes put more work.
Yes - it kills the lifespan.




37a727cbf2269d3c92ae82781744be72.png
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If the idea is to reduce the surface area of the step, why not just simply make a shorter step than using chevrons? The overall lifespan of the knife would be the same either way.
 
Yoshi said:
If the idea is to reduce the surface area of the step, why not just simply make a shorter step than using chevrons? The overall lifespan of the knife would be the same either way.
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Yep your thinking is absolutely correct, but I can get the blade thinner behind the edge with a longer step. A short step would require the blade to be thick near the edge, and would behave close to a standard workhorse - which have good food release already. I wanted something thinner then that, but had better FR than a thin convex grind.

The reverse way of thinking of it - consider trying to grind a short step on a knife that is as thin as you can get it behind the edge. You'll probably go through to the other side. If you can get away with it, more power to you, but I'm doing this on a belt-grinder by hand/eye on a blade that tapers to get thinner towards the tip.

Generally speaking - The longer the step is, the thinner you can make the knife BTE, and the better it will perform going through food.

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M1k3 said:
Or Tosaichi.
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Definitely hokiyama. Brand is tsunehisa.

Another thing: could it be that literally all Yamada wrought iron knives the guy made went on BST? He needs to practice with normal steel first before wasting all that precious chain on fat axes that not even enthusiasts will hold on to. His hagane layer is too thick and mostly off center as well. Why.
 
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