Time to Replace My Old Worn-Out Knife Block Set - Questionairre

[Demonsguile]

LOCATION
What country are you in?
United States

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Chef's Knife and Santoku
I would love this as a set, but I understand that purchasing individually usually produces better results.

Are you right or left handed?
Right handed

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Western handle.
I'm extremely leery of the Japanese handle. Essentially, without rivets, I'm afraid that the knife will come apart. I'd LOVE (seriously) someone to convince me otherwise, because they look amazing! Is there a combo-style?

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
8"

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
I don't know enough to say one way or another, I'm afraid.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
$250 per knife.

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
At home.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slicing and Chopping vegetables.
Slicing meats
Cutting poultry (not bone)
Standard kitchen tasks, really.


What knife, if any, are you replacing?
I've wanted to "good" set of knives for years. I have an old knife block that I bought at Target/Walmart/Somewhere unmemorable, and while it's served me well enough, it's well past it's prime. So, I'm looking to trade-in the knife block for one or two good knives.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Pinch grip, primarily.


What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Rock, Push-pull, and Slice.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Better aesthetics - I want it to look good in my kitchen.
Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board?
Wood, not end grain. Though, that'll change soon.
Plastic.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives?
I'm always interested in improving my skills.

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
Not at the moment.

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
Thank you for your help with this.

 

[daveb]

Welcome.

Couple quickies.

Chef Knife (Gyuto) and Santoku are largely redundant - even though one is a tool used by good and better cooks and the other is a santoku. Suggest first purchase of a "good" knife be a gyuto.

FWIW, the western handle is used on the cheapest Japanese knives - and on the most expensive. Not seen much in between. I strongly prefer the wa or "D" handles. No difference in fragility.

This pair is one I like a lot for a first foray into Japanese. It's fairly inexpensive and will let you try them to see what you like and don't like. Longer, heavier, lighter? https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...roducts/gesshin-stainless-set-150mm-and-210mm

Make sure you have some decent stones to maintain any knife you choose.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

You need not have any fear of Japanese (wa) handles coming off. Even the ones that are simply burned on (not common) are quite snug and perfectly fine. But most use wax or low-temp glue to hold them and they aren't coming off with out effort. As some of the folks who do a lot of handle changes.

What do you use to sharpen?

 

[Demonsguile]

You need not have any fear of Japanese (wa) handles coming off. Even the ones that are simply burned on (not common) are quite snug and perfectly fine. But most use wax or low-temp glue to hold them and they aren't coming off with out effort. As some of the folks who do a lot of handle changes.

What do you use to sharpen?

A 1000/6000 whetstone, similar to this. Y'all are the experts. But my layman mind tells me that with all of the rocking/chopping motion that a knife endures, the wax/glue shouldn't be expected to last very long. And then you have a dangerous weapon that could go flying.

DG

 

[Demonsguile]

Welcome.

Couple quickies.

Chef Knife (Gyuto) and Santoku are largely redundant - even though one is a tool used by good and better cooks and the other is a santoku. Suggest first purchase of a "good" knife be a gyuto.

FWIW, the western handle is used on the cheapest Japanese knives - and on the most expensive. Not seen much in between. I strongly prefer the wa or "D" handles. No difference in fragility.

This pair is one I like a lot for a first foray into Japanese. It's fairly inexpensive and will let you try them to see what you like and don't like. Longer, heavier, lighter? https://www.japaneseknifeimports.co...roducts/gesshin-stainless-set-150mm-and-210mm

Make sure you have some decent stones to maintain any knife you choose.

Thank you for the suggestion. I want both a Gyuto and Santoku so that my girl and I can cook at the same time. This allows me to get used to both styles, however minorly differed.

DG

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

A 1000/6000 whetstone, similar to this. Y'all are the experts. But my layman mind tells me that with all of the rocking/chopping motion that a knife endures, the wax/glue shouldn't be expected to last very long. And then you have a dangerous weapon that could go flying.

DG

Okay. Please refrain from posting links until you get a few more posts built up. It triggers the spam filters when new accounts post links.

You don't have to worry about the handles coming off.

You might consider a new knife/stone upgrade. I'm not an advocate of gear overcoming technique but you do need to start with decent gear. Do your stones hold up okay?

 

[Demonsguile]

Okay. Please refrain from posting links until you get a few more posts built up. It triggers the spam filters when new accounts post links.

You don't have to worry about the handles coming off.

You might consider a new knife/stone upgrade. I'm not an advocate of gear overcoming technique but you do need to start with decent gear. Do your stones hold up okay?

They too are starting to show their wear. But overall, I'd say yes. In my quest to find a new knife, I did come across a Precision Knife Sharpener system that looked interesting. The one I reviewed was by KME.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I used a KME for years. A nice setup, well made. But less than ideal for kitchen knives. A couple good water stones will get you going. Shaptons are great start.

Here's a nice thread to give you an idea of some of the various vendors out there that members like. It always helps to browse what is out there to help you know what you might like.

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/who-do-you-buy-from.52523/

 

[Qapla']

Thank you for the suggestion. I want both a Gyuto and Santoku so that my girl and I can cook at the same time. This allows me to get used to both styles, however minorly differed.

DG

Is she also righty?

 

[Nemo]

Y'all are the experts. But my layman mind tells me that with all of the rocking/chopping motion that a knife endures, the wax/glue shouldn't be expected to last very long. And then you have a dangerous weapon that could go flying.

DG

Don't think I've seen anything like this in my 50ish Wa handled knives.

If you are doing a pinch grip correctly, your main grip is on the blade just above the heel. The handle is there mainly to stabilise your grip.

If you aren't sure if you want a stainless knife, you probably do.

If you can sharpen, you don't really need long edge retention for home use. If you really want long edge retention, it's hard to go past highly alloyed powder metallurgy steels. They are not so nice to sharpen but have pretty long edge retention.

SG2 (aka R2) knives from Sukenari, Shiro Kamo, Ryusen (many are you handled), Kurosaki and many others are worth looking at. SRS15 knives such as Akifusa and Gesshin Kagero are also great.

If you are willing to sharpen a little more often, ginsanko is a nice steel to sharpen and still has decent edge retention. I really like my Tanaka Shigeki ginsan but there are many other great makers.

If you want to dabble in non stainless, you could consider a semi stainless knife. Yoshikane's version of SKD12 is excellent although maybe the profile is a little too flat for easy rock chopping.

 

[Demonsguile]

Is she also righty?

Yes, she is.

 

[Demonsguile]

Don't think I've seen anything like this in my 50ish Wa handled knives.

If you are doing a pinch grip correctly, your main grip is on the blade just above the heel. The handle is there mainly to stabilise your grip.

If you aren't sure if you want a stainless knife, you probably do.

If you can sharpen, you don't really need long edge retention for home use. If you really want long edge retention, it's hard to go past highly alloyed powder metallurgy steels. They are not so nice to sharpen but have pretty long edge retention.

SG2 (aka R2) knives from Sukenari, Shiro Kamo, Ryusen (many are you handled), Kurosaki and many others are worth looking at. SRS15 knives such as Akifusa and Gesshin Kagero are also great.

If you are willing to sharpen a little more often, ginsanko is a nice steel to sharpen and still has decent edge retention. I really like my Tanaka Shigeki ginsan but there are many other great makers.

If you want to dabble in non stainless, you could consider a semi stainless knife. Yoshikane's version of SKD12 is excellent although maybe the profile is a little too flat for easy rock chopping.

I guess I should amend my questionnaire, slightly. I do the pinch grip. However, I just watched my girl prep for lunch, and she uses the finger-point grip. Not sure if that changes things.

Thank you for the list. This gives me a lot to consider.

DG

 

[aporigine]

A 1000/6000 whetstone, similar to this. Y'all are the experts. But my layman mind tells me that with all of the rocking/chopping motion that a knife endures, the wax/glue shouldn't be expected to last very long. And then you have a dangerous weapon that could go flying.

DG

I am curious. What sort of culinary knifework can impart enough energy to a blade to make it fly, other than swinging a butcher’s cleaver?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I guess I should amend my questionnaire, slightly. I do the pinch grip. However, I just watched my girl prep for lunch, and she uses the finger-point grip. Not sure if that changes things.

Thank you for the list. This gives me a lot to consider.

DG

Should be good either way.

 

[Gshep91]

Wash & dry your knife and the handle isn’t going anywhere. Hot glue is pretty sturdy unless you’re banging on the top of the handle TRYING to take it off. Epoxy is even harder to remove.

Go with a nice stainless or semi stainless. All good choices mentioned above so buy with confidence

 

[timebard]

Wa handles are not going to suddenly detach and send your blade flying. I've owned or tried dozens of wa handles knives over the last 5 years, none have even gotten a tiny bit loose let alone fallen off. I intentionally removed one to rehandle a while back and it took heating it in an oven, whacking it repeatedly with wood and a mallet, boiling it, and hammering on it some more before I was able to get it off.

You asked if there's a combo style and the answer is yes, they're called hidden tang westerns. Basically a sculpted wa handle which might have one or no pins. Here's a couple examples - I am personally a fan but they're rare outside of more expensive western makers.

 

[Qapla']

Here's another combo design:
https://www.ichimonji.co.jp/products/detail.php?product_id=397

 

[drrayeye]

As a home cook enthusiast, I started my batterie with an 8" Wusthof Classic Ikon Chef knife. I was given a Seki Magoroku Nakiri when I was in Japan, and later updated it to a Shun santoku. They were my foundation knives--not so differenrt from what you are looking for.

Over the years, I've added knives for specialized tasks, for fun, or just for comparison testing and now have a very diverse grabbable batterie of knives that I can use for most any task. The one profile I wish I had implemented at or near the beginning of my batterie is the Chinese vegetable cleaver. Even a very inexpensive one can do almost anything.

Among my more expensive knives are Japanese artisan knives with wa handles--carbon, stainless, and ginsan--that to me are more specialist enthusiast knives than home cook knives--and, yes, they include both a gyuto and a santoku.

I think you're on the right track. Maybe visit a good knife shop, face to face?

 

[tostadas]

Glued handles are incredibly strong.

At one point, I fitted up a bunch of blades with temporary handles for the purpose of sending out for thinning of the blades and trying to reduce shipping costs. I made them out of literally the lowest quality stuff possible. I drilled giant holes into scraps of redwood fencing I had laying around, and just stuck the blades into them with a little glob of dual-temp hotmelt glue, just enough so that the blade not to move around.

My hope was that after I got them back, I could knock them back off easily with minimal effort. However, they were so hard for me to remove with heating and bashing with a mallet that I ended up simply destroying most of the handles to remove, rather than salvage them. And even then, the glue was very stubborn in coming off. So if you had any concerns about handles "coming apart", don't worry. If there's glue or other adhesive inside, it won't be going anywhere unless you really want it to, and even then, it would likely require some dedicated effort.

 

[Noodle Soup]

I seem to have had much different experience with wa handles than most here.. Virtually all have got loose and come off after varying periods of use. Some time in the past I was informed on this forum that it was my own fault for dropping them in a wood storage block! Never happens with a Western style handle. Then there is the fact a large percentage of wa handles are set up for right handers.
In any case, I have never found it to be a problem to drop a little epoxy in the handles and reglue them.

 

[Demonsguile]

Wa handles are not going to suddenly detach and send your blade flying. I've owned or tried dozens of wa handles knives over the last 5 years, none have even gotten a tiny bit loose let alone fallen off. I intentionally removed one to rehandle a while back and it took heating it in an oven, whacking it repeatedly with wood and a mallet, boiling it, and hammering on it some more before I was able to get it off.

You asked if there's a combo style and the answer is yes, they're called hidden tang westerns. Basically a sculpted wa handle which might have one or no pins. Here's a couple examples - I am personally a fan but they're rare outside of more expensive western makers.

I asked to be convinced and you delivered. If that's what it takes to remove a Wa handle, then I'll go with it. They look better than a western style anyway. Thank you!

DG

 

[Keithpaints]

Check out the Sentan Hap40 on sale at Knives&Stones USA. 189.00 for the 210mm. 65-67 hardness, very thin behind the edge. Nice blade & steel for the price.

 

[Keithpaints]

There are couple schools of thought when suggesting knives comming from cheap tough crappy grind stainless block sets. Not uncommon at all most people buy knife sets from department stores.

One is starter Japanese blade that is quite a bit better. Learned a lot using pass arounds at Culinary school. Tried to find blades that would blow their minds for under 150.00. A lot of money for student when a Mercer complete school set with large knife bag was under 300.00. This forum found some winners. Tanaka Nashiji 240mm G3 steel when they were 120.00 most popular. Kanetsugu Pro M 240mm nice grind comfortable western handle 100.00. I only suggested 240mm because they going into production kitchens.

Knives that are thin behind the edge cut better & are easier to sharpen. Of coarse you don't do stupid things with them. They guide through food. Doesn't mean you have to baby them, but must know basic knife care skills. A lost art in modern society. Save the stupid stuff with your department store knives.

Pictures Kanetsugu Pro M 240. Only used as pass around when teaching. The Red Handle Takamura Santoku around 10 years old used every day my better half. R2 steel nice grind easy to sharpen.

My relatively new Sentan Hap40 210mm
It is stainless clad blade. The Hap40 core steel has a nice looking rather high clad line. It takes on a light patina as seen in photo it's considered semi stainless cutting everything fruits, vegetables & meats. It has a teak Japanese style handle. Its a bargin these days 210mm 189.00

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

Takamura migaki 210 Gyuto and 170 Santoku can make a great intro set. Maybe a little fragile for beginners as they are very thin, but they should be fine as long as you don’t use them to open jars or chop bones.

The SG2 steel is stainless and has very good edge retention. Western handle as well.

They are below $240 per knife so you can save some and invest on a better stone.

Shapton Pro 1000 is a good one that can sharpen SG2 easily. You don’t really need a polishing 6000 grit stone for kitchen knife but you can use your current one for a few light strokes at the end.

 

[daveb]

Tanaka Nashiji 240mm G3 steel when they were 120.00

Someone is showing their age...

What a great value that was.

 

[Keithpaints]

Someone is showing their age...

What a great value that was.

Metal Master D handles real horn. Rough Nashiji not like more refined now. Sharp spines & choil. I would round them on 1X42 belt sander. That's how even to this day like Gensan steel.
Wait till new shipment of Tanakas came in would order all the 240 wipe him out as soon as they came in all shipped to Hawaii. Did that a # of times. Later was using VG10 steel still ordered Tanaka made good quality VG10. Then plastic collars to keep price low had plenty knocked off handles with horn from Stephan Keller would switch these on to Tanakas after that no more Metal Master.

Stopped teaching cuz of covid19
Caught covid once after had first two boster shots. Was very mild almost nothing. This year picked up 3 very sick ladies from airport they caught it in London. I took care of two of them at our house. Janice friend from Big Island now lives in Washington Both had planned to go to Hawaii Island but had to cancel so sick. After three weeks she flew back to Washington state still coughing. I got sick too had not kept up with boster shots fever, all stopped up, very weak never been this sick or seen Jance this bad. Eventually got better now using hand sanitizer & mask when go out. Till I'm eligible for the new boster. Cases are up here elderly folks hit hardest some hospitalized. I'm mid 70's so still a spring chicken

 

[Seemore]

Welcome.

Couple quickies.

Chef Knife (Gyuto) and Santoku are largely redundant - even though one is a tool used by good and better cooks and the other is a santoku. Suggest first purchase of a "good" knife be a gyuto.

I strongly disagree with the inference that a gyuto is for good and better cooks, and a santoku is for …other cooks.
Don’t bend to the pressure here toward large gyutos as the only real cook’s knife. It depends on your space, your typical ingredients, and even more importantly, your aesthetic.
(nothing personal)

 

[blokey]

If you want a peace of mind, JCK Basic are really good, Tamara’s would be a steel upgrade over that. That said Wa Handle are pretty strong like others already said

https://japanesechefsknife.com/collections/kagayaki-basic-es-series