Venev stones

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M1k3

M1k3

Pepperidge Farm's remembers what Matus wrote
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I just received one. Thought I'd start a thread on them for everyone to post their thoughts on them.

Venev 400/800
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400 side
16241804799426434265784445880589.jpg

800 side


Comparison picture of the stone with a Shapton Glass on top.
PXL_20210621_190227088.jpg
PXL_20210621_190030029.jpg


I sharpened my HSC 52100 and a Mercer Millenia on it. Initial thoughts is it's a nice all around stone. Will have to spend more time with it though to say much more.
 
I would not describe them as fast. Even the 100. But I agree with @M1k3, if you have to thin some S110v or something like that, it's hard to imagine a better choice for the price this side of vitrified diamond.

Vitrified diamond stones are the only way out of the diamonds + pressure -> super-deep scratches conundrum I've found. But diamonds + light pressure + like a zillion laps is a decent substitute.

Update: OK, yes, diamond plates are a very good alternative. But I don't think they will last as long as the Venevs under such use.
 
Rangen said:
I would not describe them as fast. Even the 100. But I agree with @M1k3, if you have to thin some S110v or something like that, it's hard to imagine a better choice for the price this side of vitrified diamond.

Vitrified diamond stones are the only way out of the diamonds + pressure -> super-deep scratches conundrum I've found. But diamonds + light pressure + like a zillion laps is a decent substitute.

Update: OK, yes, diamond plates are a very good alternative. But I don't think they will last as long as the Venevs under such use.
Click to expand...
are you shure that it is a Vitrified diamond stone ? I thought it is a resine based diamond stone.
 
Bolek said:
are you shure that it is a Vitrified diamond stone ? I thought it is a resine based diamond stone.
Click to expand...

It is indeed a resin-based stone. I did not intend to imply otherwise. I was saying that they were a really good choice for high-carbide steels, quite possibly the best choice per dollar, unless you were going to spring for vitrified diamond. Buried in all of that was a subtle implication that, while the Naniwa stones are arguably better, it's hard to make the case for them purely on value for the dollar.

I've been trying to pack fewer concepts into each sentence, to avoid confusing readers, but it is a work in progress.
 
The OCB resin is softer than the Naniwa Diamond resin, may have better feel but more prone to wear and gouging if the angle isn't dead on.

Finish is better on the Naniwa resin diamond
cleaner, brighter and more consistent but it also costs more.


All resin diamond/CBN stones load up. They need to be cleaned to cut effectively if loaded significantly (which comes from use)

They also need to be dressed to expose more diamond in the resin. So it's not about just cleaning them, they need the bonding cut up with AlOx or SiC to work best. (Not too coarse or too fine, 200-400 grit range)
 
Some thoughts on these after using them some more.

Pros:
Splash and go. Well, 2-3 splashes or so and go.
Not muddy.
Stays flat.
Speed is consistent.
Edges are really nice straight off the stone.
2 grits at about $100 ($50 per side, which isn't bad).

Cons:
Slower than regular water stones, I'd say roughly the same cutting speed as j-nats (but they don't slow down with high carbide steels)? 🤷‍♂️
They load up. Not extreme, but, they do. Nothing a nagura or higher grit stone can't fix easily.

So far, I'm liking the stone a lot. So much so, my other ones are getting neglected.
 
Has anyone tried the 80/150 version for thinning?
 
M1k3 said:
Some thoughts on these after using them some more.

Pros:
Splash and go. Well, 2-3 splashes or so and go.
Not muddy.
Stays flat.
Speed is consistent.
Edges are really nice straight off the stone.
2 grits at about $100 ($50 per side, which isn't bad).

Cons:
Slower than regular water stones, I'd say roughly the same cutting speed as j-nats (but they don't slow down with high carbide steels)? 🤷‍♂️
They load up. Not extreme, but, they do. Nothing a nagura or higher grit stone can't fix easily.

So far, I'm liking the stone a lot. So much so, my other ones are getting neglected.
Click to expand...
How about tactile feedback?
 
Thanks a lot, @M1k3 !
That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Am used to Chosera / Naniwa Pros, where you feel if the apex has been reached, if the burr has flipped or is getting abraded. The kind of feedback I miss with coarse Shaptons, but is present to some degree with the SG2k.
 
I've been thinking about these for awhile now (something new), if I were to get two what would be the recommended combos and are they worth it for carbon knives, or just stick with my regular synths.
 
I just bought the Phoenix 240/400 and 800/1200. They were 190 shipped. Had the 100/240 in my cart too but removed. The 240 is like 300 JIS. That’s pretty rough. Figured I could cut new secondary bevels with that one. I planned to get the BBB 400, but they aren’t around for long and twice as much as the two stones with four grits that I bought. I am convinced that the BBB stuff is 10x better, but my girl already hates how much I spend on making knives and buying stones.

I have a piece of S90V to make a knife out of, so need something to sharpen it. Plus, my coworker has 40 or so pocket knives and 10-15 are high vanadium steels. So can sharpen for him.

Check out ‘engineers perspective’ on YouTube. He has some excellent videos on the Venev stones and how they compare to plates and BBB.

Not sure they are worth it for carbons. The Phoenix stones are about 1mm of abrasive. But at $50 per grit, basically the same price as a nice 25mm stone. So it would have to wear at less than 1/25 the rate of Shapton pro stones to be worth it for carbons. And they may wear less than that.
 
For good simple steels without high volumes of super hard carbide, no need. Prefer the edges I get off some other Japanese synthetic stones. I think M1ke has the right angle, 100%. Hard carbide and cheap stainless. FWIW magnacut seems better with a diamond edge, as does r2. But both are so Damn wear resistant I haven't had as much practice as I'd like.

The BBB 400 is a metal removing machine. Leaves a clean edge too. Good for butchery. But oh my god expensive. Buying used was a godsend.

I think there’s a tendency to view Japanese synthetic stones as a bit "vanilla". Even I'm guilty of this. But they’re really quite optimized specific tools that do the job very well. I think because they have become the new baseline we try other things against, they seem a little boring. But really they’re quite fantastic. they have the right types of grit, binder, they’re easy to flatten and maintain, and they come in any grit you could possibly want. There are obviously better and worse ones (looking at you King 6000), but I think as a rule they’re all quite, quite usable.

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=magnacut,r2
 
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I have to agree on BBB stones. I got the 1k to check it out and the quality is definitely there, no question. I used it on one of my VG10 knives and just left it with that 1k edge. The edge is very clean. So far this edge has lasted the longest on this knife. I've had this knife forever and used all sorts of stones on it, including other 1k and so far BBB stone has been the best for this particular knife. I definitely want to try BBB 3k now, but like with popular knives I am usually not quick enough.
 
Barmoley said:
I have to agree on BBB stones. I got the 1k to check it out and the quality is definitely there, no question. I used it on one of my VG10 knives and just left it with that 1k edge. The edge is very clean. So far this edge has lasted the longest on this knife. I've had this knife forever and used all sorts of stones on it, including other 1k and so far BBB stone has been the best for this particular knife. I definitely want to try BBB 3k now, but like with popular knives I am usually not quick enough.
Click to expand...

Do you think the 1k is fast enough to cut new bevels quickly? I use a Shapton 120. And if the edge is around 10-15 thousandths, it takes about five minutes to create the burr on both sides at around 15 degrees per side.

I wanted to buy the 400 and 3k, but think the 5k is better overall for my needs. So 1k and 5k would be ideal. But not if it takes long to cut new bevels, as that is what I seem to use my stones for mostly.
 
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