What to expect coming off a Shapton Pro 2000

[RemDog]

I am wondering if my expectations are too high. Would like a reality check. I have been using the Shapton a little bid. It seems like the edge off it is not great. It snags on newspaper. I seem to get a better edge off my Atoma 600 or Atoma 1200. After the Shapton, I strop on my cheapo strop that has no compound on it, then hit the newspaper and it slices beautifully. So, my question is, am I expecting too much? Should I get a good slice right off the SP2k?

I bought a loupe, looked the edge over, couldn't see much of anything really. Not sure what I'm looking for, but at 30k the edge looked pretty good to me. Used my macro on the phone, with the same result...so sent the loupe back.

I really want to like the Shapton. Seems like the consensus is that it is a good stone.

 

[AT5760]

How does it feel when cutting food? I’ve found it’s one of the easiest stones to get a really usable edge from.

 

[NickMinton]

So if I’m understanding your question correctly, an edge directly off the Shapton (no strop) snags on newspaper but if you strop, then it cuts smoothly?

If the above info is true, it’s sounds like you need to spend time with stropping on the Shapton with very light strokes

I personally do both edge leading and then edge trailing strops but there are a lot of opinions on edge trailing vs. edge leading stropping motions

Regardless, the main goal is how the edge feels for you when you’re cutting / cooking. I’ve had great edges that cut through paper & paper towels wonderfully (8-10k) but had trouble with tomato and pepper skins.

This is why you’ll see a lot of people stop stone work somewhere between 2-4k

 

[WCV]

For usable kitchen edges, I really like the Shapton 2K followed by a few light passes on a diamond loaded felt strop. The strop lightly refines the edge without losing the toothy feel of the 2K. Agree with @NickMinton’s comments and would also add that you may just want adjust the amount of stropping you do after the 2K to get the functional edge that works for your cooking/cutting style. Going to higher grits can give you more refined/cleaner edges, but often not better for most work in the kitchen.

 

[pavlobee]

Sounds like a burr is left by the SP2k, removed or straightened by the stropping. Diamond plates seem not to leave so much of a burr on softer steels, which may be why you are are getting good results with your Atomas

 

[Delat]

What kind of steel is the knife? I usually consider snagging on paper to be a sign of debris or burr remnants at the edge. If you’re working with soft stainless then I could see how diamonds might be giving you a cleaner edge unless you’re doing really thorough deburring on the Shapton.

Anyway, I have an SP2K but haven’t used it yet. I get clean edges off my SG1k and I’d expect the SP2K to perform similarly.

 

[Johnsmyname]

I’m also new to sharpening. My Chocera 1000 will leave the knives slicing through newspaper very smoothly with a bit of work. I sharpen, then remove burr with back of a sponge scrubby, then as mentioned above strop with the stone. I don’t get a really nice edge until I do the edge trailing stroping strokes. I’ll do 3-4 each side, then 2-3, then back and forth side to side. I’ll start with very light pressure, but by the time I’m done it’s feather light. Like I said I’m new at sharpening so don’t know if this is correct or not, but I feel I’m in a very similar place as you and I found this method easy and effective.

It was suggested to me on here to get really good on the stones before I start using a strop. I feel like the strop and compound is a little bit of a cheat code and it will be harder finding the proper results/progression if I use them in the beginning.

 

[Stevem627]

I have a SP2k and it’s a great stone to end on for most knives and uses. I think you’re just not removing the burr and even when lined up at first it delicate and immediately goes south. I use a light pull through an old cork or a felt block followed by extremely light stropping. The problem I have with highly refined edges is they don’t get the bite needed for tomatoes and pepper skins.

 

[RemDog]

Thank you all for the quick responses. I will try to answer the questions here. Without stropping I get snags, I agree, I may have to do more stropping strokes on the shapton before going to the newspaper. The knives I have been using are cheap soft steel dollar store knives and Henckels twins. I picked up a few on ebay just to practice on and gift to friends when I'm done with them. I have not used the knives on food yet. I'm just practicing. They very well could be fantastic on food.

I will work on my technique and do the edge trailing strokes before going to the paper test. I like the feel of the Shapton alot more than the the diamond plates, so hoping to get to a better with it.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

OP, I agree with the others that it sounds like a de-burring issue. Don't be discouraged, that's the biggest issue we all have to one extent or another. Your Atoma's may be both raising a burr faster and removing more of it faster. We often have to adjust based onthe specific stone.

I’m also new to sharpening. My Chocera 1000 will leave the knives slicing through newspaper very smoothly with a bit of work. I sharpen, then remove burr with back of a sponge scrubby, then as mentioned above strop with the stone. I don’t get a really nice edge until I do the edge trailing stroping strokes. I’ll do 3-4 each side, then 2-3, then back and forth side to side. I’ll start with very light pressure, but by the time I’m done it’s feather light. Like I said I’m new at sharpening so don’t know if this is correct or not, but I feel I’m in a very similar place as you and I found this method easy and effective.

It was suggested to me on here to get really good on the stones before I start using a strop. I feel like the strop and compound is a little bit of a cheat code and it will be harder finding the proper results/progression if I use them in the beginning.

I know a lot of folks are adamantly opposed to strops but I think that is nonsense, especially starting out. There are no cheat codes in sharpening. I know that sentiment gets tossed around a lot, especially in the EDC community but it's silly. There are only good edges. If your stone work never gets good enough to produce really keen edges without a strop but you like the edge and performs well then who cares?

Now, the sentiment behind improving on the stone and not just relying on strops is sound. That is folks conveying that the more burr your remove on the stones the better. This is good advice. But don't let it preclude your from using strops. In anyway! Especially as you're learning. Spend your time focused on angles and raising the burr and the end result of your edge. As you get good, consistent results, over time, then start thinking more about weaning off the strops.

No one should feel like some kind of lesser sharpener for using a strop. I still use them fairly often because they're quick and effective.

As I've said before there are two paths of sharpening. The performance path which is focused on good performing and lasting edges and the pride path which is focused on extremely refined edges that may or may not always perform well in the kitchen. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the latter for sure and if you want to jump on that path, by all means do so, just understand the difference and the end expectations.

Oh, and I don't like using sponges for strops.

 

[RemDog]

Would you guys recommend a felt block to help with deburring? Don't get me wrong, my stop does a great job.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Would you guys recommend a felt block to help with deburring? Don't get me wrong, my stop does a great job.

Within reason, tools rarely trump technique.

If your strop does a great job then why change?

 

[Nemo]

As others have mentioned, it sounds like a residual burr.

Can you outline the steps you take to minimise burr formation and remove the burr?

 

[panda]

u have dingleberries from yo stone. clean it up with lighter wipes.

 

[RemDog]

As others have mentioned, it sounds like a residual burr.

Can you outline the steps you take to minimise burr formation and remove the burr?

This is my whole procedure...

1) Use the Atoma 600, raise a burr on first side. Deburr, raise burr on the second side, deburr. I deburr between the sides to ensure I can tell the second side I have raised a burr, vs. just the burr has flipped over.
2) same as above, with the Atoma 1200.
3) Same as above with the SP2k, except I can't feel a burr. I try to do equal pass on both sides, then deburr, usually edge leading, but have been doing edge trailing and getting better results.

then I got to my naked strop. Followed by my CBN strop 1 micron spray.

I have found going off any of the stones to the strop, I get a workable edge. So, in reality, I could have bought just the Atoma 600 and a strop, and been fine for my kitchen knives. While I appreciate the level of attention and care I see people putting into sharpening and getting a perfect edge, my view is more "fit for purpose" with a caveat...I want it slicing paper nicely.

 

[Nemo]

@RemDog

People mean different tings when they say "Deburr".

When you say "Deburr", what do you actually do?

 

[RemDog]

very light passes, usually edge leading.

 

[cotedupy]

If your edge snags on newspaper because of residual bits of *whatever*, but is cleaned up just fine after you strop it... then those same residual bits of *whatever* will just dissolve as soon as the knife hits a board. The same reason that pulling an edge through a bit of wood or cork after sharpening works. So tbh, in practical terms - I really wouldn't fret it!

But if you particularly want a super clean edge, straight of an SP2k, and without stropping, then the same rule applies as with anything else: Repeated, alternating, full-length, zero-pressure, edge-leading strokes, at a steady angle.

(And it's easier to achieve if the stone surface is fresh, not glazed).

 

[Nemo]

Have you tried @Sailor 's reducing pressure method? Look at the knifeplanet.net sharpening school video 3. Look at the other ones too while you are there.

In my hands, this significantly reduces the burr. I often feel (or see) bits of burr break off in the lighterstagesof pressure. I then use feather-light edge leading strokes to further abrade the burr followed by a longitudinal deburring stroke along the edge. FWIW, I drag thr edge GENTLY through a cork or hard felt.

There are further levels to deburring expertise but this one was a quantum leap in my own sharpening skill progression.

 

[RemDog]

Have you tried @Sailor 's reducing pressure method? Look at the knifeplanet.net sharpening school video 3. Look at the other ones too while you are there.

In my hands, this significantly reduces the burr. I often feel (or see) bits of burr break off in the lighterstagesof pressure. I then use feather-light edge leading strokes to further abrade the burr followed by a longitudinal deburring stroke along the edge. FWIW, I drag thr edge GENTLY through a cork or hard felt.

There are further levels to deburring expertise but this one was a quantum leap in my own sharpening skill progression.

Thanks. Tried knifeplanet.net, found lesson 3, but no video. I will keep poking around.

 

[stringer]

Thanks. Tried knifeplanet.net, found lesson 3, but no video. I will keep poking around.

Here is a YouTube playlist with the whole series

 

[refcast]

Strop motion high angle (like 45 degrees each side) on smooth plastic anything. Slice into plastic a bit. The burr will curl up or get pushed to one side. Repeat and sharpen lightly, repeats until big clingy burr is gone. I've been able to slice paper off just about every synthetic stone so it should be doable on this .. I have owned the 1000 and 120 pro and 500 glass

 

[camocf]

Sounds like you still have a burr. If you shine a flashlight from the spine down to the edge of the of the knife (on both sides) you may be able to see light reflecting on the burr. One technique I’ve used for a stubborn burr is to do a high angle grind edge leading pass (think around 45 degrees) with extremely light pressure. Then I’ll back sharpen with alternating passes at the original angle to get rid of the micro bevel created when removing the burr.

 

[mengwong]

If your edge snags on newspaper because of residual bits of *whatever*, but is cleaned up just fine after you strop it... then those same residual bits of *whatever* will just dissolve as soon as the knife hits a board.

Footnoting,

http://knifegrinders.com.au/SET/Chopping_Boards.pdf

(Recently posted in another thread, re-sharing here)