Why all of the hype around Aoto?

[Miyamoto Musashi]

From what I’ve read and based on my own experience, it’s not a fantastic polishers and there is a large variance from stone to stone?

I’m not knocking on Aoto, and as far as naturals go, I have a long way to go. Just want to learn why they are so coveted. Do you think it’s mainly due to low supply? Would love to hear from the most elite stoners.

 

[musicman980]

There are a lot of bad aotos out there unfortunately. Too soft, too thirsty, too scratchy, bleh. On these forums the good ones are most coveted for their kitchen-based edges rather than their polishes. Traditionally though they were the quintessential working man’s stone in Japan.

 

[inferno]

I probably wouldn't use one even if i got one for free.

in the low/mid grit range synths do things much faster and cheaper. and you know what you get. exactly.

jnats are good for finishing imo and thats it. same with coticules.

 

[Rangen]

Aotos are often really easy to use, and can make their own slurry just from putting a knife on them. They're an easy stone for beginners to understand. Plus, playing in the mud is just fun.

I admit, though, that I've sidelined my aotos, and my Tsushima bench stone has entirely usurped their place in the sequence.

 

[4wa1l]

I've been curious about these too. I picked up a cheaper narrow aoto to try one.

It is coarser than my other jnats bur also seems to have wide distribution of particle size. I'm a very average polisher but to me as echoed above it is not well suited for this and leaves some stray coarse scratches almost at a 500 grit. But then when used for the edge it feels much finer but still very aggressive. More like an agressive 3000 synthetic. It's not easy to see in the picture but mine has many small red/brown inclusions across the surface that I think might be releasing the coarse grits. I like the edges off it and am keen to test it as a nagura type stone on finer synths.

Edited to add it is also thirsty and muddier than my other jnats. Self slurries quickly too.

 

[Rangen]

in the low/mid grit range synths do things much faster and cheaper. and you know what you get. exactly.

This is true, but I'm in it for the tactile feel and the fun factor.

 

[refcast]

The hard aoto with diamond slurry can be pretty great polishers.

Aoto are the most famous midgrit jnat, so that's why. Uh

Read kiyonds blog. He has more info about aoto, and reviews on like 30 different aoto with pictures and video

 

[MowgFace]

I swear the hype is nowhere where it was 5-10 years ago.

 

[Cliff]

Well I still love mine. It puts a great edge on a kitchen knife. I'm less drawn to the contrast for polishing, where there are more options.

 

[Sicknote]

I got three of them, and only one is suitable of polishing with nice contrast. The last one i got produces deep scratches because it seems to have bad inclusions. If i sharpen with it, it is really fast for a jnat and leaves a nice edge and i could ez finish up with my hideriyama. Ill never get another one again, if i could chose i would rather go synth or take an aizu or so

 

[Marcelo Amaral]

From my limited experience, i've seen and used stones called aoto that are completely different beasts.

Usually green aotos are finer and much less abrasive being more similar to Atagoyamas.

Green Aoto (a2283)

Selected Japanese natural sharpening stones Toishi, Handmade by Best Blade smiths Japanese Knives, Razors and Tools

www.japanesenaturalstones.com

FS: Green Aoto, Ohira Renge Suita

1. Large Green Aoto. Those are no longer carried by Maksim (JNS), but are awesome natural stones. The stone is a bit finer than the Red Aoto, I'd say in the 3-4k range. It is great touch up stone, it is fast and it leaves very uniform finish. Sides are lacquered, the dark spots are water. PRICE=...

www.kitchenknifeforums.com

Red aotos seem to be, in general, a bit softer than green aotos, but also more similar to Atagoyamas than "real aotos".

Red Aoto (a2026)

Selected Japanese natural sharpening stones Toishi, Handmade by Best Blade smiths Japanese Knives, Razors and Tools

www.japanesenaturalstones.com

What i call real aotos would be the ones that are usually called blue aotos, but even among those there are horrible and excelent specimens. Some hard, others very soft.

When i started using these real aotos, i was told by an expert on jnats that these aotos have layers and the stones should be cut in a way so that the working surface would show various layers (just like end grain wood boards). Unfortunately, it seems that some aotos are cut so that the there is only one layer visible, paralel to the working surface (alongside the grain) because this kind of cut produce wider working surfaces given a thinner slab, extracted from the mine. The result of such cuts where the working surface shows only one layer is that the stone feels softer and muddier, and would be much slower. The picture below shows the side of one well-cut aoto. Notice how the layers are running top-bottom.

Anyway, the ultimate test comes from using the stone. There's no substitute for that.
My opinion on aotos is that a good one leaves a toothier edge and is much faster than most jnats. So, if you are into jnats, i would definitely try one.

 

[Cliff]

I have two hard blue aotos, which are quite similar, and a softer brownish, greenish one. The blues are similar to Aizu. It doesn't really make sense to have both.

 

[Marcelo Amaral]

I have had two Aizus, but both felt different from my blue aotos, which are faster, coarser and more abrasive than both aizus i tried.
Then again, blue aotos can be very different.

 

[Olsen]

From my limited experience, i've seen and used stones called aoto that are completely different beasts.

Usually green aotos are finer and much less abrasive being more similar to Atagoyamas.

Green Aoto (a2283)

Selected Japanese natural sharpening stones Toishi, Handmade by Best Blade smiths Japanese Knives, Razors and Tools

www.japanesenaturalstones.com

FS: Green Aoto, Ohira Renge Suita

1. Large Green Aoto. Those are no longer carried by Maksim (JNS), but are awesome natural stones. The stone is a bit finer than the Red Aoto, I'd say in the 3-4k range. It is great touch up stone, it is fast and it leaves very uniform finish. Sides are lacquered, the dark spots are water. PRICE=...

www.kitchenknifeforums.com

Red aotos seem to be, in general, a bit softer than green aotos, but also more similar to Atagoyamas than "real aotos".

Red Aoto (a2026)

Selected Japanese natural sharpening stones Toishi, Handmade by Best Blade smiths Japanese Knives, Razors and Tools

www.japanesenaturalstones.com

What i call real aotos would be the ones that are usually called blue aotos, but even among those there are horrible and excelent specimens. Some hard, others very soft.

You are right. The red and green aotos Maksim had 7-8 years ago were not real aotos but were atagoyamas from the akapin layer. I think he just called them aotos because there were similar in "grit" and feeling to aotos. I know as I have both aotos and a red and green "aoto" from way back

 

[Miyamoto Musashi]

I've been curious about these too. I picked up a cheaper narrow aoto to try one.

View attachment 184982

It is coarser than my other jnats bur also seems to have wide distribution of particle size. I'm a very average polisher but to me as echoed above it is not well suited for this and leaves some stray coarse scratches almost at a 500 grit. But then when used for the edge it feels much finer but still very aggressive. More like an agressive 3000 synthetic. It's not easy to see in the picture but mine has many small red/brown inclusions across the surface that I think might be releasing the coarse grits. I like the edges off it and am keen to test it as a nagura type stone on finer synths.

Edited to add it is also thirsty and muddier than my other jnats. Self slurries quickly too.

There are a lot of bad aotos out there unfortunately. Too soft, too thirsty, too scratchy, bleh. On these forums the good ones are most coveted for their kitchen-based edges rather than their polishes. Traditionally though they were the quintessential working man’s stone in Japan.

I’m out of town at the moment but when I get back I’ll post some pictures/the finish on a project knife I have coming in the mail soon. Would love to hear people’ thoughts. It’s very thirsty and muddy.

 

[Miyamoto Musashi]

I swear the hype is nowhere where it was 5-10 years ago.

Were Aoto amongst the first natural stones that the western demographic became familiar with?

 

[Miyamoto Musashi]

The hard aoto with diamond slurry can be pretty great polishers.

Aoto are the most famous midgrit jnat, so that's why. Uh

Read kiyonds blog. He has more info about aoto, and reviews on like 30 different aoto with pictures and video

I googled “Kiyonds blog” but couldn’t find anything. Could you share a link?

 

[Marcelo Amaral]

You are right. The red and green aotos Maksim had 7-8 years ago were not real aotos but were atagoyamas from the akapin layer. I think he just called them aotos because there were similar in "grit" and feeling to aotos. I know as I have both aotos and a red and green "aoto" from way back

Maksim is a great seller and has always pointed this out. I have also come across to a red and a green aoto from him that i like.

 

[refcast]

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-m&sxsrf=ALiCzsYAwWCdxRwG99bkjki7N33eh64ljA:1655674453563&q=%E9%9D%92%E7%A0%A5%E7%9F%B3+site:https://kiyond.blogspot.com/&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi_haz9u7r4AhV5JUQIHRmcBd8QBXoECAoQAQ

森砥石さん

クラシックギター製作家　田中清人

kiyond.blogspot.com

Kiyond.blogspot is the one

 

[MowgFace]

Were Aoto amongst the first natural stones that the western demographic became familiar with?

They were one of the first few that I heard of.

Aoto, Suita, Asagi were the first names I remember hearing when I got in the game.

I specifically remember reading a post that was titled something like This is why an Aoto edge is best for Gyutos, and was about someone machine gunning onions or something.

Back when I was trying to figure out “what grit to sharpen my chefs knife” the Aoto idea intrigued me but no way was I going to spend THAT much on a stone.
Got me into looking for synthetic Aotos. Like the famous synthetic Blue Aoto that was very hit or miss on the forums.

Close to a decade later, I’m sitting on an Aizu, Both Red and Blue JNS synthetic Aotos, as well as a Khao Men. Maybe all of the propaganda has got to me, or maybe there is something to the grit range. No real Aoto tho.

 

[cotedupy]

ME! PICK ME!! I KNOW THE ANSWER!!!

Is it because unlike the overwhelming majority of Japanese natural stones they're actually ok at abrading hard steel...?


[Puts more serious, non-flippant hat on]

I actually rather liked the few Aoto I've tried. They feel very nice, sharpen relatively well, and leave good, bitey edges. I also find they do interesting things for polishing; while they leave a noticeable scratch pattern, underneath that is quite a high shine (notably moreso than other stones around the same 'grit' level), and they can be very good in a progression to help highlight banding in cladding.

The big reason though is this:

My opinion on aotos is that a good one leaves a toothier edge and is much faster than most jnats.

And if you absolutely had to use a jnat for sharpening a kitchen knife, then an Aoto is probably your best bet.

 

[Pie]

The one I have is relatively easy and enjoyable to use. Maybe the average ones are not the greatest polishers, but I’m sure they exist. It’s great for edges, as the scratch pattern other have mentioned might hint at. I believe I ended up with a good one that’s not too hard and not too soft, cuts well and has a somewhat tighter grit consistency.

I also wanted one since the beginning of my jnat journey, both due to hype and seemingly appropriate for kitchen edges. 15 stones later I finally get one. Granted other stones I’ve found may do a better job prepolishing or creating grabby edges, but the whole package is fun, useful and quite satisfying.

Oh, and they smell quite different from other jnat. It’s all part of the mystique and enjoyment, imo.

Big, slightly scratchy contrast, for good measure.

 

[musicman980]

This is a sword quality aoto that produces a scratch free, hyper contrast finish. This is at the very top end of what aoto can do, but unfortunately I’ve never seen another aoto like it.

 

[Sicknote]

Damn i wish that my aoto would be like that. I got two redish aotos, one produces a very uniform scratch pattern, the other one is the one with inclusions which will scratch too much. The other one is a real hard aoto, barely mud and produces no contrast at all. That one is cool if you wanna do a mirrorpolish

 

[4phantom]

the soft coarse aotos with suji are pretty ****, they're like 1-2k grit range with no real abrasive power and lots of scratchy particles. there are exceptions of course - a well known case are kouzaki aoto which are known to be much finer and harder than standard

 

[cotedupy]

This is a sword quality aoto that produces a scratch free, hyper contrast finish. This is at the very top end of what aoto can do, but unfortunately I’ve never seen another aoto like it.

View attachment 185174 View attachment 185175 View attachment 185176

I can well imagine that an Aoto sans scratches is a first rate polishing stone... on the more normal versions I've tried you can tell that underneath they're doing something special.

 

[Pie]

This is a sword quality aoto that produces a scratch free, hyper contrast finish. This is at the very top end of what aoto can do, but unfortunately I’ve never seen another aoto like it.

View attachment 185174 View attachment 185175 View attachment 185176

I’ve come to the conclusion @musicman980 is some sort of wizard. A wizard with amazing stones.