Why do you hate santokus?

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I don’t understand the thread title… Chicks love santokus.
 
Now ***** Santokus all you want but leave Nakiris out of this! 😶

It's funny though... most Santokus and Bunkas I really like I wouldn't even think buying a Gyuto of the same series... Kaji-Bei Migaki would be a no go, would he make Gyutos (I've not seen any, but I've not searched for them neither)... M. Kurosaki Bunka, never much liked his Gyutos... Futana S3, don't like the Gyuto shape.

End of the day I prefer a Gyuto... except when I prefer a Santoku or a Bunka. 🤷‍♂️

It'a tidal thing or something...
 
Santoku, bunka, funayuki, tiny gyuto there all the same. That is to say no good for alot of tasks and not the best at anything in particular, but fun to use none the less. There's not one task I can think of that makes me think "this would be so much easier if I had a santoku" or any knife in the 180 range that is to high at the heel. A 180 petty with just enough height to make board work comfortable is a different story
 
Just give me a thin blade, a bit tall and a hard sharp edge. I don't really care about the name so much.

AND, make sure the handle fits my hand well enough for great stability. Few people seem to talk about "stable in the hand", but it is an issue with skinny handles.
 
honestly I’ve always loved the profile of santokus so no hate here. Got an enso hd prep knife which is basically a santoku, and I’m on a quest to acquire every catcheside of extreme dimensions that I can, and they normally end up looking like a santoku. Great size for home cooks since we’re normally only prepping a few items at a time versus tens of pounds of produce like the pros do. But the fun geometry seems to be found on 240+ so gotta catch them all right?
 
Santokus are quite cool, but they don’t find a place in my kitchen. The main reason for that is that I prefer lengths of ~240 mm. Partly because I have big hands and other part is that I find that 240 mm is the most versatile length for the food I cook. The only times I feel that I need to reach for different knifes are breaking down poultry/fish and sometimes to slice some cooked meat, 240mm is short sometimes.

That being said I have been using a Nakiri recently for some types of prep and I enjoy it a lot. I am slightly faster in some things with it, but in others, like moving cut produce across the cutting board, I am slower.

I could use a santoku/bunka instead of the nakiri I guess, perhaps there’s not much of a difference… I tend to think of santokus as smaller gyutos, so I feel that they are redundant given that I have gyutos and really like them.

Well this are just my thoughts, but that’s what the OP asked for 🙂
 
The Santoku was my gateway drug, sorry, knife.
The Tanaka 3rd down was my first proper Japanese knife and is still one of my favourite tools, Blue 2 steel, gets scary sharp. The Shig above it has such a flat profile I don’t ever need a nakiri. The little ko-santoku at the bottom, I picked up in TK Maxx and is one of the most useful little knive I own.
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Aidan said:
The Santoku was my gateway drug, sorry, knife.
The Tanaka 3rd down was my first proper Japanese knife and is still one of my favourite tools, Blue 2 steel, gets scary sharp. The Shig above it has such a flat profile I don’t ever need a nakiri. The little ko-santoku at the bottom, I picked up in TK Maxx and is one of the most useful little knive I own.
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Agree my wife has....this little 4" cutco santoku and its a cool size....tall enough to pinch, the sensation is very similar to using the heel of a chef with zero heft of the length involved. Great at the table for cutting and serving salmon or a fillet (i.e. no need to break out the big 10 inch...yo wife already knows what your packing) 😕
 
And one of the best value knives out there is Robert Herder’s Santoku. An excellent rocker
B6F1D092-C341-424C-8D4E-54F578F40DE5.jpeg
 
whoops, preparing lunch today and I realized I lied, sorry. I actually own two, can't believe I forgot about this little guy. I actually use it more than the other, most often when I'm preparing something small and quick, usually involving breakfast or lunch. It is a 140mm moly Misonoo.
lil-misono.jpg
 
Mr Nagao from Hiromoto made an excellent 190mm santoku with AS core. Not deadly flat. Some upswing to the tip. A very versatile little knife. A santoku you could use for 'guillotine and glide' forward slicing. But indeed, the only one I'm aware of.
 
Been using the Sakai Kikumori Yugiri for a while now, it is basically a large santoku/bunka, 215mm edge length and 55mm tall works really well.
 
I don't hate santokus but don't use them because they are mostly too short. Also, the tip is a usually a tiny bit low. I do like a fairly flat profiled gyuto but with a slightly higher tip than a santoku.
 
We're basically going into a circle from the beginning of this thread. And I just can't believe how stupid this is.

Not long enough - tip not alright - then obviously you don't want a Santoku. That's alright : it's full of knives that are not Santokus out there, find your owns.

But why would you want a typical Santoku to be 210-240mm long? Then it's a Gyuto. A rarer shape, but not uncommon at all, and they'll probably fix most folks issues with the tip as well in still NOT being Santokus.

Of course, from market pressure there are some longer "anomalies" proposed by some J makers of those shorter kinds like Bunka, Santoku and Nakiri. The most obvious form being many a K-tip Gyutos - there are your longer Bunkas, but possibly height won't suit you.

Anything where there is a demand is bound to sell, so I'm alright with that, but I think the very core of such an idea is only applicable to Nakiris. I wouldn't particularly want one longer than say 190mm, but I understand that if one would like THAT beyond the typical lengths there is absolutely no choices that can compare to it except cleavers, and it's not the same thing at all.

But longer Santokus or longer Bunkas are already there. They have their own designation though: (K-Tip) (some) Gyutos. I don't know what good it'd do to make long Santokus of the most typical shapes. The fact they're not made is quite telling. It's not just a question of a women/home cook market share. It's just basically a stupid idea because Gyutos of all shapes exist to fill pretty much any demand. But Santoku-ish Guytos there's plenty of that... just as there are rather plenty Santokus of the longest iterations that could easily pass for Gyutos - would suffice for them to be claimed as such and nobody would say a thing except that it's Santoku-ish.

So many members pointing out they are not long enough... I mean, I think so many folks here have penile obsession over things that are not IT.

I care more of the tip argument because that's really something that can hinder someone in how he likes to use knives. But then again, dismissing Santokus is okay then, but "dislike" or "hate" are way too strong ideas that just lead us nowhere at all. They're out there, lot's of them. They're just not called Santokus. It's surprising that the most popular format is basically the format that has all those complaining completely blinded from the fact that they are there, if not the common shape of Gyutos. Ask a J maker to make a 240mm Santoku and he'll probably be as unthrilled as anyone could be... or he'll tell you he already makes pretty much of one but doesn't consider it a Santoku for the same unthrilling reasons.
 
Pikehaus said:
Santokus, I definitely think a part of the unpopularity is that 95% of them, just like nakiris, aren't made above 180mm.
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...and yet bunkas are far more popular. And a santoku, as I was recently reminded, is just a grinder away from being a bunka.
 
Wouldn’t a 210-240mm Santoku essentially be a jiro, or bullnose mazaki? I feel like they exist, but people don’t really identify them as santokus. I would because noted earlier in the thread santoku feels like a dirty word to many collectors in the holy house of cow sword.
 
mgardiner said:
...and yet bunkas are far more popular. And a santoku, as I was recently reminded, is just a grinder away from being a bunka.
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I'm not entirely agreeing on that. From first experience, that is...

Santokus usually ARE tapering all along the spine. Bunkas generally are made more of a stagnant thickness at spine until after the K-tip, and there most will go to a very thin primary-bevel tip where many Santokus might keep a bit more restraint there. Since no curve down is involved at the spine, Bunkas would also tend to keep a tiny bit closer to heel height throughout, unless of a slanted profile, and there are many of those so not so much of a given as simply a general observation.

BUT constant spine thickness (unless Sanjo-like iterations where most of the tapering would happen before mid blade) until after the K drop is the defining characteristic. It does make similar profiles feel different in handling, a bit heavier and more forward, with a Nakiri-like consistence in cutting feel along the blade EXCEPT the tip.
 
Naftoor said:
Wouldn’t a 210-240mm Santoku essentially be a jiro, or bullnose mazaki? I feel like they exist, but people don’t really identify them as santokus. I would because noted earlier in the thread santoku feels like a dirty word to many collectors in the holy house of cow sword.
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Just have a look at Masashi Guytos - the generally presented ones, I heard he's going into new lines, don't know if they're out yet, mostly new steels or different finishes I think but he might modify the general profile as well.

Otherwise yeah Mazaki bullnose could fit. Or the general Toyama profile as I experienced it, higher tip more Gyuto-like but quite Santoku-ish.

Could look at Takeda - won't exactly call them Santoku-ish from the curve of the spine, but yeah his Gyutos tend to feature the lower tips of Santokus, some semblance of profile, and they are sure units that translates the generally wider blade of a Santoku against Gyutos of a same length (say 180mm) proportionally with the length... and then some. As I said they're not called Santoku, might not even be so Santoku-ish at first glance, but variations of Gyutos exist that exactly both nail a longer form with a more versatile tip configuration where applicable.
 
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