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adam_Cullen

adam_Cullen

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
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Location
Nashville, TN
Hello hello,

I'll be starting my first stage here next week and I am looking for a knife to travel with to replace my Kramer Carbon. I love the knife, don't get me wrong, I just feel the way the knife tapers is good for my home use.. but not for my bag. I am looking on CKTG and Japanny currently, but do you have any other places you think I should check?

Looking for Gyuto/Bunka/Kiritsuke styles with a wa/octagonal handle anywhere from 185mm-210mm. Can't say i'm 100% confident in what i should be looking for either honestly. i know what works for home cooking, but professional is a different story.
 
I'd suggest you at least have a beater... during a stage you often get the unwanted/undesirable jobs that can really punish a Japanese knife...like cutting up many lobsters... cutting directly on stainless steel counters...you have to be ready to do it all...and however they tell you to do it...a stage is no place to correct whomever is telling you how things are done...

Don't drop more than you can afford on the knife...in fact spend the least you can. You will most likely find what you prefer in a knife is going to change as you gain experience.

And if you show up with a fancy and very expensive knife...make sure you have the knife skills to match it...

Take care

Jeff
 
Thank you! here are my answers to that questionnaire:

LOCATION
What country are you in?
- USA

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
- Gyuto/Bunka/Kiritsuke

Are you right or left handed?
- Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
- Japanese preferable, but if the price and steel is right, i could go western. Just concerned about weight and fatigue in the long run.

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
- probably 180-210mm

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
- i could do stainless or Carbon. if i go with a carbon core, i would like it to have stainless cladding for extra protection.

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
- $165.. i would also be looking for a Saya.

KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
- Professional

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
- looking for an all-rounder, but veg and meat mainly. i am sure ill be doing fish eventually.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
- i'm using my Kramer Carbon in the roll at the moment. worried that in a professional kitchen it may be too bulky.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
- Pinch grip for sure!

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
- I mainly do push cuts and slices... with the occasional tip drag.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
- rounded spine/choil for sure. i like a centered balance point personally. open to heavy and light knives.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
- ease of sharpening, good feel on a board, forgiving i think would be a good place to start. open to all suggestions.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
- if it can go a week of professional use without needing a tune up.. i would call that a success. not too sure what to expect.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
- wood or synthetic

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
- Yes!
If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
 
I’d stay away from k-tips because in my experience, you will tip those in unfamiliar kitchens or stations and they take a lot longer to properly fix. I’ve had this happen six or seven times from bumping a raised cold well or something on the counter, knocking it off the board, someone looking at it and dropping it, digging into a board and snapping it off, and several incidents with causes unknown.
 
In that budget range I'm struggling to come up with a whole lot of suggestions, especially if you want western handle.. The Kaeru has already been mentioned, but you won't have the saya with it for that price. JCK has a handful, but the Sukenari has been out of stock for a while, and the cheaper stuff (Inazuma series) I wouldn't necessarily recommend. If you're willing to go western handle there's a few more options, but again, most will be in the 'you can get a better knife for not that much more money'-category. The Deep Impact on JCK has always gotten good reviews from people that used them; that might be an option if you want to go western. There's other classics on there like the Carbonext or Misono, but those will be in the 'definitly benefits from thinning out of the box' category.
Then there's the issue that it might be nice to also have a real beater like a Victorinox alongside it.
 
I've never worked in a professional kitchen so take this a large bag of salt but I would agree that not sinking too much into your starting knives seems like a good strategy so with that in mind...

https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=95571
The above is also available in a 210.


Tsunehisa (or Harukaze) in Ginsan/G3 from CKTG would also be high on my list for consideration.

Here's a western-handled Tsunehisa in VG10:
https://realsharpknife.com/collections/gyuto/products/tsunehisa-45-layer-damascus-vg10-210mm-gyuto
Now sayas, I'm not sure about. I know Dustin from the link above sells some but I don't about the fitment compatibility.

Anyway, just a couple ideas.
 
Oh one thing to note about the Kaeru. The spine and choil are definitely not rounded out of the box. I'd even say that it had the most square edges of the many knives I've tried. A little bit of time with coarse/med sandpaper can tidy it up easily though.

But at the same time, I cant think of many examples in this price range with fully rounded edges
 
I guess things have really changed in a restaurant. I only worked in one when I was 16 back around 1968. I made money to help pay for my car. I worked part time and I was a dishwasher and salad maker. I had 1 knife and it was a big Henckels. The restaurant supplied the knife back then. It might have been 11.5 inches. It was a little fuller at the tip than my 12-inch Henckels I own now.
 
trying to decide between these two based on my style and what ive read about them... leaning towards the bunka. i liked the Kaeru Kasumi Gyuto, but the $195 price point was a bit much for me.

Bunka:
https://www.**************.com/kapssa18cu2.html
Gyuto:
https://www.**************.com/kapsgy211.html
 
If you are open to a not-typically-Gyuto geometry, the Zakuri Tosagata Bocho (180mm) seems pretty interesting, and the price is right IMO for the package. Definitely not a refined f&f, but that can be improved upon. Also, if JKI has something that fits your needs (the 240mm Gesshin stainless was also mentioned above), they are just an amazing shop and great people to work with and support.

Zakuri 180mm Blue #1 Kurouchi Tosagata Bocho
 
whatever you buy, for the price of two frappuccinos also get an 8" or 10" fibrox-handle victorinox, $30 - $45, preferably with a non-black handle -- and then see whether or not you surprise yourself with how often you reach for it instead, in that setting. put another way: "in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, ..."
 
jsph said:
whatever you buy, for the price of two frappuccinos also get an 8" or 10" fibrox-handle victorinox, $30 - $45, preferably with a non-black handle -- and then see whether or not you surprise yourself with how often you reach for it instead, in that setting. put another way: "in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, ..."
Click to expand...
This is true. As much as I use a more expensive knife, I still have a cheaper "beater" knife handy.
 
What about a used Henckels 4star off eBay. You can get an 8 inch for $40 and probably $50 for a 10 inch. I wonder how they would compare to the Victorinox?
I had an old Victorinox red handled paring knife many years ago I thought the Henckels 4star paring knife was better.
 
jsph said:
whatever you buy, for the price of two frappuccinos also get an 8" or 10" fibrox-handle victorinox, $30 - $45, preferably with a non-black handle -- and then see whether or not you surprise yourself with how often you reach for it instead, in that setting. put another way: "in the topsy-turvy world of heavy rock, ..."
Click to expand...
Just curious, why a non-black handle?
 
coxhaus said:
What about a used Henckels 4star off eBay. You can get an 8 inch for $40 and probably $50 for a 10 inch. I wonder how they would compare to the Victorinox?
I had an old Victorinox red handled paring knife many years ago I thought the Henckels 4star paring knife was better.
Click to expand...
The victorinox is better in every way (I own both). Vic has better profile, balance, grind, price and doesnt have an annoying bolster, allowing you to sharpen the entire edge when needed. I find the edge retention on the Vic vs Henckels to be very similar.

I still consider the Victorinox 8" to be one of the best knives under $100.
 
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1. agree totally versus cheap henckels. versus mid-range wusthof, especially wusthof classic, it's more even, particularly cuz of distal taper and some other little features, but you'd want to get the half-bolster wustof, and now you're talking at least 3x - 6x the price of the victorinox, when the whole point being made was that you could add the victorinox to your kit for an almost imperceptible few bucks. you _can_ get the 9" wusthof classic half-bolster for a pretty decent price sometimes, but, again, i meant to _not_ steer our poster away from whatever central knives of interest being suggested, but just to say that you can add a victorinox super-cheap and see how often that takes care of business.

2. why colour handle?

like stretchy pants -- is for fun!!

also: less likely to get stolen and claimed to not have been stolen. gurr...

(also: if you really wanted to, the handle colours are coded to avoid cross-contamination, e.g., blue = fish, red = meat, but that's getting too serious and professional-sounding already.)

also #3, back to number 1: these are actually extremely good knives, much better than the term "beater" might suggest -- even the spine is... well, not exactly rounded but faceted and smoothed -- but at this point, for most people it's boredom at first sight; so, for no increase in price, you may as well get a coloured handle and remind yourself that it's not just the 5x - 10x more expensive knives that you can look at and smile and want to pick up and use, but this one, too. the plain black victorinox is so ubiquitous and... so mundane and unassuming in its quiet reliability, particularly with that oversized, blobby-looking, matte handle... that just the act of switching to a different colour makes it more _yours_, more special, more of an _aesthetic_ choice beyond just the humdrum functional/economical/practical choice for which i mentioned it. i'm not saying "glue fake eyelashes to your civic's headlights"; i'm just saying that for the same price, you can get one that you can look at and instantly remind yourself there is something actually special about this el cheapo knife; that colour handle is a little wink between you and your victorinox, saying you both know what's going on, and why.
 
tostadas said:
The victorinox is better in every way (I own both). Vic has better profile, balance, grind, price and doesnt have an annoying bolster, allowing you to sharpen the entire edge when needed. I find the edge retention on the Vic vs Henckels to be very similar.

I still consider the Victorinox 8" to be one of the best knives under $100.
Click to expand...

The red handled Victorinox paring knife I had would not hold an edge as well as my Henckels 4star paring knife. Maybe they are better now. This was 20 years ago. When you use a belt sander the bolster sharpens the same as the blade. No problem I see. I have used Henckels all my life and I am old. They seem normal to me. The cheaper Henckels will not hold an edge like the 4-star Henckels.
 
coxhaus said:
The red handled Victorinox paring knife I had would not hold an edge as well as my Henckels 4star paring knife. Maybe they are better now. This was 20 years ago. When you use a belt sander the bolster sharpens the same as the blade. No problem I see. I have used Henckels all my life and I am old. They seem normal to me. The cheaper Henckels will not hold an edge like the 4-star Henckels.
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It's personal preference then. I really dislike the Henckels balance (handle heavy), profile (almost all belly), and very thick grind. For my in-laws who rock chop with heavy hands, the Henckels better suits their style. For me however, not so much.
 
+1 for victorinox.

Also, their new series (Modern) have nice handles, for me way better than fibrox (I own both). I'm keeping mine around just in the case I need to hunt down some pumpkins or SOMEONE WANT TO CUT SOMETHING IN MY KITCHEN (I really hate it - I can't look at all this strange cutting techniques with high injury risk, as I feel the potential pain from injury). You can get one with blue or black handle.

Also they may be risk that someone borrow it (and there are some cooks out there who are really mistreating knives) and doing something to it. Pray it your vnox.

Currently borrowed it to a friend for testing (as I'm fixing her main knife). She is pro cook and already asked me where to buy it :D
 
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I have been wondering for some time as a "newish" Japanese knife user about the vintage NOS offerings from Bernal. For example the Masakane SK series:

Masakane 210mm Gyuto SK Carbon Steel New Old Stock

Masakane 210mm Gyuto (No Bolster) SK Carbon Steel New Old Stock Ebony

Or some of the K. Sabatier finds:

K Sabatier 'New Vintage' 12" Chef 'Canadian' Carbon / Wood handle

Does anyone have experience that they could offer for these knives, either through Bernal or otherwise that would throw these into the comparison with the Victorinox and Henckels knives that have been discussed above?
 
https://japanesechefsknife.com/products/misono-sweden-steel-series-gyuto-180mm-to-360mm-8-sizes
Plus a real dog of a beater that you can even buy at goodwill. For all the reasons listed above. Also this place is almost only full of enablers you could just sit on that money and take your Kramer, or use that money for a cheap ish petty and a beater. You really can find yourself doing anything and usually it’s petty awful work as a stage. Just quickly off the top of my head here’s a few things I’ve seen people have to do or done myself.
Pick Thyme leaves from the stems and arrange by size as shown by three examples. After about an hour the sorting was deemed inadequate and tossed out. Repeat three times until stage calls ******** and walks out of what was the best restaurant of the world.
We served carbonated grapes as part of an amuse, we’d also deemed the peels inedible, (too tannic) so they were peeled and sliced but there was a really specific peeling method. I got to tell my old boss he was doing it wrong and he didn’t believe me, kept going and had a pretty awful run in with one of my coworkers.
Keep your head down and just do what you’re told but also don’t put up with too much ******** just to put this place on your resume.
 
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