i have a 1000 and 3000 grit... theres a sale for stones on mtckitchen and i was wondering if theres any others i should get. Most people said going beyond 3000 even for my sg2 knives is pointless. Anyone have an opinion if i were to get another one?
any reason to get a whetstone higher than 3000?
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Assuming you have something like shapton stones, I’d probably get a 500 before a 5000, but I like to finish carbon knives at 5-6000. I find coarser stones really helpful. If your knives need thinning I’d get a 220 as well.
user 16756
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Shapton Glass 500 for sure.
as far as higher than 3k, I think r2/sg2 is fine up to 6-8. wouldnt go past that, but then I wouldnt go past that for a gyuto in carbon either. that's just to my taste. what good finisher can you get at MTC? maybe Suehiro Rika 5k? reasonable edge stone IMO. There's a new Debado 6k stone I bet that one is nice.
as far as higher than 3k, I think r2/sg2 is fine up to 6-8. wouldnt go past that, but then I wouldnt go past that for a gyuto in carbon either. that's just to my taste. what good finisher can you get at MTC? maybe Suehiro Rika 5k? reasonable edge stone IMO. There's a new Debado 6k stone I bet that one is nice.
what does 500 do that you wouldnt just use a 1000 for?
what does 500 do that you wouldnt just use a 1000 for?
and if i wanted a coarse one why get a 220 compared to say a 120 or a 320?
user 16756
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shapton glass 500 can be much faster than most 1k stones. it's also just a good stone in general. good for checking bevel geometry, good edge on cheap stainless, good burr formation. just overall the most useful synthetic stone in production IMO.
Im not recommending a 500 grit stone. Im recommending specifically the shapton glass 500. those numbers they put on the box dont tell you everything; shapton pro 500 vs glass 500 vs other brand 500 can all act very differently. if you come away from this thread thinking you want a 500 grit stone and a 5000 grit stone rather than a specific 500 and specific 5000 (for example) you took the wrong thing away from it IMO
iandustries
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what grit would you use for this?
ok i will get a 500 glass stone, thanks! anything else i should get?
ModRQC
Just shutup n' grabbit!
A double thick SG500, for thrice would still not be enough of it, but they don't make it.
Not that it's shedding so fast. Mine double thick is still 7+mm abrasives after what... if it's not 500 strokes of Atoma 140 on it it's not any. And many various thinning, and sharpenings, and flattening each time. That I'm already staging a next purchase of it where it's well started as to last me another entire year is saying something. That I use it every serious session of sharpening, or for just about any work whatsoever, is saying something. YMMV - but it won't. It's just bound to be your next greatest stone purchase ever.
You could jump straight from 3k to 8k but it might be easier to get a neat result if you went to 5 or 6k first
Kitayama 8k gives a decent mirror finish and even a little contrast at a pretty good price.
ModRQC
Just shutup n' grabbit!
If not that, then get an Arashiyama 1K and Ouka for polishing AND sharpening, and any finer stone able to get you mirror polish on cores and net you a refined but aggressive fine edge. Ouka does well at that for maximum bite and hazy mirror polish; IME Kit 8K does well at that for even finer but aggressive, and has greatest core mirroring abilities for speed - or usable sharpening abilities all around.
To me someone will be very happy with:
One very coarse stone we don't care for polishing as long as it's fast and can be covered well. IMO Sigma 240 is one of the best - if sealed which is a necessity for it. 100$ CAD.
One behaved coarse stone for covering the last one - and take care fast of any steel sharpening/repairs in a behaved way or making sures/starting a wide bevel for integrity. Nanohone 200 does that. 90$ CAD.
Then SG500 - dbl thick - will polish whatever good combo before as well as yield a coarse refined edge like nobody's business. 110$ CAD.
Then is when the market truly separates: but to me best move is to get a good polisher/good sharpener in med grits. Arashiyama 1K does this best than most and does it fast too. 75$ CAD.
Then Ouka and Kit 8K are places where you can naturally go polishing and sharpening as well. 175$ CAD for both at worse.
6 stones; great sharpening range, great polishing range. An average of 90$ per stone, about 550$ CAD total (425$ USD) and there won't be much to be missed but refining your fine stones, possibly med stones, to gain more leverage in polishing or easy speed in sharpening. No addition in synth stones are likely to rock your world over these six ones; but stones like Cerax 320-700 (150$ CAD), SP1K-2K (150$ CAD), and some nice all around in between Ouka-Kit 8K like Morihei 4K or surely SG4K (100$ CAD) might get you more leverage/checkpoints still.
All in, not 1K of stones (CAD; about 750$ USD) for 11 of them and you're very, very well taken care of. If you've invested 2.5K in knives already and really mean to maintain them yourself, shouldn't be something to shy you away over a 6/12 months span. If you're a pro cook, you'll just about need something like all of these in the next few months as well. If you want to go at professional sharpening, these will get you a loooooong way before going power tools.
To me someone will be very happy with:
One very coarse stone we don't care for polishing as long as it's fast and can be covered well. IMO Sigma 240 is one of the best - if sealed which is a necessity for it. 100$ CAD.
One behaved coarse stone for covering the last one - and take care fast of any steel sharpening/repairs in a behaved way or making sures/starting a wide bevel for integrity. Nanohone 200 does that. 90$ CAD.
Then SG500 - dbl thick - will polish whatever good combo before as well as yield a coarse refined edge like nobody's business. 110$ CAD.
Then is when the market truly separates: but to me best move is to get a good polisher/good sharpener in med grits. Arashiyama 1K does this best than most and does it fast too. 75$ CAD.
Then Ouka and Kit 8K are places where you can naturally go polishing and sharpening as well. 175$ CAD for both at worse.
6 stones; great sharpening range, great polishing range. An average of 90$ per stone, about 550$ CAD total (425$ USD) and there won't be much to be missed but refining your fine stones, possibly med stones, to gain more leverage in polishing or easy speed in sharpening. No addition in synth stones are likely to rock your world over these six ones; but stones like Cerax 320-700 (150$ CAD), SP1K-2K (150$ CAD), and some nice all around in between Ouka-Kit 8K like Morihei 4K or surely SG4K (100$ CAD) might get you more leverage/checkpoints still.
All in, not 1K of stones (CAD; about 750$ USD) for 11 of them and you're very, very well taken care of. If you've invested 2.5K in knives already and really mean to maintain them yourself, shouldn't be something to shy you away over a 6/12 months span. If you're a pro cook, you'll just about need something like all of these in the next few months as well. If you want to go at professional sharpening, these will get you a loooooong way before going power tools.
I like to add stones one at a time. Gives you a better shot at understanding how to use them. Just get the 500 I’d say. If you find you need to thin your knives go back for the 220. Having a 220 let’s your 500 last longer, you won’t overuse the 500 that way
I think a 120 is too coarse, especially for a beginner like me. 220 is a better start point for thinning. 120s make pretty deep scratches.
I think your most used coarse stone is your most important stone, your cornerstone. My cornerstone is a glass 500, I build every progression around that stone. I have a soaking progression where a gesshin 400 was my favorite coarse, I prefer the glass 500 to that stone and now use the shapton alongside the soakers.
Others may prefer a 320 as their coarse “cornerstone”. I never did a side by side analysis, it’s just my personal preference.
In response to the original question... no, not really.
As others have also said - a coarser stone should be your next one. I like my SG 500 a lot, though my only complaint is that it's not as un-dishy as I hoped, so a double thickness one would be good.
TBH completely honest though I would save the money and get a medium or fine India.
As others have also said - a coarser stone should be your next one. I like my SG 500 a lot, though my only complaint is that it's not as un-dishy as I hoped, so a double thickness one would be good.
TBH completely honest though I would save the money and get a medium or fine India.
shinyunggyun
Senior Member
I am curious, is there any reason to go above 3000 if ultimate sharpness is all you are after? For better polish, I understand why you would. But do 5000-6000 grit stones offer a sharpness that is truly superior to 3000?
It depends. 3000 grit will leave some toothiness on the edge. Some is good for most kitchen tasks. Higher grit will polish that out. Which is wonderful if you are a sushi chef and/or use single bevel knives. And some like that ultra smooth edge.
I usually stop at 3000. Some times for fun I go for 6000 or 8000 just for the experience, but 3000 grit seems to be my wheelhouse and really works for me the best.
ModRQC
Just shutup n' grabbit!
Toothiness depends on stones as well.
Using a finer stone than 3K does yield higher sharpness. Doesn't necessarily correlates with better performance depending on what you cut, but try dicing onions with a 3K edge, then a 6K edge, on the same knife, and you'll get to appreciate the difference.
Kitayama 8K gives that kind of refined and still leaves the necessary bite that makes a good kitchen edge IMO. You can always hybrid the edge too as to get a result more in line with your needs.
3000 is just a grit number. It does nothing good to say: stop at 3K. Why not 4K? It's just limiting.
It's more a matter of the stone at hand. So if you like your edges out of your 3K and don't ever feel the need for a finer edge in anything you do, then there's no good reason to go beyond it, from your own accord.
Another 3K you could not like at all. Then, perhaps a 4K somewhere is your dream edge and you don't know it. Or perhaps it's a 6K.
Me I love an Ouka edge. But it's not one to suit all my knives for all I do. Some of my Carbons see the 8K. AEB-L as well comes out of it mighty good.
Using a finer stone than 3K does yield higher sharpness. Doesn't necessarily correlates with better performance depending on what you cut, but try dicing onions with a 3K edge, then a 6K edge, on the same knife, and you'll get to appreciate the difference.
Kitayama 8K gives that kind of refined and still leaves the necessary bite that makes a good kitchen edge IMO. You can always hybrid the edge too as to get a result more in line with your needs.
3000 is just a grit number. It does nothing good to say: stop at 3K. Why not 4K? It's just limiting.
It's more a matter of the stone at hand. So if you like your edges out of your 3K and don't ever feel the need for a finer edge in anything you do, then there's no good reason to go beyond it, from your own accord.
Another 3K you could not like at all. Then, perhaps a 4K somewhere is your dream edge and you don't know it. Or perhaps it's a 6K.
Me I love an Ouka edge. But it's not one to suit all my knives for all I do. Some of my Carbons see the 8K. AEB-L as well comes out of it mighty good.
shinyunggyun
Senior Member
Oh, okay. So what are some good 6000k for white and blue steels?
Gesshin 6000 soaker is an easy one to recommend. I’ve had mine for six years, the world may have moved on.
user 16756
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most 6k grit synthetics are expensive enough I'd just consider a natural, but that's me.
either Gesshin 6k or JNS 6k are easy recommendations though.
either Gesshin 6k or JNS 6k are easy recommendations though.
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I could get a Naniwa Snow-white 8k for little money. I probably wouldn't have paid the full price. Very nice with carbons, offering both a high polish and a fine bite; useful for deburring with others. If for deburring only an unexpensive Blue Belgian is very effective. The rounded abrasive particles catch a burr without creating a new one, as with some aggressive synthetics.
spaceconvoy
Senior Member
I'm going to be contrarian and say don't bother with lower grits until you absolutely need them. They get work done more quickly but they're boring. If you're interested in a higher grit edge you should definitely try one, otherwise you'll keep wondering what you're missing out on. You might eventually settle on a 3k finisher like many of us, but that's part of the journey. I doubt anyone here would have been content to just follow the prevailing wisdom without seeing for themselves when they were starting out.
ModRQC
Just shutup n' grabbit!
Why 6K precisely?
What is more interesting is to know where you finish at right now - not just a grit, but what actual stone are you using?
shinyunggyun
Senior Member
I start with chosera 600 and finish with either chosera 3000 or ouka 3000.
The results are good enough for me, but I want to see how much better I could do.
I'm going to have to put that on the vintage list to try. They are pretty cheap on eBay.
ModRQC
Just shutup n' grabbit!
Chosera 3K is a nice one. More 4K like, nice to use.
Only stone I tried that would really mark a departure from it, not kill the bite, and have decent use and decent polishing abilities is Kitayama 8K indeed. You could vary from using it after Chosera or after Ouka, and from simply stropping to fully polishing the edge, and see what that gets you.
Only stone I tried that would really mark a departure from it, not kill the bite, and have decent use and decent polishing abilities is Kitayama 8K indeed. You could vary from using it after Chosera or after Ouka, and from simply stropping to fully polishing the edge, and see what that gets you.
shinyunggyun
Senior Member
What about the jns 6000? What do you think of that stone?
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Not much improvement to expect. You're very well served with these stones. Do you have an Atoma 140 for maintaining the stones? Otherwise, you may consider a Shapton Pro 2k, not so much to add to your progression, but to start with in case there is no need to go as low as with the NP600, or to finish with some stainless.
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"any reason to get a whetstone higher than 3000?"
Sure. If you're in the U.S. and aren't against soakers, the JKI 4k is good for sharpening.
And there's the Shapton Glass 4k.
And there's diamond stones (not plates) like Venev, Nanohone, Practical Sharpening and Triple B Handmade. Those allow high carbide steels to take a finer grit edge, if someone prefers those kinds of edges. Also don't slow down with a high percentage of carbides.
Sure. If you're in the U.S. and aren't against soakers, the JKI 4k is good for sharpening.
And there's the Shapton Glass 4k.
And there's diamond stones (not plates) like Venev, Nanohone, Practical Sharpening and Triple B Handmade. Those allow high carbide steels to take a finer grit edge, if someone prefers those kinds of edges. Also don't slow down with a high percentage of carbides.
