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calostro5

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2019
Messages
279
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168
Location
Spain
LOCATION
What country are you in? Spain



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? Gyuto

Are you right or left handed? Left handed.


Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? I have not used any japanese handle, so I think that western handle is better for me. Anyway I am not closed to japanese handle.


What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 18-21 cm


Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) No. In fact I look for a carbon steel. Maybe with stainless cladding.


What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? Preferably no more than 100€


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? Just home.


What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) General use. I don't rock or chop the food, usually I slice. I wouldn't cut bones and I would avoid using this knife to cut pieces with bones, so I don't expect this risk of damage for the knife.


What knife, if any, are you replacing? I am not going to replace other knife, but my other knives are western chef's knives and gyutos.

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) Pinchgrip

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) Slicing and mincing.


What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) I just want to try a carbon knife.

Better aesthetics. Not a main factor


Comfort. Not a main factor, I won't cut for long periods of time.


Ease of Use and Care. This could be important because this would be my first carbon knife.


Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? Not a main factor, I won't cut for long periods of time.


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? I have synthetic and end grain boards. Even composite boards (Epicurean)

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) Yes, I sharpen my knives, but I still must improve my sharpening skill.

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? -

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) I have already sharpening stones.


SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS
The reason for buying this knife is trying some carbon knife. I feel curiosity about how this steel fells, sharpen, etc. compared to stainless steel.
 
Shiro Kamo's kurochi Blue and Superblue (AS) steel are worh a look. Possibly slightly iver your budget but a whole lot of knife for the dollars (or even Euros, I guess).
 
Shiro Kamo's kurochi Blue and Superblue (AS) steel are worh a look. Possibly slightly iver your budget but a whole lot of knife for the dollars (or even Euros, I guess).
Do you refer to this?
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knife...3-08-22-12-33-182013-08-22-12-33-18-86-detail


What about this one?
https://kobaknife.com/producto/tsunehisa-aogami-2-cuchillo-gyuto-200mm/
I think it is the same than this one:
https://www.thesharpcook.com/product/kanetsune-kc-922-tsuchime-gyuto-200mm/
Due to the stainless steel clad, I think the maintenance would be easier for me.
 
Do you refer to this?
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knife...3-08-22-12-33-182013-08-22-12-33-18-86-detail


What about this one?
https://kobaknife.com/producto/tsunehisa-aogami-2-cuchillo-gyuto-200mm/
I think it is the same than this one:
https://www.thesharpcook.com/product/kanetsune-kc-922-tsuchime-gyuto-200mm/
Due to the stainless steel clad, I think the maintenance would be easier for me.
Black Dragon is Shiro Kamo blue2 IIRC. I have the AS version but I believe that the blue2 version is very similar (so should be excellent value for money).

I really can't comment on the other two as I have no experience of them.

If you are looking for stainless clad, you could do much worse than Tanaka blue2 or Wakui white2 but I suspect that thes will be above your price range.

FWIW, most iron clad is pretty easy to maintain once it foems a patina. Just make sure it's not left wet for more than a few minutes. There are a few that are more reactive (Mazaki comes to mind) but most are not too bad.
 
If you just want to 'try something carbon' there's rather cheap options from Pallares Solsona, Böker, Robert Herder and K-Sabatier to consider as well.
 
Oooh yeah... thread starter is a lefty. That's problematic with a lot of the entry-level Japanese stuff.
 
If you just want to 'try something carbon' there's rather cheap options from Pallares Solsona, Böker, Robert Herder and K-Sabatier to consider as well.
How much is the Robert Herder carbons in Europe? It’s pretty hard to find them under €100 here, they makes really good knives.
 
Black Dragon is Shiro Kamo blue2 IIRC. I have the AS version but I believe that the blue2 version is very similar (so should be excellent value for money).

I really can't comment on the other two as I have no experience of them.

If you are looking for stainless clad, you could do much worse than Tanaka blue2 or Wakui white2 but I suspect that thes will be above your price range.

FWIW, most iron clad is pretty easy to maintain once it foems a patina. Just make sure it's not left wet for more than a few minutes. There are a few that are more reactive (Mazaki comes to mind) but most are not too bad.

So you recommend me whole carbon steel blade.
I would buy the knife in any European webshop. So I am limited by it too.

All have the advantage of not being as strongly right-biased as most Japanese knives.

Many Japanese knives are grinded 50/50. Or are there other details that define if the knife is made for left or right handed?

If you just want to 'try something carbon' there's rather cheap options from Pallares Solsona, Böker, Robert Herder and K-Sabatier to consider as well.

Pallares solsona is cheap in 16 cm. In 22 the price is around the double. Moreover, the profile is very different from a gyuto. The point is high and the edge is very curved (like the European chef's knives are). I prefer a more plain edge.
Anyway, I have thought about buying a 16 cm pallares solsona.
From the other brands I don't have any idea.
 
Many Japanese knives are grinded 50/50. Or are there other details that define if the knife is made for left or right handed?
Expect the left side to be flat, while the right one is convexed. It helps with food release by right-handers, while produce will stick to the flat left side if used by left-handers. Misono and Masahiro have versions with an inverted geometry.
 
Expect the left side to be flat, while the right one is convexed. It helps with food release by right-handers, while produce will stick to the flat left side if used by left-handers. Misono and Masahiro have versions with an inverted geometry.
This complicates the decision.
I didn't think about it when I bought the takamura.

Ps: takamura seems symmetrical.
 
How much is the Robert Herder carbons in Europe? It’s pretty hard to find them under €100 here, they makes really good knives.
It depends a lot on the line; the K-series and 1922 are >100 here as well, but they have some more mundane cheaper models. Sadly those have been creeping up in price too, so they're definitly the more pricey in that little list.
 
So you recommend me whole carbon steel blade.
No, I'm giving you information to consider.

Whether you but iron clad or stainless clad is of course completely up to you.
 
Oohh... I missed that you are a left hander.

As @Benuser mentioned, all Japanese knives are assymetrical, typically ground to favour a right hander.

Check @Kippington 's excellent thread "A basic explanation of assymetry" for an explanation of why.

In thinner knives like Takamura, this assymetry is minor and often difficult to detect. Much more or an issue on thicker knives.

FWIW, My (2) Shiro Kamo gyutos are ground fairly thin (but my SK Sujihiki is a bit thicker, which suits this style of knife).
 
No, I'm giving you information to consider.

Whether you but iron clad or stainless clad is of course completely up to you.

Thank you for the information then.
I know that what kind of clad I choose is up to me, but recommendations from other more experienced person is useful.

Common with laserish blades.

I know there are asymmetrical knives, but I have had always the impression that takamura knives are symmetrical knives. I assumed it, but actually I was not sure.

Oohh... I missed that you are a left hander.

As @Benuser mentioned, all Japanese knives are assymetrical, typically ground to favour a right hander.

Check @Kippington 's excellent thread "A basic explanation of assymetry" for an explanation of why.

In thinner knives like Takamura, this assymetry is minor and often difficult to detect. Much more or an issue on thicker knives.

FWIW, My (2) Shiro Kamo gyutos are ground fairly thin (but my SK Sujihiki is a bit thicker, which suits this style of knife).

I have to ensure they are for left handed, or I should avoid Japanese knives.
 
There are three routes you can go down:
1) Ignore the assymetry. Some lefties do this and say the knife cuts fine. I'm not a leftiy, so can't really comment.
2) Get a very thin knife which should only have minor assymetry but pretty ordinary food release.
3) Get a knife ground for a leftie. Misono does some enty level leftie grinds. Expect to pay 1/3 to 1/2 extra, though.
 
The Misono Swedish Carbon 240 gyuto for right-handers costs $167, the left version $192, both with japanesechefsknife.com
 
I have two Tsunehisa knives and both are pretty symmetrical. I don't think either of them would be a problem for a lefty. They make a good knife too.

I also agree that all carbon isn't that bad to take care of.
 
There are three routes you can go down:
1) Ignore the assymetry. Some lefties do this and say the knife cuts fine. I'm not a leftiy, so can't really comment.
2) Get a very thin knife which should only have minor assymetry but pretty ordinary food release.
3) Get a knife ground for a leftie. Misono does some enty level leftie grinds. Expect to pay 1/3 to 1/2 extra, though.
I don't have enough experience to decide to ignore the asymmetry.
I think the second option is the best, more if I don't want to spend much money.

The Misono Swedish Carbon 240 gyuto for right-handers costs $167, the left version $192, both with japanesechefsknife.com

If the ship is outside of Europe, I will have to add some taxes. Moreover, the size I want is 210 because I think 240 is too big.

I have two Tsunehisa knives and both are pretty symmetrical. I don't think either of them would be a problem for a lefty. They make a good knife too.

I also agree that all carbon isn't that bad to take care of.

I will take a look at Tsunehisa.
 
I have already received the knife.
IMG_20230410_211342366.jpg


On the package says the hardness is 60 HRC.
IMG_20230410_211409790~2.jpg


But on a pamphlet wich is inside the package says 58 HRC.
IMG_20230410_211546370~2.jpg


¿Does anyone know which is the real hardness?

This is the knife:
IMG_20230410_212612885~2.jpg
The blade comes oiled.
 

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  • IMG_20230410_211409790.jpg
    IMG_20230410_211409790.jpg
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I have already received the knife.
View attachment 236646

On the package says the hardness is 60 HRC.
View attachment 236649

But on a pamphlet wich is inside the package says 58 HRC.
View attachment 236648

¿Does anyone know which is the real hardness?

This is the knife:
View attachment 236650The blade comes oiled.
The 58Rc the leaflet refers to is the hardness that's according to the text common with stainless, an obvious reference to Wüsthof. 60Rc on the box is about the Böker itself. Seems perfectly realistic to me, if I compare to the 60Rc of Herder 1922 or K-series, or Misono Swedish, whose claim I believe isn't so sure.
 
The 58Rc the leaflet refers to is the hardness that's according to the text common with stainless, an obvious reference to Wüsthof. 60Rc on the box is about the Böker itself. Seems perfectly realistic to me, if I compare to the 60Rc of Herder 1922 or K-series, or Misono Swedish, whose claim I believe isn't so sure.
So, I didn't understand correctly the text.
So far I am happy with the knife. The grind is not very thin but I don't feel selfconfident to thin it. In another thread we discussed about this subject, but I don't remember which thread was.
I have bought a Kanetsune KC-702 whose edge is 60/40 for right-handed so I changed the edge in order to make it symmetrical and and convex.
This is the result:
IMG_20230429_144113686_PORTRAIT.jpg
IMG_20230429_144155760_PORTRAIT.jpg

As usual, I scratched the blade. I could sand it completely but I think this requires a lot of job and erasing the serigraphy so I just softened the scratches.
Thinning the blade also requires a loft of work and I would have to get coarser stones.
By now, I will use the knife as currently is. But I assume this is not a good job.
I want this knife as a workhorse carbon knife because I find this knife robust and not expensive.
Any suggestions?
 
Last edited:
I have bought a Kanetsune KC-702 whose edge is 60/40 for right-handed so I changed the edge in order to make it symmetrical and and convex.
This is the result:
View attachment 240501View attachment 240502
As usual, I scratched the blade. I could sand it completely but I think this requires a lot of job and erasing the serigraphy so I just softened the scratches.
Thinning the blade also requires a loft of work and I would have to get coarser stones.
By now, I will use the knife as currently is. But I assume this is not a good job.
I want this knife as a workhorse carbon knife because I find this knife robust
I'm really shocked because my Kanetsune KC-702 came with a chisel grind for right-handers, and certainly not with a 60/40. Rather 95/5.
Anyway, the left side is deadly flat and remains so, even if you were to move the edge from off-centered to the left to get somewhat more balanced.
A sharpener with powered equipment may try to save the blade, but it remains strongly right-biased.
 
I'm really shocked because my Kanetsune KC-702 came with a chisel grind for right-handers, and certainly not with a 60/40. Rather 95/5.
Anyway, the left side is deadly flat and remains so, even if you were to move the edge from off-centered to the left to get somewhat more balanced.
A sharpener with powered equipment may try to save the blade, but it remains strongly right-biased.
IMG_20230501_094222490.jpg


You are right, the blade is right biased. I used the knife yesterday and the performance was not bad but clearly this grind is not ideal for left handed.
 
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