I think Torien and Kono in NYC are pretty comparable to "top" spots in Tokyo. Of course, I haven't been to Torishiki (which seems impossible now)
Do You Yakatori?
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Also the Livart grill he recommends has been out of stock for a while. I think it has exposed heating elements, but many other tabletop grills do not. I did use a different tabletop grill before, and it was pretty useless IMO, so probably need to get the right one.
A local chef who does yakitori popups reported that he likes the BinchoGrill more than his konro. "Works better and uses less binchotan," were his remarks. Seems like an interesting option, if not quite as exciting as the ceramic kind. Looks easier to clean too. Yakitori Guy has a review:
It's also not uncommon to see electric or gas infrared grills in use, but they've got way more power than the small consumer ones.
It's also not uncommon to see electric or gas infrared grills in use, but they've got way more power than the small consumer ones.
MowgFace
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Someone was talking about hacking one up…
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I have been thinking of that...using a few chamotte bricks
I used to help run a yakitori pop up. At home I have a setup on top of an old grill made of fire bricks and heavy foil and some steel tube/bar stock to rest skewers on. Works equally fine as our purpose built grill we imported back then. Happy to answer questions and will provide more thoughts later.
More thoughts!
Yakitori is a really fun style of cooking, there's an infinite amount to learn but at its core it's also really quite simple, it's incredibly prep heavy, it's hard to do without volume of birds/customers/etc., it's hard to get better without repetition, quality of your bird is really important (bad won't work, great is best, good is still fine), and it's a really hard one to pull off for any home based group (people wanting to eat all at once in the western traditional dinner party sense).
Gear - I use a fire brick and aluminum foil with steel stock and simple mesh restaurant grates setup that works great for me. It sits on an old charbroiler from a restaurant in my yard so it gets great airflow from below, very little from the sides. I imagine you can make something similar with any old brick on a grill and be in it for a few bucks if you want to try it out. We had a big grill for the shop, akin to what you'd see in japan (I think this was pre konro being that prevalent so we imported it.) We ended up really liking L-shaped metal for the bars vs. the hollow tube stock it came with. They seemed to block the long ends of the grill, focusing the heat to the center which meant less charring/heat on the part you grab and turn. I found we got singed ends and sometimes breakage if there was a gap between the grill wall and the bars if that makes sense. That's the main piece of gear besides what you keep tare in, the skewers used, etc. Flat skewers are a must, anything else will spin. I think ours were from mtc or trueworld but there's so many options now. We used a hand fan for coals and metal grates for things that needed it and that was kind of it.
Binchotan - We used it exclusively, several different kinds. We had tough luck with Thaan but I like it for other stuff. Our main issue was fat tended to flare vs vaporize (seems like woo woo but it's noticeable. Not all the time, flare ups still happen but it does make a difference). When starting binchotan, wear safety glasses, it can pop violently as it heats up. We started it in a chimney starter on a wok burner for a shocking amount of time. We dunked ours at the end of service in water and re-used it for several services. We set up a hot area and a less hot area in the grill (mostly full and partially full.) If we needed more mid service, we found it was best to start it fresh vs. load fresh onto the grill (our grill was small and this kinda messed with temps, plus the popping)
Chicken! - Ours was from a local farm. They did enough where they processed and saved organ meats for us as they ran through a lot more processed birds than whole birds and were left with a lot of misc. (Mostly gizzard, breast bone, skin, hearts, liver.) Besides that, we processed whole birds and saved up stuff and rant it as specials when we had the quantity we needed (pope's nose, that flappy meat near the rib cavity, knee cartilage, etc.) Tsukune recipe testing was extensive. It's kind of the savior of the whole process. You get to grind a lot of the misc. (breast mostly) and turn it into something more exciting.
Labor/prep - It's immense. Ironically, skewering took more time than butchery. It was crazy laborious. Break down 10+ birds a day into very specific component parts, then into skewerable pieces, grind chicken for tsukune and form that, make more tare (carcasses and bones went there), veg prep, etc. The skewering take so much time because getting the hang of manipulating something that isn't intuitive (I want this amorphous chunk of thigh to sit like a consistent rectangle so I skewer it like I'm folding a fitted sheet) takes a lot of practice. Thankfully, you can mess it up and it's still tasty, it's just not as good as it can be and it can really mess up workflow trying to cook irregular pieces. Consistency of size is important along the skewer because it very much impacts how it cooks. If you have a fat end and a skinny end, you're going to flip it a lot or put it on a rack and it's going to mess up workflow. After a while, you get a sense of how hot your grill is where, and what size pieces and what position on the grill is best for different cuts. Prep works best in groups frankly. There were typically 3-4 of us doing prep through service (some grilled, some switched to FOH). I'd dislike doing it any other way at scale. Veg was half the fun as well!
Cooking - Not much to say, it's an attentive cooking process, it's hot, you figure out how the grill is going as you cook on it. Eventually it makes sense but it's a little different each day when you load it. You will likely make your pieces too big to start. Your prep determines how easy or hard your process is.
Seasoning - Usually salt or tare. There's a lot of playing you can do beyond that but those are the main things. There isn't a ton of room to hide. It's well skewered, well seasoned, well cooked meat, and the components should match each other (like for me sasami was always a salt thing, never tare, which we ran sometimes usually with wasabi or ume paste or a shiso salt. When you try enough you'll find what makes sense for you and your tastes.)
Eating! - We ran service with some cold dishes to share and pick at and a big drink menu. This is a drinking food more than a meal. Potato salad, pickles, aemono, other items picked up from the sister restaurant, etc. That way, skewers can come out as they come and no one on either end is stressing about it. At home, we typically just do the same but clustered near the grill. Homestyle in japan is the same way, which is why you see a ton of table top grills around (and prepped yakitori that people takeaway and reheat at home.) Doing it for others vs. with others leads to just an awkward style of eating/entertaining so it's hard to see how it translates unless people are more willing to move in a different way than they're used to.
Chicken and charcoal is a good english language based book
I've found this book to be really useful.
https://www.amazon.com/やきとり_11店の技術と串バリエーション-Shibata-Shoten/dp/4388060380
More thoughts!
Yakitori is a really fun style of cooking, there's an infinite amount to learn but at its core it's also really quite simple, it's incredibly prep heavy, it's hard to do without volume of birds/customers/etc., it's hard to get better without repetition, quality of your bird is really important (bad won't work, great is best, good is still fine), and it's a really hard one to pull off for any home based group (people wanting to eat all at once in the western traditional dinner party sense).
Gear - I use a fire brick and aluminum foil with steel stock and simple mesh restaurant grates setup that works great for me. It sits on an old charbroiler from a restaurant in my yard so it gets great airflow from below, very little from the sides. I imagine you can make something similar with any old brick on a grill and be in it for a few bucks if you want to try it out. We had a big grill for the shop, akin to what you'd see in japan (I think this was pre konro being that prevalent so we imported it.) We ended up really liking L-shaped metal for the bars vs. the hollow tube stock it came with. They seemed to block the long ends of the grill, focusing the heat to the center which meant less charring/heat on the part you grab and turn. I found we got singed ends and sometimes breakage if there was a gap between the grill wall and the bars if that makes sense. That's the main piece of gear besides what you keep tare in, the skewers used, etc. Flat skewers are a must, anything else will spin. I think ours were from mtc or trueworld but there's so many options now. We used a hand fan for coals and metal grates for things that needed it and that was kind of it.
Binchotan - We used it exclusively, several different kinds. We had tough luck with Thaan but I like it for other stuff. Our main issue was fat tended to flare vs vaporize (seems like woo woo but it's noticeable. Not all the time, flare ups still happen but it does make a difference). When starting binchotan, wear safety glasses, it can pop violently as it heats up. We started it in a chimney starter on a wok burner for a shocking amount of time. We dunked ours at the end of service in water and re-used it for several services. We set up a hot area and a less hot area in the grill (mostly full and partially full.) If we needed more mid service, we found it was best to start it fresh vs. load fresh onto the grill (our grill was small and this kinda messed with temps, plus the popping)
Chicken! - Ours was from a local farm. They did enough where they processed and saved organ meats for us as they ran through a lot more processed birds than whole birds and were left with a lot of misc. (Mostly gizzard, breast bone, skin, hearts, liver.) Besides that, we processed whole birds and saved up stuff and rant it as specials when we had the quantity we needed (pope's nose, that flappy meat near the rib cavity, knee cartilage, etc.) Tsukune recipe testing was extensive. It's kind of the savior of the whole process. You get to grind a lot of the misc. (breast mostly) and turn it into something more exciting.
Labor/prep - It's immense. Ironically, skewering took more time than butchery. It was crazy laborious. Break down 10+ birds a day into very specific component parts, then into skewerable pieces, grind chicken for tsukune and form that, make more tare (carcasses and bones went there), veg prep, etc. The skewering take so much time because getting the hang of manipulating something that isn't intuitive (I want this amorphous chunk of thigh to sit like a consistent rectangle so I skewer it like I'm folding a fitted sheet) takes a lot of practice. Thankfully, you can mess it up and it's still tasty, it's just not as good as it can be and it can really mess up workflow trying to cook irregular pieces. Consistency of size is important along the skewer because it very much impacts how it cooks. If you have a fat end and a skinny end, you're going to flip it a lot or put it on a rack and it's going to mess up workflow. After a while, you get a sense of how hot your grill is where, and what size pieces and what position on the grill is best for different cuts. Prep works best in groups frankly. There were typically 3-4 of us doing prep through service (some grilled, some switched to FOH). I'd dislike doing it any other way at scale. Veg was half the fun as well!
Cooking - Not much to say, it's an attentive cooking process, it's hot, you figure out how the grill is going as you cook on it. Eventually it makes sense but it's a little different each day when you load it. You will likely make your pieces too big to start. Your prep determines how easy or hard your process is.
Seasoning - Usually salt or tare. There's a lot of playing you can do beyond that but those are the main things. There isn't a ton of room to hide. It's well skewered, well seasoned, well cooked meat, and the components should match each other (like for me sasami was always a salt thing, never tare, which we ran sometimes usually with wasabi or ume paste or a shiso salt. When you try enough you'll find what makes sense for you and your tastes.)
Eating! - We ran service with some cold dishes to share and pick at and a big drink menu. This is a drinking food more than a meal. Potato salad, pickles, aemono, other items picked up from the sister restaurant, etc. That way, skewers can come out as they come and no one on either end is stressing about it. At home, we typically just do the same but clustered near the grill. Homestyle in japan is the same way, which is why you see a ton of table top grills around (and prepped yakitori that people takeaway and reheat at home.) Doing it for others vs. with others leads to just an awkward style of eating/entertaining so it's hard to see how it translates unless people are more willing to move in a different way than they're used to.
Chicken and charcoal is a good english language based book
I've found this book to be really useful.
https://www.amazon.com/やきとり_11店の技術と串バリエーション-Shibata-Shoten/dp/4388060380
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I know nothing about this style of grilling. It reminds me of a Pittsburgh red steak. I like my steak this way, but I can't do it on a gas grill as they will not get hot enough. I can get close but not the real thing. You need 800 hundred degrees is my understanding and none of my grills have been able to get this hot. Maybe a Brazilian grill as you can lower them very close to the coals. I always know I have found a good steakhouse if they can cook my steak that way. It is very done on the outside but blood red (rare) in the middle.
MowgFace
Senior Member
Those Brazilian grills are next level.
I used to work in a place where blue/Pittsburgh steaks were done directly on a French Top.
YumYumSauce
Senior Member
I really enjoy Yakitori/charcoal grilling. Not many things better than chilling, grilling, and drinking with the homies. Thaan is a great budget alternative to binchotan. Another one to recommend chicken and charcoal ha. It's fun getting a couple chickens whipping out a honesuki and trying to recreate as many skewers from the book as you can. Once I used up the thin grill grate the konro came with I picked up some iron ones from knife wear.
Binchotan can be difficult to light, but I've drunkenly done it before with a fan and some lighter fluid at my bosses party. Worth it for the a5 we grilled.
I used to light it with a chimney inside on the stove and transport it with a cast iron skillet. Now I use an outdoor wok burner on full blast in a chimney to light binchotan. Gets it going in 10 or so minutes. It might be an extra piece of equipment but it opens up the opportunity for wok, high temp searing without setting off fire alarms, deep frying etc without the mess inside. Got mine for a little over $100.
When I have time and actually plan things I dry brine my chicken overnight. Bonjiri(chicken tail) is probably my favorite cut. Soak the skewers. Or maybe pick up some metal ones. Have a fan ready to fan the charcoal.
You don't just have to do chicken either. Almost everything is better grilled imo. You can cut things down if it's too big for the grill and then it'll cook faster anyway. I always do various veg, mushrooms, and protiens too
Binchotan can be difficult to light, but I've drunkenly done it before with a fan and some lighter fluid at my bosses party. Worth it for the a5 we grilled.
I used to light it with a chimney inside on the stove and transport it with a cast iron skillet. Now I use an outdoor wok burner on full blast in a chimney to light binchotan. Gets it going in 10 or so minutes. It might be an extra piece of equipment but it opens up the opportunity for wok, high temp searing without setting off fire alarms, deep frying etc without the mess inside. Got mine for a little over $100.
When I have time and actually plan things I dry brine my chicken overnight. Bonjiri(chicken tail) is probably my favorite cut. Soak the skewers. Or maybe pick up some metal ones. Have a fan ready to fan the charcoal.
You don't just have to do chicken either. Almost everything is better grilled imo. You can cut things down if it's too big for the grill and then it'll cook faster anyway. I always do various veg, mushrooms, and protiens too
I had a super fun first-time yakitori party with my family last summer. We got 3 chickens for 6 people so everyone could try one oyster, one wing flat, etc (didn’t use all the breasts) and used our Kamado Joe with good lump charcoal. Not the authentic konro experience, but worked well without needing to buy any new equipment.
We set up the Yakitori Guy breakdown video right on the counter, and each of my brothers and I took one chicken and butchered it up. It took a lot of time, as we had to keep rewinding the video to follow along, but we love cooking together and all learned some new techniques. I’ve been taking more little meat pieces off my chickens since then even for non-yakitori uses.
Highly recommend trying it if you have the type of family/friends that would enjoy collaboratively hacking up poultry then standing around a hot grill. I used my Koshi ko-bunka, which is probably less suited to the job than a regular petty shape but has a combo of sharpness+durability that works for me.
We set up the Yakitori Guy breakdown video right on the counter, and each of my brothers and I took one chicken and butchered it up. It took a lot of time, as we had to keep rewinding the video to follow along, but we love cooking together and all learned some new techniques. I’ve been taking more little meat pieces off my chickens since then even for non-yakitori uses.
Highly recommend trying it if you have the type of family/friends that would enjoy collaboratively hacking up poultry then standing around a hot grill. I used my Koshi ko-bunka, which is probably less suited to the job than a regular petty shape but has a combo of sharpness+durability that works for me.
Chips
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This is one of the most helpful posts on the topic I can imagine. This is a great quick start to what it actually takes. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks! Happy to help and share. Any other question holler at me and I’ll try my best
Dan-
Senior Member
Anyone try this over wood like a Breeo? I ordered the chick/charcoal book as well as やきとり―11店の技術と串バリエーション
Dan-
Senior Member
Tonight I made yakitori on easy mode, mostly.
1) I made fresh tare using a combination of Ono’s book and yakitoriguy’s method.
2) I used boneless, skinless thighs I found in my chest freezer (why is it so full???)
3) I used to just use tinfoil, but this week I went to Tractor Supply and got some fire bricks. I wrapped up those in tin foil and stuck them on my grill.
4) I have stainless steel flat skewers for my chicken. I also used bamboo skewers for my shishito and asparagus.
5) I cooked all this on a propane grill. I’ve done this for 12 years minus the bricks.
Edit: knife
1) I made fresh tare using a combination of Ono’s book and yakitoriguy’s method.
2) I used boneless, skinless thighs I found in my chest freezer (why is it so full???)
3) I used to just use tinfoil, but this week I went to Tractor Supply and got some fire bricks. I wrapped up those in tin foil and stuck them on my grill.
4) I have stainless steel flat skewers for my chicken. I also used bamboo skewers for my shishito and asparagus.
5) I cooked all this on a propane grill. I’ve done this for 12 years minus the bricks.
Edit: knife
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I also did some yakitori this evening. Well, maybe more redneck yakitori. 
Let's see...
I didn't have a proper tare but tossed together soy sauce, oyster sauce, brown sugar, honey, rice vinegar and garlic powder for a quick basting sauce.
I did the drumettes separate but opened and skewered the flats.
The rest is all breast and tenderloin meat. Some is wrapped in skin, some has Korean chili flake, some has slivers of jalapeno wrapped in them and then a couple of just skin skewers.
The flare up happened just as I took the picture and I immediately put it out.
Let's see...
I didn't have a proper tare but tossed together soy sauce, oyster sauce, brown sugar, honey, rice vinegar and garlic powder for a quick basting sauce.
I did the drumettes separate but opened and skewered the flats.
The rest is all breast and tenderloin meat. Some is wrapped in skin, some has Korean chili flake, some has slivers of jalapeno wrapped in them and then a couple of just skin skewers.
The flare up happened just as I took the picture and I immediately put it out.
I’ve used both konro with binchotan, and a recently acquired iwatani butane grill. I like the konro more for reasons already discussed in this thread, but the speed & convenience of the iwatani is hard to beat, plus I’ll use it indoors under my range hood. It does give decent results, but seems to burn the wooden skewers even if I soak them (which surprisingly I almost never have happen with the konro), I got some smaller metal skewers recently and plan to see how they work.
First series of pictures is with the iwatani
this is from a few months prior with the konro (don’t mind the shiitake lol), similar looking results (without burnt skewers though) but better taste and texture
First series of pictures is with the iwatani
this is from a few months prior with the konro (don’t mind the shiitake lol), similar looking results (without burnt skewers though) but better taste and texture
I wonder how much of the burnt skewer issue is due to the width of the heat exposure? Konro's are pretty narrow with the exposed skewer maybe not being exposed to the direct heat.
That’s a good point, I’ve been making the skewers basically the same and positioning over the heat diffuser plate, but there’s an inch or so either side. The heat is iffy in this area close to the edge, but must be enough burn the skewer. With the konro the skewer ends are partially over the diatomaceous brick, which also slopes slightly outward, so not as “direct”, even though the heat is much hotter and uniform.
Problem is these skewers are the konro length, and the cheap generic longer ones are annoying because they spin unless you double them up. The metal ones I got are slightly longer and rectangular, so hopefully will work well
For some reason I can’t find any of my own skewers, been having some problems with Apple cloud storage recently and it removing my pictures. Regardless, I want to share some pictures of yakitori from my recent trip to Japan. I think one of my main takeaways was to cut my chicken into smaller pieces. It really ends up being a bite sized piece that disappears, not so much of a bite and chew a bit as I’ve been making them. First pic: tenders with wasabi and ume, hearts, quail eggs, another tender. Second is wings and negima (thighs with green onion). Third I believe is the drum and two skewers of tail (super juicy). What’s reassuring to me is that the taste did not blow my mind so much that I never want to make yakitori for myself again.
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I'm going to try my hand with a McGyvered Konro with some heat resistant bricks (there is a floor of those inside as well), one question....is the Tare used cold or is it warm/hot? (I think it's used cold so I will prep that in the early afternoon)
I plan on using some regular BBQ coal to preheat the thing as I imagine the bricks need some heat and I;d rather not waste the Thaan on that.
I plan on using some regular BBQ coal to preheat the thing as I imagine the bricks need some heat and I;d rather not waste the Thaan on that.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
Tare is normally used at room temperature. The idea is to make a large batch, may 1.5 l or so, and to keep it in a container tall enough to dip the yakitori into it. Each time you make yakitori, some of the chicken juices and fat stay in the tare. When the level drops too low, top it up with more fresh tare and keep going.
After a few dozen cooks, the tare becomes much more complex. Apparently, there are yakitori places in Japan that have kept the same tare going for several decades. It's a bit like a solera for port, except with soy sauce and chicken
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Thanks!
I plan on using a smaller equally high container, I do not expect to have a need for 1.5 liters taking up fridge space...already get enough 'feedback' on the number of 'exotic jars in the fridge as is(just two shelves) ;-)
Just made something like 0.8 liters of Tare for the first round.
Edit....the reduction process makes me think I'm closer to 0.3 L .....will see if that works...
I plan on using a smaller equally high container, I do not expect to have a need for 1.5 liters taking up fridge space...already get enough 'feedback' on the number of 'exotic jars in the fridge as is(just two shelves) ;-)
Just made something like 0.8 liters of Tare for the first round.
Edit....the reduction process makes me think I'm closer to 0.3 L .....will see if that works...
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Dan-
Senior Member
You can brush the tare on if you can’t dip.
SiDave
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I really enjoy using my Konro grill.
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so the take home messages are;
-Yakitori ROCKS
-It takes like 5 years to get really good at it...
- it's worth it
- I need a Konro, and real Binchotan (I only reached 700 'C max and I suspect the heat proof stone eats up too much energy
- there is no such thing as too much heat
-I need 1.5 L of tare....and keep it in the fridge, the flavor development in one session was crazy and unanimously perceived.
-I need to cook down the Tare even further
- the cleanliness of the smokiness is unheard of!
I need more Yakitori....
WOW.
-Yakitori ROCKS
-It takes like 5 years to get really good at it...
- it's worth it
- I need a Konro, and real Binchotan (I only reached 700 'C max and I suspect the heat proof stone eats up too much energy
- there is no such thing as too much heat
-I need 1.5 L of tare....and keep it in the fridge, the flavor development in one session was crazy and unanimously perceived.
-I need to cook down the Tare even further
- the cleanliness of the smokiness is unheard of!
I need more Yakitori....
WOW.
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More tare, more better.
For the heat, did you have a manual fan available to get the charcoal hotter? I can really raise the temperature when I fan it. Also helps take out the flare ups. I suggest stacking the charcoal higher so the heat is closer to the chicken. I have mine an inch away at most.
That chicken looks delicious and makes me want to grill.
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I did blow on the coal a lot and indeed that seems to be key, so I'll be using a fan next time!
I also think the thick heat resistant stone I used soak more energy than is good for the process...
At the end I stacked the coal so it was indeed like an inch below the chicken, there sure is more to this than meets the eye but the result is worth the learning curve!
Better chicken next time, a real konro, more mature tare....life is good.
I also think the thick heat resistant stone I used soak more energy than is good for the process...
At the end I stacked the coal so it was indeed like an inch below the chicken, there sure is more to this than meets the eye but the result is worth the learning curve!
Better chicken next time, a real konro, more mature tare....life is good.
