Future of Kitchen Knife Design?

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

DitmasPork

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
5,002
Reaction score
12,022
Location
BROOKLYN, NY
I was just pondering what the future of kitchen knife design will be. When I look at kitchen knives that I’ve acquired, my personal preferences are quite conservative, leaning heavily towards traditional Japanese sensibilities. Performance is important, but not the only factor I consider when buying a knife—there’s aesthetics, buzz, whim, curiosity, needing something new, etc—I buy knives to use, I’m more cook than collector using them daily. Knife collectors collect for different reasons—whether for kitchen use or to keep stashed away to flip when its valuation is favorable, all valid reasons—I’m not about to scoff at someone’s Chelsea Miller collection if that’s what they wish to collect.

Some knives bought and sold to see a lot of action in the kitchen, others to be proudly displayed next to the Philippe Starck orange juicer.

I wholeheartedly support innovation in design, which is healthy for any industry, lest it become stagnant and boring. My two Mazaki for instance, made only 7 months apart have different profiles—will Mazaki-san evolve in an unseen direction down the line, working with powdered steel or carbon fiber handles?

Kitchen knives are inherently tools—profiles haven’t drastically changed for a long time, it’s a sharp piece of metal designed to cop or slice product. Refinements in profile are subtle and derivative, variations on a theme.

Lately I’ve seen a lot of knives pushing the boundaries of conventional knife design—mainly through distinctive handles, or metals, or through multi-purpose designs. I’m curious on which are flash-in-the-pans and which will last the test of time. Some new knife designs look to be the creations of ambitious industrial designers; or market savvy entrepreneurs and chefs.

In 30–40 years, when the old school smiths are no longer producing knives—what will the newer generation of knife makers be making?

When I started surfing in the 70s, that was arguably the heyday of surfboard design innovation—the sport transitioning from long to shortboards, technology allowed for lighter boards, experimentation from shapers like Dick Brewer, Lightning Bolt and Ben Aipa was exciting—pintails, wings, swallow tails. Mark Richards surfing on a twin fin, opened a lot of eyes in the late-70s.

I’d love to jump ahead a couple of decades to see if there are any major changes in kitchen knife designs resulting from newer technology, feedback from cooks, visionary knife makers, shifts in consumer buying habits. Like any other business, it's market-driven to an extent—what will cooks and collectors demand?

Maybe seeing more collaborations—i.e. Kramer/Zwilling, Michael Bras/Kai?

Any thoughts on where knives will end up? Designs that were once the bees knees, appear not lo longer buzz-worthy are Kikuichi TKC, Misono UX10, Global.

Below are a bunch of images of contemporary knives I grabbed from the internet, some with only minor modifications on traditional designs, others not so.

U5puQWF.jpg
 
Last edited:
It's a cool topic to think about, no doubt. There are so many makers trying to push their personal boundaries that we see many interesting ideas pop up independently, only to find that it has been done before.
For example, I was recently dreaming up a way to get more out of a distal taper if I tweaked it around a bit and really pushed a few of it's positive effects to the extreme, then I remembered this thread from a while back:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/wicked-distal-taper.17631/
Two people have already done it very well, one of them over 100 years ago apparently.

Generally speaking, it's difficult to come up with a better version of something as simple as a knife.
 
It's a cool topic to think about, no doubt. There are so many makers trying to push their personal boundaries that we see many interesting ideas pop up independently, only to find that it has been done before.
For example, I was recently dreaming up a way to get more out of a distal taper if I tweaked it around a bit and really pushed a few of it's positive effects to the extreme, then I remembered this thread from a while back:
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/wicked-distal-taper.17631/
Two people have already done it very well, one of them over 100 years ago apparently.

Generally speaking, it's difficult to come up with a better version of something as simple as a knife.

Hey Kippington, as a knife maker how do you balance pushing extremes with making something that's practical? I agree with challenge of coming up with a better version something as simple as a knife—but because design and technology is always evolving, do you think you'd be making different knives if you were doing this 30 years ago?

Fascinating distal taper thread! I guess knife designs are heavily influenced by the objectives of whoever's buying them in combo with the knife maker—symbiotic relationship between kitchen knife makers and cooks.

A working cook might be driven by performance considerations—stainless, tough steel, lasting edge, ergonomics, etc. However a desire for cool factor; or individuality; or ultra performance are compelling reasons to seek knives with rarity value, or a knife with an innovative design, or made of exotic materials.

I feel that with knife designs, familiarity plays a huge role. Take paper clips for instance, the common paper clip based on the "Gem" design is arguably not the best at doing its task, but it is what most people recognize as a paper clip.

I love J-knives, but from a design perspective I dig looking at blades from different cultures. Sharks tooth bread knife?

DiT3Z8D.jpg
 
I think Kipp is spot on. It's a great thing to wonder about but how much can you change about knives that would actually be more than change for the sake of change? You sure can make a square wheel, but why would you? These knives show many design ideas but in practice a lot of them add nothing at best, it's the same reason why the basic design has been the same for centuries.
But then again takedas and masashis are going completely the opposite way and still do a great job, so I guess it's more about the reasoning behind the changes made.
 
There was an idea of amorphous metal/metalic glass knives, but it didn't really go anywhere since these knives were not better than steel knives. The benefit was thought to be ease of production, since they were supposed to be able to be poured to final shape basically. Supposed to be strong and wear resistant, but could fail suddenly.

We will probably see printed knives at some point in not so distant future....
 
There was an idea of amorphous metal/metalic glass knives, but it didn't really go anywhere since these knives were not better than steel knives. The benefit was thought to be ease of production, since they were supposed to be able to be poured to final shape basically. Supposed to be strong and wear resistant, but could fail suddenly.

We will probably see printed knives at some point in not so distant future....

3D Metal Printers!!!!! I know nothing of metallurgy, but the possibilities are intriguing. Print on demand—order a Kato or Shig replica with customized handle and next day delivery. Though a Kato made by Kato will still fetch a bundle on BST.

https://www8.hp.com/us/en/printers/...Vl8DICh1tZQ01EAAYASAAEgLfafD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
 
There's a huge amount of belly in many if not all of these "innovations"... :(
 
Let me take a stab at this. Innovating for the sake of innovation rarely leads to good results. When I read the OP’s post, I immediately started parsing it out.


1. Mettalurgy / new materials. What will be invented that has better cutting properties than our current lineup of blade materials. Yes, defining “better” has its own pitfalls, but on the net- materials science will improve.

2. Aesthetics- what will people in the future expect. The classics will likely continue to exist, but how will the shape/look/feel change in the future to accommodate changing tastes.

3. Use case... will we use knives differently in the future (spurred by different diets, different preparation needs, etc)
 
I just hope some of the "standards" remain as templates for knife makers. There are a few classic (for double bevel) Japanese blade shapes that hold my interest, like nakiri and long petty/mini-sujihiki. Maybe a "real" suji at some point. I like having a selection to choose from different makers with these classic blade profiles. I assume gyuto fans feel the same.

When the designs explode out into all these crazy futuristic shapes, you're no longer comparing individual knife makers making similar things. That may be good marketing for the makers, but it's terrible for the end user.

There may be some technology progress in metallurgy, but I'm reminded of the state of transportation tech. Notice how we're not flying in supersonic airliners? There may be room for growth in low-level autonomous drone aircraft, but sometimes technology does reach a limit that will take more than our lifetimes to jump to the "next level." I think kitchen knives are that point now. At least for anything you'd be able to sharpen yourself, at home or on the job (i.e. leaving out miracle never-sharpen ceramics).
 
https://www.ferrumtechnology.com/design/

This US knife is so far the only I know made with metal injection molding process. I find this interesting as it foregoes both forging and stock removal. It also seems suitable as a means to mass produce shapes that are difficult to make exactly right with little skill by traditional methods such as a hook grind or a good S-grind.

I am looking forward to see if this technology eventually combines the freedom of shape given by forging with the reproducability and accuracy of stock removal, and whether it can maintain steel quality at the same level. I am also interested in environmental impact performance. Forging requires a lot of heat, stock removal wastes a lot of metal. MIM involves resins at some point which is usually bad news, still would love to see a life cycle analysis. If energy savings are significant it usually goes a long way.
 
Richards the wounded gull, twin fin fish boards. High performance surfboards have gotten lighter for aerials. They also break easier. Finding other members here who surfed:)

A lot of it is cultural. Fascination with hand forged knives and freehand sharpening is not the norm. Even as Japan in a short time modernized during the Meiji revolution, cultural traditions remained.

In our throw away society kitchen knives for the masses are made lowest common denominator when the pull through motorized sharpeners eventually destroy the mediocre edges time to buy another cheap knife when they don't cut anymore.

Reliability of many things like toasters, water heaters, washing machines etc. has gone way down. They are built to fall apart not like a 1970's Maytag that last 50 years with minor repairs you can do yourself.

Persons who work with kitchen knives, wood chisels, other special blades have to learn to sharpen to achieve superior function.

Many of the best kitchen knives are being produced now, hammer forged by traditional and custom makers. Only a small % use and sharpen them. I think there are a lot more cheap carbon blades in back lanes & third world countries & dudes who know how to put an edge on them.
 
It's a little off the kitchen knife topic, but every so often I like to look into the past and see what the smiths-of-old did to adopt proven working designs and add their own twists to them. Take a guess what country this comes from!
128-k017.jpg

Maybe we'll go back to less generalised knives, with a specific knife for the job at hand? It's actually quite difficult to see that happening, but I don't see the shape of the good'ol 'cow knife' changing much...
 
when we gonna get laser beam cutters?
Never. The way it is going, all knives will be deemed weapons and too dangerous for the masses. We’ll get mandolins and similar devices to make sure we don’t hurt ourselves accidentally.
 
At it's heart, a kitchen knife one of the "simple machines" defined in the Renaissance, the wedge. Perhaps also the lever when you consider the leverage at the handle when running through the belly.

Into any "innovation" will be only a very small incremental increase in some limited performance parameter. There's almost always a trade off in optimizing one aspect. Make a laser and then you get stiction and poor food release. A workhorse may crack tall hard foods.
 
when we gonna get laser beam cutters?
This thought occurred to me for a fleeting moment. But then another thought came: fingers! :eek:
Of course, technology might be able to differentiate 'twixt produce on the board and living human flesh so the concept can't be dismissed forever.

Edit: The whole concept is seriously flawed. With current technology and ignoring safety concerns, cutting with a laser introduces cooking/searing/burning at the same time. So for now it's just a science fiction brain fart.
 
Last edited:
Maybe knives with Steel that includes carbon Nanotubes. This has added interesting properties to other metals.
 
3D Metal Printers!!!!! I know nothing of metallurgy, but the possibilities are intriguing. Print on demand—order a Kato or Shig replica with customized handle and next day delivery. Though a Kato made by Kato will still fetch a bundle on BST.

https://www8.hp.com/us/en/printers/...Vl8DICh1tZQ01EAAYASAAEgLfafD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
That's an ominous thought. But I guess that will appeal to those who also buy knockoff Rolex watches, prints of real art and anything with some 'celebrity' signature on it.
 
I know a lot more about surfboards than knives, started in 1962 at age 10, my hobby for several years now is finding junk boards and re finishing them and giving them away to young kids, you know the ones you see standing on the beach wishing they had a board.
One would think if there would be a major change in knife performance, it would come from a new steel rather than design.
 
eeOF3PI.jpg

This is a photo of me with my surfboard, taken a couple of years ago at my parents. The surfboard was custom made by a North Shore shaper back in 1978—a double-winged pintail with channels under each wing, single-fin, 6’2” in height. It’s basic profile and materials—polystyrene foam and fiberglass—is not dramatically different for surfboards being made now. Back then, designs were drawn out on paper, shaping finessed by eye. Today most shapers use computers to fine-tune designs, aqua dynamics—graphics, like that ugly clover on mine were hand drawn back then.

jXhNvT5.jpg

Here’s a picture of Greg “Da Bull” Noll, circa 1964, with his board in his iconic Pipeline photo. His board made only about 14 years earlier than my 70s board. He shaped his own board—can’t remember if this one’s balsa wood or early foam/fiber glass. [That board is now valued at over 100K.]

The board I first learned on was my uncle’s solid wood 13 footer. I could stand on it in still water.

Point I’m trying to make in a round about way is that in design history—influenced by technology, new materials, trends, etc.—there of innovations that drastically change how things are made and used. For instance, the Masamoto KS, which is arguably one of the most referenced J-Knife profiles is quite new in the grand scheme of things. Not sure when the KS was first produced?

When I bought my Wustof Chef knife in the early 80s, it was a mind-blowing jump in metal quality and design compared to the crap, dull knives at my parent’s home.

They’ll always be a market for kitchen knives that’s traditionally made by hand. Design history, new technology and materials, are there to aid modern knife makers in their craft. I.e. could 3D Metal printers be of use for knife makers to make prototypes for testing grind angles, profiles, etc.?
 
I know a lot more about surfboards than knives, started in 1962 at age 10, my hobby for several years now is finding junk boards and re finishing them and giving them away to young kids, you know the ones you see standing on the beach wishing they had a board.
One would think if there would be a major change in knife performance, it would come from a new steel rather than design.

That was my thought too. Is it so inconceivable to imagine a stainless steel that outperforms carbon, for instance? Obviously I have no idea what I’m talking about metallurgically, but this at least seems like a problem that is currently being worked on, and with some success given that there are a bunch of reasonable stainless steels out there now that weren’t around 20 yrs ago. Maybe in 100 years, we’ll only get non-stainless knives for nostalgia, or if we’re patina-freaks.
 
It's a little off the kitchen knife topic, but every so often I like to look into the past and see what the smiths-of-old did to adopt proven working designs and add their own twists to them. Take a guess what country this comes from!
128-k017.jpg

Maybe we'll go back to less generalised knives, with a specific knife for the job at hand? It's actually quite difficult to see that happening, but I don't see the shape of the good'ol 'cow knife' changing much...

Not off topic at all! I appreciate the usefulness of inspirations from wherever is come from. Like with cooking, it would be a bit boring to get inspired solely from other chefs or cookbooks—traveling, venturing through ethnic markets, the food still life paintings by William Merritt Chase rock my boat.

wJtCzX6.jpg
 
1972 G&S 6'6 swallow tail Alticalma Mexico

Classic!!! Always wanted to try a G&S, can't remember ever seeing them sold in Hawai'i back when I surfed—they were more the surfboards of Aussies and mainlanders.

Remember kneeboarding??!! I knew a bunch of hardcore kneeboarders in the 70s. Tom Morey's invention of the Boogie board basically killed kneeboarding—they were lighter, cheaper, more versatile.
https://www.surfer.com/blogs/random-happenings/kneeboarding-aint-dead/

Another groundbreaking invention. Do you recall Churchill Swimfins? Best bodysurfing fins in the day—that distinctive shape and green color.
 
Back
Top