High end frying pan recommendation

[MarcelNL]

the Debuyere carbon steel frying pan is anything but thin ;-) It's a great pan too.

 

[TB_London]

I think I fell in love with the new frying pan, it 'magically' loses it's magnetic properties over 250'C so burning on an induction stove is not an issue (which it is with the carbon Debuyere I recently discovered)

That is pretty magic as the curie point for iron is 770c . Can’t think of any scientific way to do that

 

[DavidPF]

Can’t think of any scientific way to do that

Maybe they used an unscientific way.

 

[coxhaus]

I think a lot of people prefer thin carbon steel pans exactly because they seem to send all of the heat straight into the food pretty much instantly. That's a good feature - until it isn't.

I like my Debuyere carbon 12-inch pan very much but it does show hot spots on my gas range which I don't seem to see on my new All Clad D5 10-inch pan. I wish I had remote temperature gage so I could see if both pans come up to the same temperature. I wonder if you add all that shielding that maybe the pan will run at a lower temperature. And even if it does is that a problem? That I don't know.

 

[DavidPF]

And even if it does is that a problem? That I don't know.

IMO the right tests to do on a pan are cooking what you want to cook. If there's a difference but you don't notice it while cooking, and the dish turns out the same, then to me that's a "no-difference difference".

 

[MarcelNL]

Curie temperature of materials[2][3][4]

Material	Curie temperature (K)
Iron (Fe)	1043
Cobalt (Co)	1400
Nickel (Ni)	627
Gadolinium (Gd)	292
Dysprosium (Dy)	88
Manganese bismuthide (MnBi)	630
Manganese antimonide (MnSb)	587
Chromium(IV) oxide (CrO2)	386
Manganese arsenide (MnAs)	318
Europium oxide (EuO)	69
Iron(III) oxide (Fe2O3)	948
Iron(II,III) oxide (FeOFe2O3)	858
NiO–Fe2O3	858
CuO–Fe2O3	728
MgO–Fe2O3	713
MnO–Fe2O3	573
Yttrium iron garnet (Y3Fe5O12)	560
Neodymium magnets	583–673
Alnico	973–1133
Samarium–cobalt magnets	993–1073
Strontium ferrite	723

take your pick, I just hope they did not go for one of the more scary ones

 

[DavidPF]

Curie temperature of materials[2][3][4]

Material	Curie temperature (K)
Iron (Fe)	1043
Cobalt (Co)	1400
Nickel (Ni)	627
Gadolinium (Gd)	292
Dysprosium (Dy)	88
Manganese bismuthide (MnBi)	630
Manganese antimonide (MnSb)	587
Chromium(IV) oxide (CrO2)	386
Manganese arsenide (MnAs)	318
Europium oxide (EuO)	69
Iron(III) oxide (Fe2O3)	948
Iron(II,III) oxide (FeOFe2O3)	858
NiO–Fe2O3	858
CuO–Fe2O3	728
MgO–Fe2O3	713
MnO–Fe2O3	573
Yttrium iron garnet (Y3Fe5O12)	560
Neodymium magnets	583–673
Alnico	973–1133
Samarium–cobalt magnets	993–1073
Strontium ferrite	723

take your pick, I just hope they did not go for one of the more scary ones

Apparently there have been relatively recent experiments with various gadolinium alloys, specifically for the purpose of manipulating Curie temperatures. Sounds possible to me, but I don't know metals.

(My source was Wikipedia, so even less reason to trust me)

 

[DavidPF]

And even if it does is that a problem? That I don't know

I should clarify that I think special tests have their place in the right context. I think the right context is having all the testing equipment and doing all the tests on lots of pans, while taking notes and making your results reproducible - basically becoming "that pan testing guy", so that what you find out isn't just an isolated data point.

I don't want to do that, so if I'm interested I look at the results of the people who do.

Pans are IMO easier to choose than knives, because while a bad knife ruins your kitchen experience, a bad pan directly ruins your food. People who only know poor-quality knives can still make excellent food with difficulty; people who only know poor-quality pans are in bigger trouble. So for pans, consulting a few people who make really good food and copying their choices is good enough for (almost) anyone. In contrast, we all know there are some pretty good cooks who have got by without learning much about choosing knives. (And people like Pépin who seem to visualize the correct result so strongly that in their hands any pointed stick will be forced to act like a knife. )

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I should clarify that I think special tests have their place in the right context. I think the right context is having all the testing equipment and doing all the tests on lots of pans, while taking notes and making your results reproducible - basically becoming "that pan testing guy", so that what you find out isn't just an isolated data point.

I don't want to do that, so if I'm interested I look at the results of the people who do.

Pans are IMO easier to choose than knives, because while a bad knife ruins your kitchen experience, a bad pan directly ruins your food. People who only know poor-quality knives can still make excellent food with difficulty; people who only know poor-quality pans are in bigger trouble. So for pans, consulting a few people who make really good food and copying their choices is good enough for (almost) anyone. In contrast, we all know there are some pretty good cooks who have got by without learning much about choosing knives. (And people like Pépin who seem to visualize the correct result so strongly that in their hands any pointed stick will be forced to act like a knife. )

Have you ever seen the pans on stoves in high paced kitchens? Even high-end kitchens? Diners? They are often bent, warped, rickety handles, super thin, etc. They seem to get by.

 

[DavidPF]

Have you ever seen the pans on stoves in high paced kitchens? Even high-end kitchens? Diners? They are often bent, warped, rickety handles, super thin, etc. They seem to get by.

But what they say they like to use can generally be trusted, that's what I was trying to get at. (Unless they're being paid to say it)

 

[rmrf]

Pans are IMO easier to choose than knives, because while a bad knife ruins your kitchen experience, a bad pan directly ruins your food.

Have you ever seen the pans on stoves in high paced kitchens? Even high-end kitchens? Diners? They are often bent, warped, rickety handles, super thin, etc. They seem to get by.

Stove choice matters a lot too. I'd bet that professional kitchens have a lot more power and the heat source (gas) is a lot more uniform than the majority of home kitchens. The pace of cooking probably matters as well. I know I can warp pretty much any pan I want by deglazing at too high of temperatures. I can afford to wait for my pan to cool, but a pro-cook might not. Cost might be another factor: replacing a cheap pan 10 times is cheaper than replacing a good pan twice.

For a home cook, I think you should pick cookware based on your stove and the kinds of food you want to make / the style of food you want to cook. With my induction stove, when I want even heat and high heat capacity for stir fry I choose demeyere. For the same purpose on my outdoor grill, I have a thick vollrath aluminum pan. I could use cast iron, but a 14'' cast iron pan sounded too heavy.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Stove choice matters a lot too. I'd bet that professional kitchens have a lot more power and the heat source (gas) is a lot more uniform than the majority of home kitchens. The pace of cooking probably matters as well. I know I can warp pretty much any pan I want by deglazing at too high of temperatures. I can afford to wait for my pan to cool, but a pro-cook might not. Cost might be another factor: replacing a cheap pan 10 times is cheaper than replacing a good pan twice.

For a home cook, I think you should pick cookware based on your stove and the kinds of food you want to make / the style of food you want to cook. With my induction stove, when I want even heat and high heat capacity for stir fry I choose demeyere. For the same purpose on my outdoor grill, I have a thick vollrath aluminum pan. I could use cast iron, but a 14'' cast iron pan sounded too heavy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate for good cookware.

 

[RockyBasel]

I’m live in CH, induction country.for induction, is it fair to surmise that the posts on this thread recommend All Clad for induction stoves. I don’t want to hijack the OP’s thread, but urgent need to buy a new pan- currently I have and 1 good all clad and an amazing Mauviel with a cast iron handle - incredibly heavy and great on gas. But useless here in induction-centric CH - just sits in the basement

Is there a better induction alternative to All Cladnstainless?

 

[nwshull]

I like my Debuyere carbon 12-inch pan very much but it does show hot spots on my gas range which I don't seem to see on my new All Clad D5 10-inch pan. I wish I had remote temperature gage so I could see if both pans come up to the same temperature. I wonder if you add all that shielding that maybe the pan will run at a lower temperature. And even if it does is that a problem? That I don't know.

Yeah, carbon steel pans store heat better, but they do not transfer heat efficiently around the pan. In terms of their properties they are pretty similar to cast iron, in fact I am pretty sure generally more iron than cast iron. If you want the heat truly even, you're better off heating it up in the oven then transferring it to the stove top.

All clad are either aluminum or copper in the middle, so they transfer the heat and disperse it much quicker and more evenly, including to the food as well. However, the food saps the heat energy much faster as well. That higher heat resevoir in the carbon steel pan or cast iron pan is what makes it better for browning, but not as good at tasks that require even distribution of heat or low even heat. If you have the money and can only go with one, All Clad or some equivalent stainless is the best option. But a carbon steel pan is relatively cheap, so its a nice add on, I like more than cast iron.

 

[rmrf]

I’m live in CH, induction country.for induction, is it fair to surmise that the posts on this thread recommend All Clad for induction stoves. I don’t want to hijack the OP’s thread, but urgent need to buy a new pan- currently I have and 1 good all clad and an amazing Mauviel with a cast iron handle - incredibly heavy and great on gas. But useless here in induction-centric CH - just sits in the basement

Is there a better induction alternative to All Cladnstainless?

Demeyere is pretty good if you are ok with a high heat capacity (slow reacting) pan on induction. I find it gets hotter and the heat is more even than all-clad D3 or D5 on induction. They can be very pricey, however. They are also extremely heavy.

I personally think cast iron and carbon steel have too many hot spots to be useful at 12 inch diameter pans.

There are also a few disk bottom pans that are supposed to be very good. I have a massive Paderno World cuisine but I don't use it enough to be able to tell you how even it is.

 

[big_adventure]

I read some write up where, I think Wirecutter at the NYTimes, tested a bunch of stuff and decided All-Clad was the way to go.

For me, my building doesn't have gas, so I'm on induction. Cast iron and thick carbon steel work great, they just require you to plan ahead to get even heat. I generally have no issue doing that when I want to cook something, so it works for me. I throw the pan on there and start heating it pretty low, dry except for the ever-present seasoning, for at least 5 or more minutes. Then I add whatever I need to add first (often fat, but it depends of course) and go from there.

A wok is OK there as well - you just need a flat-bottom one and hopefully a powerful induction cooktop. I have 2, one carbon and one non-stick. I'd prefer a gas burner, but counterspace is at a premium here and kids running about don't make you confident for explosive fires.

And after, hell, I've got a mish-mash of things: a couple of Tefals given to me, a couple of Guy Degrennes that my ex-wife and I bought 17 years ago,

An idea for you: pick up a cheap carbon-steel pan, a cheap carbon steel wok and a potent gas burner and go to town with those. Get everything for 150 bucks or so.

 

[DavidPF]

I’m live in CH, induction country.for induction, is it fair to surmise that the posts on this thread recommend All Clad for induction stoves. I don’t want to hijack the OP’s thread, but urgent need to buy a new pan- currently I have and 1 good all clad and an amazing Mauviel with a cast iron handle - incredibly heavy and great on gas. But useless here in induction-centric CH - just sits in the basement

Is there a better induction alternative to All Cladnstainless?

@MarcelNL with his recent mention of Demeyere ControlInduc - which loses its ability to absorb induction energy when the pan reaches overheating temperature - is certainly very interesting. I believe his is non-stick but I think they're available without that too. I don't know whether any special cooking techniques are "regulated out of existence" by this prevention of overheating, which is said to cut off the heat around 250°C.

 

[MarcelNL]

@MarcelNL with his recent mention of Demeyere ControlInduc - which loses its ability to absorb induction energy when the pan reaches overheating temperature - is certainly very interesting. I believe his is non-stick but I think they're available without that too. I don't know whether any special cooking techniques are "regulated out of existence" by this prevention of overheating, which is said to cut off the heat around 250°C.

yeah that is a non stick pan (Teflon based coating, they say it'll last at least 5 years so I am storing the receipt) and I have to say that I was sceptical at buying but absolutely adore the pan.

For seriously high heat the Debuyer induction version of the carbon does great, yet it makes you cooking at the immediate risk of cremating stuff in the pan.... (happened to me twice when I was enthusiastically keeping max power under it)

 

[DavidPF]

yeah that is a non stick pan (Teflon based coating, they say it'll last at least 5 years so I am storing the receipt) and I have to say that I was sceptical at buying but absolutely adore the pan.

All they need now is to reconsider the name. It looks funny on a computer screen where l and I look similar, plus it introduces this strange fantasy character Controlling Duck who is waiting and watching for his chance to take over the kitchen.

Is there anything you feel you can't do with this heat limitation? It seems high enough to me that it wouldn't exclude much of anything other than completely burning food.

 

[MarcelNL]

they did, it's called inducontrol....I now see, not that THAT is any better

 

[DavidPF]

they did, it's called inducontrol....I now see, not that THAT is any better

Maybe they could call it "I'm Hot And I'm Not Crazy - It's Safe To Take Me Home"

Hmmmm, too long.

 

[RockyBasel]

Extremely helpful - I have too good pans to consider now. Thanks for the advice

 

[Jovidah]

All Clad doesn't really cater to the European market so they'll be really hard to get in Europe and excessively pricey. The top tier stainless pan producer in Europe to look at is DeMeyere (part of Zwiling group since a few years). Also really pricey, but looks top notch. From what I've seen it's not going to be any worse than All-Clad, but it will be on the heavy side.

Carbon steel stuff like DeBuyer is technically compatible and will work, but the heat won't be as even as on the top end triply stuff. Whether that's a problem largely depends on the quality of your stove and how much you care.

I don't really see the point of that ControlInduc stuff from deMeyere. Looks too much like it's catering to incompetent housewifes or something. It's been on the market for a while so I guess it probably works as advertised... I just don't really see the added value. I guess you could use it to stretch to keep you from burning your teflon but personally I think buying expensive teflon pans is a waste; in the end they're still a disposable product that won't last. Better off shopping in the bang-for-your-buck category for those.

 

[DavidPF]

Where I am, there are Zwilling-branded triple ply pans that I'd consider the equal of All Clad. Perhaps those are readily available in Europe.

 

[jankdc]

I’m live in CH, induction country.for induction, is it fair to surmise that the posts on this thread recommend All Clad for induction stoves. I don’t want to hijack the OP’s thread, but urgent need to buy a new pan- currently I have and 1 good all clad and an amazing Mauviel with a cast iron handle - incredibly heavy and great on gas. But useless here in induction-centric CH - just sits in the basement

Is there a better induction alternative to All Cladnstainless?

I use induction and I love my Fissler pots and pans. I'm gradually adding more to my collection. They work great on induction. Fissler should definitely be among the pans you consider.

 

[Famima]

I’m live in CH, induction country.for induction, is it fair to surmise that the posts on this thread recommend All Clad for induction stoves. I don’t want to hijack the OP’s thread, but urgent need to buy a new pan- currently I have and 1 good all clad and an amazing Mauviel with a cast iron handle - incredibly heavy and great on gas. But useless here in induction-centric CH - just sits in the basement

Is there a better induction alternative to All Cladnstainless?

In CH check out Noser Inox - Bratpfannen - Haushalt

They're ubiquitous in commercial kitchens, well made and great value. I don't use induction, but can't see why a decent disc bottom frying pan wouldn't be ideal - ply pans only make sense for me on gas, where you are trying to avoid hot spots where the disc ends and the flame hits the steel directly.

 

[Famima]

I use induction and I love my Fissler pots and pans. I'm gradually adding more to my collection. They work great on induction. Fissler should definitely be among the pans you consider.

I have a big Fissler frying pan - the one thing about it, is that the base is thick and it holds a lot of heat. Great for searing big bits of meat (i.e. get the pan hot and keep it hot), rather less good for either tossing (due to weight) or fine control of cooking temperature (easy to overshoot both ways). One thing to bear in mind with these...

 

[MarcelNL]

I don't really see the point of that ControlInduc stuff from deMeyere. Looks too much like it's catering to incompetent housewifes or something. It's been on the market for a while so I guess it probably works as advertised... I just don't really see the added value. I guess you could use it to stretch to keep you from burning your teflon but personally I think buying expensive teflon pans is a waste; in the end they're still a disposable product that won't last. Better off shopping in the bang-for-your-buck category for those.

I bought it to ensure the non stick coating would evaporate within weeks having a couple of teens who sometimes 'cook' stuff, against those odds no cheap non stick pan can compete ...I recently threw out a fairly new pan in which one of them made, well rather; cremated, oatmeal.

So far it does cater for my incompetence too as it seems to work keeping a great balance between frying and not burning.

+1 on the warning for the weight on the Fissler frying pans, tossing makes using them a work-out

 

[Olsen]

I can only say copper. Cast iron has its merits but beside that forget all that aluminium/stainless steel cookware. Mauviel (their 250), Bourgeat or Falk. If you have induction Falk's new Coppercore works on induction. It is the best and not that expensive. Beside a lot of Mauviel and Bourgeat I have some Falk and also two pieces in Coppercore (a pan and a sauteuse). I bougth to test them even though I have gas. A friend of mine has induction, he borrowed them an absolutely loves them! Forget tin lined copper pans. The tin coating is too fragile and retining is expensive (and where can you have it done anyway?)

 

[DavidPF]

I can only say copper.

I get that you like the copper, but what have you personally done with it that you couldn't have done with your other pans?
Real copper cookware is expensive and heavy, so there's not much point in buying it unless it does things that other really good cookware can't do.