Japanese Knife Tier List

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Infrared said:
Must've missed this when it was first posted.

Do you actually think there's something wrong with comparing knives?
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In this format? Yes. Far too simplistic and lacks any nuance IMO.

I’m general I think it’s fine so long as everything is properly contextualized. I’ve owned knives that were special just because of the steel (Nagahiro <3). I’ve owned knives for the unique materials they’re made from. Some knives I have really excel only at certain tasks but are great all around. And so on… I also think there is a lot of je ne sais quoi that is lost in a tier list like this. Some knives just have it and some don’t. A lot of the high end Sakai stuff (and Toyama stainless) are great performers but don’t do it for me. Does that make them “low tier?”

Idk, I think this type of attempt at definitive rankings leads to a race to try and quantitatively choose a best and chase after that and eliminates a lot of the joy I find in enjoying each of my knives as tools with strengths and weakness and character their own.
 
ethompson said:
In this format? Yes. Far too simplistic and lacks any nuance IMO.

I’m general I think it’s fine so long as everything is properly contextualized. I’ve owned knives that were special just because of the steel (Nagahiro <3). I’ve owned knives for the unique materials they’re made from. Some knives I have really excel only at certain tasks but are great all around. And so on… I also think there is a lot of je ne sais quoi that is lost in a tier list like this. Some knives just have it and some don’t. A lot of the high end Sakai stuff (and Toyama stainless) are great performers but don’t do it for me. Does that make them “low tier?”

Idk, I think this type of attempt at definitive rankings leads to a race to try and quantitatively choose a best and chase after that and eliminates a lot of the joy I find in enjoying each of my knives as tools with strengths and weakness and character their own.
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agree. there’s so much subjectivity in comparing knives.

I enjoy my vintage, well loved Sabs; my wabisabi-rich KnifeJapan knives; and also my flawless Gesshin Ittetsu $650 gyuto, equally. It wouldn’t be an easy decision to part with any of them.
 
ethompson said:
In this format? Yes. Far too simplistic and lacks any nuance IMO.

I’m general I think it’s fine so long as everything is properly contextualized. I’ve owned knives that were special just because of the steel (Nagahiro <3). I’ve owned knives for the unique materials they’re made from. Some knives I have really excel only at certain tasks but are great all around. And so on… I also think there is a lot of je ne sais quoi that is lost in a tier list like this.
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What additional information would you find helpful? I deliberately left a lot of information out so there could be discussions instead of a boring, static list.

These are obviously my opinions and I clearly stated that cutting performance was the priority in making the list. But I definitely should have had a few in-depth reviews before I made this list (like the Yoshimitsu one I just posted).

And the "je ne sais quoi" thing is always an issue when you're reading and writing about knives and not actually using them. But realistically there are too many knives out there for any one person to use, so I think a list like this can help steer someone in the right direction.

ethompson said:
A lot of the high end Sakai stuff (and Toyama stainless) are great performers but don’t do it for me. Does that make them “low tier?”
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What don't you like about them?

ethompson said:
Idk, I think this type of attempt at definitive rankings leads to a race to try and quantitatively choose a best and chase after that and eliminates a lot of the joy I find in enjoying each of my knives as tools with strengths and weakness and character their own.
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Nothing definitive about it. Just one tool among many.
 
ethompson said:
In this format? Yes. Far too simplistic and lacks any nuance IMO.

I’m general I think it’s fine so long as everything is properly contextualized. I’ve owned knives that were special just because of the steel (Nagahiro <3). I’ve owned knives for the unique materials they’re made from. Some knives I have really excel only at certain tasks but are great all around. And so on… I also think there is a lot of je ne sais quoi that is lost in a tier list like this. Some knives just have it and some don’t. A lot of the high end Sakai stuff (and Toyama stainless) are great performers but don’t do it for me. Does that make them “low tier?”

Idk, I think this type of attempt at definitive rankings leads to a race to try and quantitatively choose a best and chase after that and eliminates a lot of the joy I find in enjoying each of my knives as tools with strengths and weakness and character their own.
Click to expand...
Agreed with this, right now I am in the stage of collecting where I am just looking for what's different, not something that can do everything perfectly. Early on I wanted one or 2 knives that did absolutely everything but as time has gone on, I have just really enjoyed trying things that are really different
 
ethompson said:
Idk, I think this type of attempt at definitive rankings leads to a race to try and quantitatively choose a best and chase after that and eliminates a lot of the joy I find in enjoying each of my knives as tools with strengths and weakness and character their own
Click to expand...

Robert Parker KnifeScore[tm]: 97.5/100
 
OP is getting some “fire” for his ranking but I personally think it’s a good excessive. Having said that, it’s a very personal thing and as we know knives differ from one to another. Also personal preferences change with time.
 
Thought it'd be a good time to update the list.

Changes and additions are in bold.

[S Tier]
Okubo Kajiya Blue #2 Migaki
Kuwabara White #2 --- Review

[A Tier]
Kaji-bei White #2
Shibata Koutetsu R2/SG2
Nojiyama Marunaka Blue #2 Kurouchi
Mikami Hamono Blue #1
Tsubaki Blue #2 [Miyazaki]
Yoshimitsu Fugen White #1 --- Review
Yuta Katayama VG10 "Diamond" Damascus
Murata Buho Blue #1
Yu Kurosaki Shizuku R2/SG2
Takamura R2/SG2
Toyama Noborikoi Blue #2 Stainless Clad
Munetoshi White #2 Kurouchi Nashiji
Moritaka Blue Super
Nakamura Hamono HAP40

[B Tier]
Masutani VG10 Damascus
Nishida White #1 Polished
Fukushima Blue #2
Matsubara Hamono White #1
Yosimitu White #2 [Custom]
Muneishi Blue #2 Kurouchi
Kanjo HAP40 (Western handle) --- Review
Motokyuichi White #2 --- Review
Minamoto no Masakane (Unknown Carbon Steel)
Fukamizu Hamono Silver #3

[C Tier]
Yoshikazu Tanaka White #2 Migaki (Sharpener: Ajioka)
Yoshimune White #2 Stainless Clad
Karaku Blue #1
Takeda Classic Blue Super

[D Tier (Probably need thinning)]
Fujiwara Maboroshi White #1 Stainless Clad
Saji Blue #2 Rainbow Damascus (Stag Horn Handle)

I have some interesting knives and reviews coming up.

As always, feel free to ask any questions.
 
I never had any issues with wedging on my Itadaki. My only complaint was reactivity but the grind was fine. And the original edge was outright blunt.
 
Jovidah said:
I never had any issues with wedging on my Itadaki. My only complaint was reactivity but the grind was fine. And the original edge was outright blunt.
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A quick search on Miura shows a lot knives with the same name and different variations.

The one I have is reference number ka2116.
 
Odd, then there must be some variety on them, since I had the same model. Or did you test it with the original edge (or lack thereof)?
 
I definitely sharpened it before use. I personally found it to be one of the worst wedging knives I've used.

I'll try to do a video of it sooner rather than later.
 
blokey said:
Did you get the Okubo gyuto? Always wanted to try those
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I requested a 210mm knife (did not specify a shape) that's good at cutting both carrots and potatoes, and this is what I got.

20230828_071950.jpg

I'm actually in the middle recording some footage for a review. I should be done in a week or two.

A quick summary is that it's probably the best knife I've used. No wedging and minimal sticking. Best blue #2 steel I've experienced. Similar to Toyama, but better.
 
Infrared said:
I requested a 210mm knife (did not specify a shape) that's good at cutting both carrots and potatoes, and this is what I got.

View attachment 265100

I'm actually in the middle recording some footage for a review. I should be done in a week or two.

A quick summary is that it's probably the best knife I've used. No wedging and minimal sticking. Best blue #2 steel I've experienced. Similar to Toyama, but better.
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Sounds great! I have a Nakiri order with them, can’t wait to get my hands on
 
Infrared said:
I requested a 210mm knife (did not specify a shape) that's good at cutting both carrots and potatoes, and this is what I got.

View attachment 265100

I'm actually in the middle recording some footage for a review. I should be done in a week or two.

A quick summary is that it's probably the best knife I've used. No wedging and minimal sticking. Best blue #2 steel I've experienced. Similar to Toyama, but better.
Click to expand...
nice! did you specify a Migaki finish? I usually see KU for his knives
 
Another update. Thought I'd have more knives on the list by now, but I really like going back and using the previous ones again and again.

Changes and additions are in bold.

[S Tier]
Okubo Kajiya Blue #2 Migaki --- Review
Kuwabara White #2 --- Review

[A Tier]
Wakui White #2 Stainless Clad Migaki
Kaji-bei White #2 --- Review
Shibata Koutetsu R2/SG2
Nojiyama Marunaka Blue #2 Kurouchi
Mikami Hamono Blue #1
Tsubaki Blue #2 [Miyazaki]
Yoshimitsu Fugen White #1 --- Review
Yuta Katayama VG10 "Diamond" Damascus
Murata Buho Blue #1
Yu Kurosaki Shizuku R2/SG2
Takamura R2/SG2
Toyama Noborikoi Blue #2 Stainless Clad
Munetoshi White #2 Kurouchi Nashiji
Moritaka Blue Super
Nakamura Hamono HAP40 --- Review
Kajiwara Blue #2 Damascus


[B Tier]
Ikenami Hamono White #1
Sasaoka Hasamiya Blue #2
Masutani VG10 Damascus
Nishida White #1 Polished
Fukushima Blue #2
Matsubara Hamono White #1
Yosimitu White #2 [Custom]
Muneishi Blue #2 Kurouchi
Kanjo HAP40 (Western handle) --- Review
Motokyuichi White #2 --- Review
Minamoto no Masakane (Unknown Carbon Steel)
Fukamizu Hamono Silver #3

[C Tier]
Yoshikazu Tanaka White #2 Migaki (Sharpener: Ajioka)
Yoshimune White #2 Stainless Clad
Karaku Blue #1
Takeda Classic Blue Super

[D Tier (Probably need thinning)]
Fujiwara Maboroshi White #1 Stainless Clad --- Review
Saji Blue #2 Rainbow Damascus (Stag Horn Handle)

[F Tier]
Mikisyo Blue #2
 
This was a fun thread to find. A tier list, even without context, is fun. I'm going to back you up on that Wakui. I have and EpicEdge one from years ago and its one of my favorites.

What make Mikisyo invent a new tier?
 
Tea_Hills said:
What make Mikisyo invent a new tier?
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It can barely cut, has massive steering to the left, and the steel feels strange (bad heat treat?) It seems like the knife is only 30% complete.

Interestingly enough, I have another knife (white #2) from the same maker that looks like a proper knife. Maybe I got a dud?
 
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