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Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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harken said:
I have no idea how he manages to turn a profit.
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I am more worried about how the bladesmiths manage to turn a profit with greedy distributors like that. Or better how the bladesmiths adjust the quality long-term to be able to make blades at that price.
It is real easy to see that pushing prices further and further down is neither good for the art nor the artists.

(Unless you do it like TF:lower quality and raise prices)
 
jaydee said:
I am more worried about how the bladesmiths manage to turn a profit with greedy distributors like that. Or better how the bladesmiths adjust the quality long-term to be able to make blades at that price.
It is real easy to see that pushing prices further and further down is neither good for the art nor the artists.

(Unless you do it like TF:lower quality and raise prices)
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He's not being greedy. He's already paid the smith/shop.

I would guess a 30-50% markup is common on these products.

He's cutting into his own markup. The smith is out nothing.
 
THESE NUMBERS ARE MADE UP

I have no idea what Phil's real number are at the Homebutcher, but this should get the point across.

Let's say Phil bought 10 blades at a cost of $300, his overhead is $30/knife, for a cost of $3300 total

It looks like his retail price is $435/knife (I'm guessing as the shop is showing me Canadian). Sell all 10 for that is $4350, for a profit of $1050.

Or he could have sold 8 knives at $435, making $3480. He has now covered his costs for the lot. He now fibs a bit, puts a post up on Instagram saying "1 knife available for $250". He sells the last two for $500 as profit as he covered his costs with the first 8. He's made $680 on the batch of 10.

He made a little less, but he likely moved his inventory faster (which is good, because product on the floor costs $/minute it's sitting there). As well, that fast movement could be a benefit because he may have bought the stock on credit, so he moved the knives before interest started accruing.
 
jaydee said:
I am more worried about how the bladesmiths manage to turn a profit with greedy distributors like that. Or better how the bladesmiths adjust the quality long-term to be able to make blades at that price.
It is real easy to see that pushing prices further and further down is neither good for the art nor the artists.

(Unless you do it like TF:lower quality and raise prices)
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You can't increase prices and decrease quality. Or you could for a very short period of time on a popular product. In the world of good communication and many, many alternatives this scenario is not sustainable. But what about TF, TF since we need to mention TF in every thread. Well, there must be something about these knives that makes people buy them even with claimed horrible quality and outrageous prices.
 
Barmoley said:
You can't increase prices and decrease quality. Or you could for a very short period of time on a popular product. In the world of good communication and many, many alternatives this scenario is not sustainable. But what about TF, TF since we need to mention TF in every thread. Well, there must be something about these knives that makes people buy them even with claimed horrible quality and outrageous prices.
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It’s a little incomprehensible… I saw a 180 Denka resale for 500…I thought that listed new for 400 from TF last year
 
Barmoley said:
You can't increase prices and decrease quality
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Of course not and hats not what i said; ignoring the last sentence which was half a joke.

HumbleHomeCook said:
He's not being greedy.
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He might not be and i hate judging but he is using aggressive marketing to move his stuff fast. And i seriously doubt the quality when i see a santoku made out of B1 steel with a fancy handle below 100$ (was it Hatsukokoro or ehatever hr was selling)
 
jaydee said:
Of course not and hats not what i said; ignoring the last sentence which was half a joke.


He might not be and i hate judging but he is using aggressive marketing to move his stuff fast. And i seriously doubt the quality when i see a santoku made out of B1 steel with a fancy handle below 100$ (was it Hatsukokoro or ehatever hr was selling)
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I've purchased a number of knives from Phil under his various sales. I got exactly what I expected relative to the given price point. The Hatusokoro that I got under $100 was a little rough on F&F but the steel and blade were good. He does these same sales with more expensive stuff. There's no quality difference in the sale product vs. full-price product.

This is a win for the consumer and drives competition. Nothing at all wrong with aggressive marketing. In the end, the market and consumer decides what is best.
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
I've purchased a number of knives from Phil under his various sales. I got exactly what I expected relative to the given price point. The Hatusokoro that I got under $100 was a little rough on F&F but the steel and blade were good. He does these same sales with more expensive stuff. There's no quality difference in the sale product vs. full-price product.

This is a win for the consumer and drives competition. Nothing at all wrong with aggressive marketing. In the end, the market and consumer decides what is best.
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I second that.
I've never seen quality problems on his knives, the real issue is that he makes me poorer at every deal 😅
 
jaydee said:
(Unless you do it like TF:lower quality and raise prices)
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Sorry I disagree. Generally speaking TF has improved their grinds over the years. And their HT is top shelf for AS and W#1, always has been. The only time things took a dive was after Yhuki and Gaku left to start Isamitsu. TF was clearly unaware of the departures until it was announced and Yhuki was one of the main (if not the main) blade smith at the factory. For a few months the blades were super chonk. The only F&F thats remained doggedly consistent is the poor bolster welding and Yo handle scale installation. I believe a third party does this work for both TF and Isamitsu.
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
I've purchased a number of knives from Phil under his various sales. I got exactly what I expected relative to the given price point. The Hatusokoro that I got under $100 was a little rough on F&F but the steel and blade were good. He does these same sales with more expensive stuff. There's no quality difference in the sale product vs. full-price product.

This is a win for the consumer and drives competition. Nothing at all wrong with aggressive marketing. In the end, the market and consumer decides what is best.
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His handle choice is often contentious and cheapens the knives IMO. No criticism of the blades though. No bait and switch there.
 
jaydee said:
Of course not and hats not what i said; ignoring the last sentence which was half a joke.


He might not be and i hate judging but he is using aggressive marketing to move his stuff fast. And i seriously doubt the quality when i see a santoku made out of B1 steel with a fancy handle below 100$ (was it Hatsukokoro or ehatever hr was selling)
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You are making a few baseless assumptions. Customers control knife prices, not the maker, not the distributer. There are no quality issues on the knives he sells, if he wants to cut his profits on some items for marketing purpose that is entirely up to him.
 
Corradobrit1 said:
Maybe it just tells you what sort of markup there is on other retailers storefronts.
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esoo said:
Or that he know how to manage his costs and inventory. More than one way to play the books.
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Both are probably true. Expect dealer markups to be upwards of 100% for many items… It’s not greed. This is an industry with exceptionally high inventory costs, and a pretty niche market. This is going to vary depending on the overhead of each shop. Part of the reason those California shops have “absurd” pricing. They don’t really have a choice given the location.
 
Logan A. said:
Both are probably true. Expect dealer markups to be upwards of 100% for many items… It’s not greed. This is an industry with exceptionally high inventory costs, and a pretty niche market. This is going to vary depending on the overhead of each shop. Part of the reason those California shops have “absurd” pricing. They don’t really have a choice given the location.
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Don’t forget to take various VAT / GST, customers, duties and inventory taxes into account too.
 
Logan A. said:
Both are probably true. Expect dealer markups to be upwards of 100% for many items… It’s not greed. This is an industry with exceptionally high inventory costs, and a pretty niche market. This is going to vary depending on the overhead of each shop. Part of the reason those California shops have “absurd” pricing. They don’t really have a choice given the location.
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Is Eating Tools based in California?

The other big knife shops here don't seem overpriced to me (JKI and Bernal).
 
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