Looking for a kind of specific 240mm Gyuto.

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Perverockstar

Perverockstar

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Hello people, I'm gonna need one larger knife for my daily work in the kitchen. So far, my main driver is a Makoto Kurasaki Ryusei 210mm. I love the feel of that knife's geometry. But it is not long enough and I'd like a longer lasting edge.

I'd like something similar but in 240mm, with a longer edge retention time and that it doesn't require a lot of time on the stones. Stainless is a must since, sometimes, my tasks get interrupted.

The main use for it would be filleting and small-dicing flank steak.

It should have no textured finish, like Tsuchime, Nashiji, Kurouchi or something like that.

Here are some of the knife's that I'm considering:

Akifusa SRS15
Nakamura Keishin Ginsan
Kei Kobayashi R2
Hitohira Kikuchiyo (Nakagawa) Ginsan
Kagekiyo Ginsan

A nice polished choil and spine are extremely welcome. Comfort and performance are the most important things I'm looking for.


Any experience with these?

Any other suggestions?

Thank you.
 
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Not really a suggestion but if you buy Kagekiyo Ginsan at Miura you can get 10% off by subscribing, then pay in yen to save more. I had the Kobayashi, if you like Makoto I'd imagine you'd love it too, very good F&F, absolutely laser, still one of my best knife in going through dense product. But beware it has some stiction going through produce with high water content.
https://miuraknives.com/japanese-kn...-aco-inox-ginsan-tam2124cm.html#/36-size-24cm
 
I have the Gesshin Kagero which I am pretty sure is a JKI branded Akifusa 240. It was one of my first good J knives. Over the years I have gotten stainless clad and SS knives from more prominant makers and thought that I would put my Kagero up for sale....

Then I take it to work and fall in love with it all over again. I like the SRS15 steel. It seems easier to sharpen than R2 and holds an edge just as long. The knife is a good balanced light middleweight that can handle denser product without wedging, but still feels sturdy on the board. Food release is sort of what you would expect from a fairly flat migaki finish knife. While I can's speak specifically about the Akifusa F&F, my Kagero has a comfortably polished spine and choil, but that might just be a JKI feature. They are very attentive to those sorts of things.

It is a good choice for the money!
 
The Nakagawa ginsan and the Kagekiyo ginsan should be very similar and both ground and finished outstandingly, with and excellent steel that has both a better retention time and is very easy to sharpen than your current knife. SRS15 and R2 will have an even better retention time, but don't feel as nice on the stones. But more important is that they're ground differently, so traditional laser vs. wide bevel, which comes down to your personal preference. Biggest factor however might be that the Nakagawa and the Kagekiyo have an effective edge length of around 225mm which might be too short for your needs?
 
blokey said:
Not really a suggestion but if you buy Kagekiyo Ginsan at Miura you can get 10% off by subscribing, then pay in yen to save more. I had the Kobayashi, if you like Makoto I'd imagine you'd love it too, very good F&F, absolutely laser, still one of my best knife in going through dense product. But beware it has some stiction going through produce with high water content.
https://miuraknives.com/japanese-kn...-aco-inox-ginsan-tam2124cm.html#/36-size-24cm
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Yeah I bought this exact knife, after discount it’s crazy cheap maybe $360ish? Very good deal. Website says 45-46mm tall but I requested a 49mm tall one and it wasn’t a problem. Great profile and the handle feels really nice in hand.
 
I think Ginsan will be nicer on the stones than VG7, but I don’t know if it will give you vastly more edge retention, probably just a bit. R2 and SRS15 will give a lot better retention, and neither take that much more time to sharpen, although like @EShin said, not they’re not particularly nice to sharpen if you care about feedback.

If you’re only slicing and dicing flank steak and not making much actual board contact, Ginsan may be the way to go. If you’re banging on hard plastic boards for hours at a time, R2 and SRS15 are nice options.

One note though, the Kei Kobayashi is THIN. I own one and I like it, but I’ve handled other similar lasers at retail stores, like the Shibata which is known for being thin and going by the eye test, the Kobayashi is thinner. Can you use it in a pro environment? Yes. But it’s not ideal, especially if there’s a chance of someone else picking up your knife.
 
kpham12 said:
I think Ginsan will be nicer on the stones than VG7, but I don’t know if it will give you vastly more edge retention, probably just a bit. R2 and SRS15 will give a lot better retention, and neither take that much more time to sharpen, although like @EShin said, not they’re not particularly nice to sharpen if you care about feedback.
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This has been my experience too and would be my advice. If you're looking at Nagakawa ginsan I have a Migoto Ginsan by Nagakawa that I can't say enough good things about. Nice height, great profile, sharpens nicely, thin convex grind. Also longer edge length than you normally find on Sakai's, somewhere around 235mm ish. Maybe something to consider if you can find one.
 
kpham12 said:
I think Ginsan will be nicer on the stones than VG7, but I don’t know if it will give you vastly more edge retention, probably just a bit. R2 and SRS15 will give a lot better retention, and neither take that much more time to sharpen, although like @EShin said, not they’re not particularly nice to sharpen if you care about feedback.

If you’re only slicing and dicing flank steak and not making much actual board contact, Ginsan may be the way to go. If you’re banging on hard plastic boards for hours at a time, R2 and SRS15 are nice options.

One note though, the Kei Kobayashi is THIN. I own one and I like it, but I’ve handled other similar lasers at retail stores, like the Shibata which is known for being thin and going by the eye test, the Kobayashi is thinner. Can you use it in a pro environment? Yes. But it’s not ideal, especially if there’s a chance of someone else picking up your knife.
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Problem I find when working with flank steak is that the edge needs stropping or a couple passes with the ceramic rod quite often, like with no other ingredient I work with. I'm wondering if a tougher steel may mitigate that.

I also found that Makoto has the Sakura series.
 
Perverockstar said:
Problem I find when working with flank steak is that the edge needs stropping or a couple passes with the ceramic rod quite often, like with no other ingredient I work with. I'm wondering if a tougher steel may mitigate that.

I also found that Makoto has the Sakura series.
Click to expand...
What grit/stone are you finishing your Makoto on?
 
Perverockstar said:
Problem I find when working with flank steak is that the edge needs stropping or a couple passes with the ceramic rod quite often, like with no other ingredient I work with. I'm wondering if a tougher steel may mitigate that.

I also found that Makoto has the Sakura series.
Click to expand...
I wonder if aogami super would be your thing. I’ve seen a couple AS kurosaki floating around, if it’s something you’d be interested in. I can’t say much about their AS specifically, but other iterations of it i quite enjoy. Edge holding after losing initial sharpness is excellent from what I’ve experienced.
 
Pie said:
I wonder if aogami super would be your thing. I’ve seen a couple AS kurosaki floating around, if it’s something you’d be interested in. I can’t say much about their AS specifically, but other iterations of it i quite enjoy. Edge holding after losing initial sharpness is excellent from what I’ve experienced.
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Stainless is a must. I'm in charge of a kitchen and my cutting tasks get interrupted regularly. I need something that can stay on the board, if you know what I mean.

I do own a Shiro Kamo AS Sujihiki which I have used for the described task. It was better than my Makoto for that, for sure. I still prefer it for cooked proteins.
 
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Depends on how long you need to be away from your knife Yoshikane SKD could be another good choice, semi-stainless, but really on the stainless side, same with the Nihei SLD, there’s one in BST.
 
Perverockstar said:
Problem I find when working with flank steak is that the edge needs stropping or a couple passes with the ceramic rod quite often, like with no other ingredient I work with. I'm wondering if a tougher steel may mitigate that.

I also found that Makoto has the Sakura series.
Click to expand...
Is the steak cooked with a hard crust?

If so, I think you should try the SRS15. SRS15 takes an aggressive edge and holds its bite very well going through crusty meats. R2 holds a similar edge, but may be more chippy. Also you can try stropping with diamond spray/compound. It cuts PM steels well and gives more bite to the edge than some other stropping compounds.

The Gesshin Kagero line has western handle 240 mm gyutos in stock or you could go with the Akifusa line or the one from Miura. Your profile says you’re based in Sweden, I know CleanCut has the wa handle Akifusa SRS15 line in stock if you’re near them, you can go check them out in person.
 
Zdp keeps a toothy meat edge forever and a day. Not the most stainless around, but fits the "interruptable" bill just fine. Sukenari makes a pretty good knife, clean, no textures, and not too expensive. The FRKZ version from JCK is a bit thinner than stock Sukenari in my limited experience.

They make both R2 and ZDP, I suspect both are similar to sharpen (a bit of a PITA to deburr, but worth it since you don't need frequent touch ups, can dedicate the time every now and then)

They run Sakai sizing, so 240=230 and 270=260mm
 
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captaincaed said:
Zdp keeps a toothy meat edge forever and a day. Not the most stainless around, but fits the "interruptable" bill just fine. Sukenari makes a pretty good knife, clean, no textures, and not too expensive. The FRKZ version from JCK is a bit thinner than stock Sukenari in my limited experience.

They make both R2 and ZDP, I suspect both are similar to sharpen (a bit of a PITA to deburr, but worth it since you don't need frequent touch ups, can dedicate the time every now and then)

They run Sakai sizing, so 240=230 and 270=260mm
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Sukenari and FRKZ from JCK are definitely very popular choice among professionals, know a lot of chefs like them.
 
fwiw, i have a kei kobayashi 240 sg2.
laser, full 240x52.
holds edge for long.
super slim but not especially delicate.
i really really like it.

i actually have a konosuke sumiiro 245mm (nihei, sld, 65hrc) BNIB that i could part with (i’m in sweden) – but i can’t sell it cheap :)

.
 
kpham12 said:
Is the steak cooked with a hard crust?

If so, I think you should try the SRS15. SRS15 takes an aggressive edge and holds its bite very well going through crusty meats. R2 holds a similar edge, but may be more chippy. Also you can try stropping with diamond spray/compound. It cuts PM steels well and gives more bite to the edge than some other stropping compounds.

The Gesshin Kagero line has western handle 240 mm gyutos in stock or you could go with the Akifusa line or the one from Miura. Your profile says you’re based in Sweden, I know CleanCut has the wa handle Akifusa SRS15 line in stock if you’re near them, you can go check them out in person.
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The steak is completely raw.

Yes, I saw the Akifusa at CleanCut's webpage when I started to look :) . It is one of my considerations.

I liked also that it seems to be really nicely finished.
 
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Kanehide TK
 

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