Need a new gyuto

Miura knives
Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Reegan Said said:
Decided between

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tana...uto-240mm-with-custom-octagonal-ebony-handle/

And

http://www.knivesandstones.com/shinko-seilan-gyuto-240mm-ku-aogami-super-by-shiro-kamo/

Which would better suit the needs of a home cook looking to enter the professional scene? Will also be picking up a king 1k/6k stone to resharpen.
Click to expand...

I would probably get the blue 2 steel one because its tougher than blue super. so it chips out much less. For carbon steels i think blue 2 is the best steel there is. its the best balance of properties that you want in a blade imo. I also have several blue super blades, and i once hacked up a few beer cans with my kurosaki and it eventually chipped out "macroscopically" to say the least. but i was very impressed. and i am very hard to impress.

for the most ease of use and the least headache for the user i think stainless is preferred though. by a factor of 10 or so.

I think the company MAC makes very good stainless knives, these are true users/workhorses. I'm fairly certain they use aus-8 steel for almost everything. and if you look this steel up you will get the impression that this is crap steel. and you would be right, but the actual quality of the blade is mostly determined by the makers heat treating methods. then the actual steel. and no one makes aus8 better than mac imo.

I did a test with a mac santoku and a kuroskai santok in r2, the mac was cryoed from the factory (the "superior steel"), i cut cardboard, checked sharpness after half was cut and cut some more until i had no cardboard left.
i cut cardboard slices for about 1 hour.

and my findings was that the cryoed aus-8 and the r2 lost sharpness at about the same rate ( i was 0,0% surprised) . maybe the the r2 was 15-20% better overall. but in the end after the test was done the r2 blade had hundreds of microchips and was unusable, and the aus8 had just gotten dull, no folding over nor chips. and it took me about maybe 2-5 minutes to sharpen the aus8 and maybe 20-30 minutes to restore the r2 edge because of all the chips. so whats really better here?? i'd say its a draw.

this one use the cryoed steel that is about 60hrc or so.
https://www.macknife.com/collection...onal-series-8-chefs-knife-with-dimples-mth-80
only that one and this one https://www.macknife.com/collection...onal-series-6-1-2-santoku-with-dimples-msk-65 is cryoed (aka superior steel) from this series. the rest are the 57-58hrc type, and its also good imo. better than one might think.

MTH-80_1024x1024.jpg

MSK-65_1024x1024.jpg



i have had the dimpled santoku and used it for over a year opening all cardboard boxes and plastic containers and whatnot that entered my house. all of them.
and in the end it had only 3 minimal chips in the edge and it was also still sharp. go figure.

I have gotten 2 guys at my job to get the santoku, and they were both very resistant for a long time. and now when they both have it they basically only use that knife!
They wonder why i didnt tell them about this before :) and i'm like i fukn told you for a year! lol :) i basically had to force them to get it. but now they are very happy.

and while all macs look kinda blocky and weird they are very ergonomic and well balanced.

did i derail the tread now?? I guess i did.
 
none unfortunately :) i think they are good knives and they are quite cheap so i have no problem recommending them. much better than globals for instance. much.
 
Thinking about the original question, inferno might have a really good suggestion here. If you're looking to get into a professional kitchen, the MAC might be a good low-investment but quality cutter. You never know how your fellow coworkers will treat your knife if they get their hands on it. If you're locked in on your original suggestions, maybe consider the lower-priced option? I've read positive reviews for both of those knives though the Tanaka gets more love more often.
 
Mate, just buy the Tanaka from James and get on with your Japanese knife discovery tour. Better still, if you are in Sydney, visit his store and let him guide you.

All your other purchase options are in the Northern hemisphere. There’s plenty of time for that later on, once you have a better idea of what you like.

Good luck!
 
Last edited:
i think tanaka is better if you compare to shinko knife..
 
Hi -

For what it's worth, I think the Tanaka is a superior choice.
That being said, within that price point, I might recommend looking at Wakui. James stocks some good knives from Wakui in White #2, which is a little bit easier of a steel to work with by some accounts.http://www.knivesandstones.com/wakui/
 
Elliot said:
Hi -

For what it's worth, I think the Tanaka is a superior choice.
That being said, within that price point, I might recommend looking at Wakui. James stocks some good knives from Wakui in White #2, which is a little bit easier of a steel to work with by some accounts.http://www.knivesandstones.com/wakui/
Click to expand...
+1 agree white steel is much easier to sharpen.
 
Elliot said:
Hi -

For what it's worth, I think the Tanaka is a superior choice.
That being said, within that price point, I might recommend looking at Wakui. James stocks some good knives from Wakui in White #2, which is a little bit easier of a steel to work with by some accounts.http://www.knivesandstones.com/wakui/
Click to expand...
Be aware that the Wakui tsuchime (hammered) is a great workhorse knife. Much thicker than Tanaka Nashiji but with excellent food release. Did I mention it's a great workhorse with excellent food release?

IIRC, some versions of Wakui are said to be fairly thin. I don't know whether this applies to the non tsuchime version at KnS.
 
Last edited:
I'm not a professional cook, and never have been. But to me, how someone in a professional kitchen would even consider a carbon knife is a mystery to me. Sure, if I'm the sushi chef on display at some truly up-market place, I can afford to take my time, look like I'm meditating, and meticulously wipe down my knife after every single cut. But, as a line cook in a professional environment, when all hell breaks loose every now and then? Sorry, I just can't see it.

Even as a hobby cook, I find that my carbon knives are a pain. Sure, they are pretty. They cut really, really well. They are easy to sharpen. And they literally rust before my eyes, while I'm stirring the soup I have on simmer. I cannot put down a carbon knife for even ten minutes after using it without wiping it down first, especially after cutting something acidic. If I do, when I pick the knife up again, I can see the rust that's grown while I was stirring my soup.

In a professional environment, surely, I would think that this doesn't make sense? Doesn't practicality trump fundamentalism? I mean, it's not as if semi-stainless knifes are horrible to use or cut badly, is it?

I'd be keen to hear from professional chefs who use carbon knives, and how they manage to live with them. And why they think that this is worth their while.

Any takers?
 
Michi said:
I'm not a professional cook, and never have been. But to me, how someone in a professional kitchen would even consider a carbon knife is a mystery to me. Sure, if I'm the sushi chef on display at some truly up-market place, I can afford to take my time, look like I'm meditating, and meticulously wipe down my knife after every single cut. But, as a line cook in a professional environment, when all hell breaks loose every now and then? Sorry, I just can't see it.

Even as a hobby cook, I find that my carbon knives are a pain. Sure, they are pretty. They cut really, really well. They are easy to sharpen. And they literally rust before my eyes, while I'm stirring the soup I have on simmer. I cannot put down a carbon knife for even ten minutes after using it without wiping it down first, especially after cutting something acidic. If I do, when I pick the knife up again, I can see the rust that's grown while I was stirring my soup.

In a professional environment, surely, I would think that this doesn't make sense? Doesn't practicality trump fundamentalism? I mean, it's not as if semi-stainless knifes are horrible to use or cut badly, is it?

I'd be keen to hear from professional chefs who use carbon knives, and how they manage to live with them. And why they think that this is worth their while.

Any takers?
Click to expand...

Rust or just patina?
 
Michi said:
I'm not a professional cook, and never have been. But to me, how someone in a professional kitchen would even consider a carbon knife is a mystery to me. Sure, if I'm the sushi chef on display at some truly up-market place, I can afford to take my time, look like I'm meditating, and meticulously wipe down my knife after every single cut. But, as a line cook in a professional environment, when all hell breaks loose every now and then? Sorry, I just can't see it.

Even as a hobby cook, I find that my carbon knives are a pain. Sure, they are pretty. They cut really, really well. They are easy to sharpen. And they literally rust before my eyes, while I'm stirring the soup I have on simmer. I cannot put down a carbon knife for even ten minutes after using it without wiping it down first, especially after cutting something acidic. If I do, when I pick the knife up again, I can see the rust that's grown while I was stirring my soup.

In a professional environment, surely, I would think that this doesn't make sense? Doesn't practicality trump fundamentalism? I mean, it's not as if semi-stainless knifes are horrible to use or cut badly, is it?

I'd be keen to hear from professional chefs who use carbon knives, and how they manage to live with them. And why they think that this is worth their while.

Any takers?
Click to expand...

I use stainless, semi-stainless, and carbon for different tasks and moods. If I'm going to be running around a lot where I won't have time to baby the knife or monitor my coworkers (ab)using it, then I'll use semi-stainless. If I'm chopping bones, lobster shells, frozen stuff, high acid, etc then it's stainless all the way.
I generally only break out full carbon for long prep sessions where I will be chopping stuff for a few hours relatively uninterrupted. And for very reactive carbon I will restablish a patina every time I sharpen it. Boiling delimer works really well, but try not to spill it on a stainless steel table. As far as wiping the blade every couple of strokes, I don't have time for that. Sometimes there's a little rust at the end of the day, but I just hit it with a scotchbrite pad and go home.
 
LIKE

Thanks for the explanation. That pretty much matches what I expected. When there is time and no pressure, use the knife that performs best and that you like best. Otherwise, go for the pragmatic choice.
 
Not sure. The biggest problem seems to be acidic food and forgetting to wipe the knife down. Faint hints of rust appear in under ten minutes.

It’s not a big deal. Very superficial only. But annoying nevertheless. Sometimes, someone is at the door or calls on the phone. Makes it easy to forget to wipe the blade…
 
_HH_ said:
Just to throw another option in the ring - have you thought about the Tanaka Ginsan?

Same grind, same nashiji finish and pretty much the same price, but with the benefit of a decent stainless steel which may be more accommodating in a pro environment.

http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-ginsan-nashiji-gyuto-240mm-lite/
Click to expand...

+1 I think picking a (semi) stainless is the better choice overall and Ginsan might be a fun steel to work on. This knife gets good reviews but I cannot speak to it personally. Ginsan as a steel has the reputation as an easier-to-sharpen stainless that can sharpen up well.
 
+1 to Tanaka G. Great knife for the environment the OP described. (Anyone remember the OP?)

Michi - I would hit the "Agree" button if we had one. I'm sure it's not the first time, just the first time that I remember....:cool:
 
I have owned both knives and would have to say I like the Tanaka better. However, I’m also a chef and would say if I was to only get one knife purchase in that price point I would probably go with the Ginsan as suggested above or another great option would be the Kaeru from jns.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top